Muslims can't get saved

[Green Gaia]

Baha`i please tell me if its a religion of its own or believe in all religions?

The Baha'i Faith is it's own religion. You can learn more about it here.

 

[Popeyesays]

Baha`i please tell me if its a religion of its own or believe in all religions?

It is its own religion; however, it acknowledges that the revelatory religions before it and to come in the future are all from the same Divine Source - God. We believe that each of the Prophets has come to renew God's Covenant with man.
www.bahai.org

Regards,
Scott

 

[michel]

I would like to ask how one becomes a Born Again?
and who is the Holy Ghost?

Hi Yasin,

As I notice that this is your first time on here, I thought I would take the opportunity to Welcome you to Religious Forums;



I hope that you would feel able to introduce yourself to the other members of the forum, by posting on:- Are you new to ReligiousForums.com?



Please feel free to ask questions, if you have any. You might like to check out our article with links for our newer members; from there, there is also a link to the forum rules which you ought to look at.

I hope you will grow to enjoy this forum, and look forward to seeing your posts.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

 

[Solon]

I think this topic, started aeons ago by the look of it, is entirely froth. As nobody has the slightest clue if salavation exists, it's all pretty pointless. I would say though, that for the Christians to insist they are are going to be saved, and no one else, reeks of arrogance and elitism. And what are we to suppose is being saved ? your mortal soul. There is nothing to save, only possibly recycled.

' The soul is not born, nor does it die. That self has not come from anywhere, has not become anyone.
Unborn, changeless, primeval, everlasting, that self is not slain when the body is slain.'

Katha Upanishad

 

[nutshell]

I think this topic, started aeons ago by the look of it, is entirely froth. As nobody has the slightest clue if salavation exists, it's all pretty pointless. I would say though, that for the Christians to insist they are are going to be saved, and no one else, reeks of arrogance and elitism. And what are we to suppose is being saved ? your mortal soul. There is nothing to save, only possibly recycled.

' The soul is not born, nor does it die. That self has not come from anywhere, has not become anyone.
Unborn, changeless, primeval, everlasting, that self is not slain when the body is slain.'

Katha Upanishad

Actually, I know salvation exists and that it comes from Jesus Christ. ALL WILL HAVE THE CHANCE TO ACCEPT THE SAVIOR. God has provided away and His plan includes everyone, even Muslims. Being saved means we are able to return to our Heavenly Father's presense, which we could not do without Christ because we are not pure. Your quote from Upanishad does not contradict what I've said, so I guess we agree.

 

[Solon]

Well, do tell how you know, apart from holy books. I would like to see something tangible, some empirical evidence, words are just words. My quote suggests that the soul is free and boundless, its fate is not left to the whim of God. it is quite independent and belongs to the cosmos. Of course interpretations will mingle and mix, and seperate again.

S

 

[nutshell]

Well, do tell how you know, apart from holy books. I would like to see something tangible, some empirical evidence, words are just words. My quote suggests that the soul is free and boundless, its fate is not left to the whim of God. it is quite independent and belongs to the cosmos. Of course interpretations will mingle and mix, and seperate again.

S

It is not something you come to know through empirical evidence. It is a witness you receive through the spirit of revelation that comes after one has faith.

There are many things we "know" without empirical evidence. I'll give you an example by asking you a question, Solon. Do you know what salt tastes like?

 

[standing_alone]

It is not something you come to know through empirical evidence. It is a witness you receive through the spirit of revelation that comes after one has faith.

Well, if religious beliefs have no empiracle evidence to support their version of what happens after we die (one only believes through "faith"), then shouldn't none of them go around saying that their faith is the only way and everyone who doesn't have "faith" in their religion isn't going to be saved. In my opinion, when someone believes something that has no empiracle evidence to support it, they shouldn't claim it as the truth (and then condemn others when they don't believe their claims). If you can't prove to me that your "life after death/religion" is correct without empiracle evidence (not the whole "it's a matter of believing") I have no reason to believe what you say. Anyone can make claims that make no sense and say, "All you have to do is believe", but it doesn't mean they carry any merit.

 

[nutshell]

The evidence comes after you have faith and it is as real as any other thing you can experience.

No one has answered my question yet. Do you know what salt tastes like?

 

[standing_alone]

The evidence comes after you have faith and it is as real as any other thing you can experience.

Is it really that the evidence comes after you have faith? Or is it that you try to find evidence to support your faith?

Until anyone gives me legitimate, empirical reasons as why to believe their faith, I'm not buying.

No one has answered my question yet. Do you know what salt tastes like?

I fail to see how this relates to this topic. I can see, feel, smell, and taste that salt exists. Someone can show me the salt, let me taste it and feel it. Yes, I know what salt tastes like because it is there to taste. I fail to get what you're trying to say. Someone can't show me their "afterlife" and let me see, hear, taste, touch, or smell it. Someone can give me legitimate evidence to make me believe in the existance of salt. Nobody can do the same about an "afterlife."

 

[nutshell]

Is it really that the evidence comes after you have faith? Or is it that you try to find evidence to support your faith?

Until anyone gives me legitimate, empirical reasons as why to believe their faith, I'm not buying.

Here is a scripture I believe in:
6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith• is things which are hoped• for and not• seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness• until after the trial• of your faith.

I don't look for the evidence, I have experienced it. This is something you cannot understand because you have never experienced it, and never will unless you have faith. That's the whole point of this life---learning to trust in something above the physical world. If there was evidence of this, it'd be a pretty easy lesson I guess, not allowing us to grow and reach our potential.

I fail to see how this relates to this topic. I can see, feel, smell, and taste that salt exists. Someone can show me the salt, let me taste it and feel it. Yes, I know what salt tastes like because it is there to taste. I fail to get what you're trying to say. Someone can't show me their "afterlife" and let me see, hear, taste, touch, or smell it. Someone can give me legitimate evidence to make me believe in the existance of salt. Nobody can do the same about an "afterlife."

Of course you fail to see how this relates to the topic. You fail to see a lot. Let my give you a hypothetical situation. Lets say I blindfold you, tie your hands behind your back, plug your nose and take away all your senses except taste. I put salt on your tongue...do you know what it tastes like? Can you please describe it for me?

 

[standing_alone]

Here is a scripture I believe in:
6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith• is things which are hoped• for and not• seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness• until after the trial• of your faith.

I don't look for the evidence, I have experienced it. This is something you cannot understand because you have never experienced it, and never will unless you have faith. That's the whole point of this life---learning to trust in something above the physical world. If there was evidence of this, it'd be a pretty easy lesson I guess, not allowing us to grow and reach our potential.

Please, tell me about your experiences. Many people have experienced many things supernatural, but it doesn't mean they were supernatural and their minds weren't just playing tricks on them. I used to have faith in God, so don't tell me I never experienced faith. I just found that living a life for a false hope made my life meaningless and there was no reason to believe in any of these fables anymore. You can quote scriptures all you want, but they mean nothing to me. Talk is cheap, as they say. I feel that I'm "growing" quite fine without a god and I am reaching my potential quite well without one. I don't need a god in able to accomplish things.

You fail to see a lot.

I fail to see alot? Why? Because I refuse to accept something as "fact" without any empiracal evidence to back it up? So far I have only failed to see why I should accept your view on the "afterlife." Could you please explain to me the other things I fail to see? Or are you just making a generalization about me since I don't buy into religion?

Let my give you a hypothetical situation. Lets say I blindfold you, tie your hands behind your back, plug your nose and take away all your senses except taste. I put salt on your tongue...do you know what it tastes like? Can you please describe it for me?

Well, since the sense of smell and taste work together, my ability of taste would not be at its best. More than likely, however, I would be able to taste the salt. Can I describe the taste of salt? I don't know, salty, bitter. It's hard to explain taste in great detail. But I would know how salt tastes because I've tasted it before and I know that salt exists because it's something I can touch, taste, smell, and see. It's something that can be proven to me. I can't touch, taste, feel, hear, or see your idea of an "afterlife." You can't take me and show me your "afterlife." You can only tell me about it and make claims about it. You can show me the salt. And that's the difference between the two.

 

[Popeyesays]

I can't touch, taste, feel, hear, or see your idea of an "afterlife." You can't take me and show me your "afterlife." You can only tell me about it and make claims about it. You can show me the salt. And that's the difference between the two.

"How can mine eye, which hath no faculty to perceive itself, claim to have discerned Thine Essence, and how can mine heart, already powerless to apprehend the significance of its own potentialities, pretend to have comprehended Thy nature? How can I claim to have known Thee, when the entire creation is bewildered by Thy mystery, and how can I confess not to have known Thee, when, lo, the whole universe proclaimeth Thy Presence and testifieth to Thy truth? The portals of Thy grace have throughout eternity been open, and the means of access unto Thy Presence made available, unto all created things, and the revelations of Thy matchless Beauty have at all times been imprinted upon the realities of all beings, visible and invisible. Yet, notwithstanding this most gracious 64 favor, this perfect and consummate bestowal, I am moved to testify that Thy court of holiness and glory is immeasurably exalted above the knowledge of all else besides Thee, and the mystery of Thy Presence is inscrutable to every mind except Thine own. No one except Thyself can unravel the secret of Thy nature, and naught else but Thy transcendental Essence can grasp the reality of Thy unsearchable being. How vast the number of those heavenly and all-glorious beings who, in the wilderness of their separation from Thee, have wandered all the days of their lives, and failed in the end to find Thee! How great the multitude of the sanctified and immortal souls who were lost and bewildered while seeking in the desert of search to behold Thy face!"
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 63)

 

[standing_alone]

"How can mine eye, which hath no faculty to perceive itself, claim to have discerned Thine Essence, and how can mine heart, already powerless to apprehend the significance of its own potentialities, pretend to have comprehended Thy nature? How can I claim to have known Thee, when the entire creation is bewildered by Thy mystery, and how can I confess not to have known Thee, when, lo, the whole universe proclaimeth Thy Presence and testifieth to Thy truth? The portals of Thy grace have throughout eternity been open, and the means of access unto Thy Presence made available, unto all created things, and the revelations of Thy matchless Beauty have at all times been imprinted upon the realities of all beings, visible and invisible. Yet, notwithstanding this most gracious 64 favor, this perfect and consummate bestowal, I am moved to testify that Thy court of holiness and glory is immeasurably exalted above the knowledge of all else besides Thee, and the mystery of Thy Presence is inscrutable to every mind except Thine own. No one except Thyself can unravel the secret of Thy nature, and naught else but Thy transcendental Essence can grasp the reality of Thy unsearchable being. How vast the number of those heavenly and all-glorious beings who, in the wilderness of their separation from Thee, have wandered all the days of their lives, and failed in the end to find Thee! How great the multitude of the sanctified and immortal souls who were lost and bewildered while seeking in the desert of search to behold Thy face!"
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 63)

Could you please clarify that for me? I have trouble understanding that (I "fail to see alot" ). I hope I'm not coming off as rude. I don't mean to. I'd just like a clarification. I feel so stupid. :bonk:

 

[nutshell]

Please, tell me about your experiences. Many people have experienced many things supernatural, but it doesn't mean they were supernatural and their minds weren't just playing tricks on them. I used to have faith in God, so don't tell me I never experienced faith. I just found that living a life for a false hope made my life meaningless and there was no reason to believe in any of these fables anymore. You can quote scriptures all you want, but they mean nothing to me. Talk is cheap, as they say. I feel that I'm "growing" quite fine without a god and I am reaching my potential quite well without one. I don't need a god in able to accomplish things.

I fail to see alot? Why? Because I refuse to accept something as "fact" without any empiracal evidence to back it up? So far I have only failed to see why I should accept your view on the "afterlife." Could you please explain to me the other things I fail to see? Or are you just making a generalization about me since I don't buy into religion?.

I shouldn't have made the comment about you failing to see many things. It was a generalization and I'm sorry. I beleive people can progress without God, but there is a limit. I believe I can progress until I can someday become like God. How far do you think you can progress?

Well, since the sense of smell and taste work together, my ability of taste would not be at its best. More than likely, however, I would be able to taste the salt. Can I describe the taste of salt? I don't know, salty, bitter. It's hard to explain taste in great detail. But I would know how salt tastes because I've tasted it before and I know that salt exists because it's something I can touch, taste, smell, and see. It's something that can be proven to me. I can't touch, taste, feel, hear, or see your idea of an "afterlife." You can't take me and show me your "afterlife." You can only tell me about it and make claims about it. You can show me the salt. And that's the difference between the two.

My experiences are special to me alone and would not mean anything to anyone else. We must each, as individuals, experience the truth that comes through having faith. You said salt is salty...you can't use the same word when describing something. You also said salt is bitter, but that description is not all inclusive of what salt tastes like. What I'm trying to say is one cannot completely know something without experiencing it and one cannot share that experience with others, they must experience themselves as well.

Obviously, we are on opposite ends of the spiritual belief spectrum. I wish you well in your way and will stick to mine.

 

[KirbyFan101]

It is not something you come to know through empirical evidence. It is a witness you receive through the spirit of revelation that comes after one has faith.

There are many things we "know" without empirical evidence. I'll give you an example by asking you a question, Solon. Do you know what salt tastes like?

Absolutely pointless analogy. There is 0 proof for anything you or your church claims, hence, you have no logical groundings to state you are certain of your afterlife. Working around this basic fact is unavoidable, try as you might.

If you are too brainwashed by your own daily ritual to acknowledge doubt or probability, well, I look forward to the expression on your face when you pass and see Mohommed at the pearly gates.

 

[nutshell]

Absolutely pointless analogy. There is 0 proof for anything you or your church claims, hence, you have no logical groundings to state you are certain of your afterlife. Working around this basic fact is unavoidable, try as you might.

If you are too brainwashed by your own daily ritual to acknowledge doubt or probability, well, I look forward to the expression on your face when you pass and see Mohommed at the pearly gates.

Do you reserve your attacks on faith just for my religion or do you spread your cheer to all? Not having "proof" is the whole point. I don't have the time to explain it to you right now.

By the way, the analogy is not pointless. You just choose not to see the value in it. I suppose you believe religion is a crutch.

Do you know what "brainwashed" really means?

Was your pearly gates comment really necessary or are you just feeling particularly vicious today?

 

[standing_alone]

It was a generalization and I'm sorry.

Apology accepted.

How far do you think you can progress?

I have no idea how far I can progress, but I'm sure I can progress just as far as anybody else, regardless of their religious beliefs, secular beliefs, morals, and/or values. How far can you progress because you believe in god? I don't think any of us can measure how far we can progress; we just need to progress and become better people.

You said salt is salty...you can't use the same word when describing something. You also said salt is bitter, but that description is not all inclusive of what salt tastes like.

I understand that describing the taste of salt as "bitter" isn't all inclusive of what salt tastes like. If I knew the words to describe the taste I would. Taste is a hard thing to describe. Describe to me then, how salt tastes.

What I'm trying to say is one cannot completely know something without experiencing it and one cannot share that experience with others, they must experience themselves as well.

I agree, one cannot completely know something without experiencing it. But many claim to have experienced something (ghosts, aliens/alien spacecraft, etc.), but it doesn't mean that the reality of the event they experienced is the same as the beliefs and perceptions they took away from it.

Obviously, we are on opposite ends of the spiritual belief spectrum. I wish you well in your way and will stick to mine.

Definately opposite ends. I wish you well in your ways as well, just as I will stick to my ways and hope they go well. So far it's worked for me.

 

[Yasin]

In response to From The Heart,

Truly from the heart.......beautiful........Teachings of that which i can relate to.....First of all let me identify myself to you, i am not the hater of Jesus Christ (pbuh) contrary to that i love him and have a great amount of respect for him as a Prophet of God but not as God.......I agree with every thing you have said about obtaining the forgiveness of God through repentance.....But one thing i can not accept is concept of God......If poseble i would like to carry on this discussion, on the Holy Ghost.....What would be your response if i said that the Holy Ghost is not what your used to but a Prophet that was prophesied by Jesus (pbuh).....Hope to hear from you....Yasin:bounce

 

[Solon]

It is not something you come to know through empirical evidence. It is a witness you receive through the spirit of revelation that comes after one has faith.

There are many things we "know" without empirical evidence. I'll give you an example by asking you a question, Solon. Do you know what salt tastes like?

Sure I know what salt tastes like, and the brain stores the memory of the taste, so when I use salt again, I know what it tastes like. If my memory didn't like the taste of Salt, it would tell me not to use it. That's pretty empirical to me.

S