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Muslims can't get saved

Lady Marva

New Member
There is no concept of salvation in Islam. At least not as Christians view salvation in terms of accepting Jesus Christ as Savior, having faith and belief in Him as the Son of God, which means the soul going to Heaven to be with Jesus and God upon demise of the earthly body.

muslims sort of earn points with giving to charities they are told to give to, praying the proscribed number of times in the proscribed direction every day (which leads to the question of why muslims think allah only exists in Mecca; kinda limits their god), eat the food they are told to, obey their leaders, etc. There is no guarantee of getting to heaven (real nice religion. The god keeps you waiting till you die to know what kind of a grade you got. The ultimate fear factor keeps the masses bowing) EXCEPT by committing the ultimate self-sacrifice when infidels need to be killed.

Thus you get the suiciders. That's their one and only best shot of getting the rivers flowing with wine and all the virgins. Well, the men do. Beats having to marry some smelly hairy unknown girl in dressed up in a funeral shroud.

Wonder what the black widow women suiciders get. Or is it only men allowed into the islamic version of heaven?
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
Did you start this just to bash muslims? I think, by looking at your post, that you are a bigot. I won't list the many things wrong with Christianity (as there are with all religions), because that would be counter-productive to my cause.
 

_salam_

Member
To Lady Marva,

Your right in Islam we don't accept salvation the way that Christians accept it. I will offer you some quotes from "The Complete Idiots Guide To Understanding Islam" written by Yahiya Emerick, so that you can better understand how we are "saved" as Muslims.

"Islam does not accept the Christian idea that you need to ask a priest to forgive you or pray to a Son of God for deliverance. Even more incomprehensible to Muslims is the Christian belief of being "saved" in which a person who asks Jesus into his or her heart automatically goes to heaven no matter what the person does later in life, good or bad. Islam teaches that you save or damn yourself every day through your belief, or lack of it, your actions, good or bad, and your overall record. God's mercy will play a part on Judgement Day because no human can ever hope to be perfect enough to earn heaven. God, in His mercy, will forgive much and overlook much, but this doesn't absolve us of our responsibility to try to be as virtuous as possible. The Muslim is taught that there is an open line from each of us to God, and when we pray for forgiveness we must each ask God ourselves, every day, until the day we leave this earth."
"Our sins, if we don't repent of them, will be held against us. Likewise, good deeds are considered the hallmark of our true faith. Every time we do a good or bad deed it is recorded with God and will be a part of our record come Judgement Day. Islam, however, does not teach that you earn your way to heaven, as some Christian theologians have charged. Salvation in Islam is founded on believing in and surrendering your will to God and nothing more. Avoiding sin and leading a righteous life are merely proofs of your faith. A Muslim would respond to the false accusation that Muslims get to heaven by deeds by quoting the Apostle Paul who said, "Faith without works is dead." So the emphasis on good deeds in Islam is for another, more noble purpose."
"Christianity teaches that people are already doomed to Hell unless they believe that God's son died for their sins going back to the sin of Adam and Eve. Islam, however, does not teach that people are born sinful. Rather, Islam teaches that we are all born spotless and that throughout out lives we can do either good or bad based on the interplay of our fitrah (which means your inner nature or moral compass. It steers you to seek out religious experiences and ultimately directs you to accept the existence of God), intelligence, and God's revealed guidance versus satan and our lowly animal desires. Salvation in Islam comes from making the choice while alive to accept Allah and mold your life according to the way of life He has established. That life is based on morality, daily and annual rituals, and repentance for your weakness or misdeeds."

You said that you think that Allah exsists only in Mecca. This is wrong, Allah exsists everywhere. The reason we pray towards Mecca is because the Kabba is there. Muslims do not worship the Kabba however, we pray towards the Kabba because we believe it was the origonal house built for God, built by Abraham. So it has a symbolic meaning kinda like the cross does in Christianity. Also you make it sound as if praying to God often and following the rules that God wants you to, is a bad thing. If praying and following the rules that God gave you is a bad thing to you I would say you have a long way to go in your relationship with God.

You also stated "EXCEPT by committing the ultimate self-sacrifice when infidels need to be killed. Thus you get the suiciders. That's their one and only best shot of getting the rivers flowing with wine and all the virgins. Well, the men do." Let me just bust out some quotes from the same book again.

"The rules for the conduct of war in Islam forbid the killing of noncombatants. The Prophet Muhammad never allowed any Muslim soldier to harm women, children, or the innocent. The trouble with bombing a bus or library is that soldiers are not the ones who are killed. Thus, the people who engage in this type of attack are going against the teachings of Islam. According to the Qur'an, "If you kill a life unjustly it is as if you killed all life." (Qur'an 5:32) Suicide bombers are also guilty of ignoring Islamic teachings, because suicide is forbidden in Islam. The Prophet Muhammad said, "Whoever kills himself with a weapon will have that weapon in his hand, and will kill himself forever in the fire of Hell," and yet this is exactly what these men do when they detonate bombs strapped to their bodies. Are there some religious leaders in that part of the world who condone these actions? Yes, there are, but remember that they, too, have been shaped by the same sense of injustice as the rest of the people there. Muslim scholars in other parts of the world condemn these actions as being against the letter and the spirit of the religion."
"So we can say that there is no such thing as terrorism allowed in Islam. harming innocents is forbidden in Islam, so those who engage in this type of activity cannot rightly call upon religion to justify their actions. Be that as it may, there are some misguided Muslims with legitimate grievances who seem to do everything in the world to make themselves, and Islam, look bad in their pursuit of redress. They say they are doing jihad; however, in reality they often break all the rules for carrying out one. Even as Christianity and Judaism have sometimes been wrongfully used to justify the actions of extremists, a small minority of Muslims is doing the same with Islam. The overwhelming majority of Muslims do not support, condone, or engage in such reprehensible acts."

And yes women get to go to Heaven just as the men.
 
First off, thank you Salam for setting that one straight, misinformation and generalizations are not adequite and need to be pointed out, like you did. Next, to the original purpose of the thread, i pose this: There is no concept of Christian salvation found in any other major religions that I know of. Although different denominations disagree, most Protestant theology is based on the concept of one-time justification (being fully redeemed with God) and then ongoing sanctification (becoming more like Jesus). In most religions, "salvation" entails becoming a follower/believer of the faith, but does not guarantee a free ride after that. In fact, it is usually required that the person follow the teachings of the religion or else they will NOT be saved/redeemed/rewarded what have you. Christianity prides itself as being unique in that regard, but it is unfair to say a religion is inferior because it does not have a get out of jail free card. In fact, I would say that a religion is BETTER if it doesn't have one because it forces the follower to be that much more obedient to the religion, which is for the most part a benefit to society.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Some have asked me why we don't just delete posts like the OP. _salam_'s post is why we don't. It is generally much more effective to have lies and misunderstandings shown for what they are and the truth to be told. Keep up the good work.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
misinformation and generalizations are not adequite and need to be pointed out,

After saying this why do you go on to make a generalization?

Accepting Jesus Christ does bring redemption, but to be saved one must be repentanent(sp) of their sins and must ask forgiveness for them. You must be truly sorry for what you have done wrong in life. Deeds reflect faith, how can you be a faithful and true follower of Christ if you do not at least try to live by his principles, you cannot call yourself christian while gunning down people, or stealing, or hateing people.

I have never been to a church where they taught that once you accept Jesus you can then go cavorting about doing evil and hateing and hurting people with no worries
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
"I have never been to a church where they taught that once you accept Jesus you can then go cavorting about doing evil and hateing and hurting people with no worries"


its really surprising. a lot of people who identify themselves as christian go to church (many christians dont too) and they act all lovely on sunday. but then for the rest of the days, they are not really....christian. im on this jesus forum, and they dont even act christian, that is, acting how Jesus did, how jesus was loving and accepting. all they do is denounce other religions and cause hate and animosity.

is that what the world needs? no.

great post salem. i need to get a copy of idiots guide to hinduism. yes, its pathetic. but its hard to get an objective view on things nowadays.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
It is sad that alot of people who identify themselves as christians do not live a christian life.

im on this jesus forum, and they dont even act christian, that is, acting how Jesus did, how jesus was loving and accepting. all they do is denounce other religions and cause hate and animosity

could you give me this forum site please.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
www.freejesus.com

specifically: http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5282

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5175 <<Quran and Satan>>

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5339

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5277

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5291 <<contradictions of the quran>> lol, they shouldnt talk, the bible is filled with contradictions. hypocrites.


Jesus taught against hate and taught love. this, this is not love. this is hate.

ive been on that forum as gerani. im going on there on and off now. it just annoyed me when one of them remarked that buddhist chanting will be heard in hell. oh lord. it pains me, it really does. i just want to yell and stop them, but i cannot, no one can. people will just remain people.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
oh, just to add. i dont label all christians like so. i have many christian friends and they are... christian... at least good people.
 

Lenon

New Member
It would be good to also correct the fact that Catholics do not ask a priest for forgiveness. Such a statement is ignorant. Catholics (according to my primitive knowledge) do not ask the priest for forgiveness, but use him to verbalize their sins, to let it out in the open. If we can tell another human of our sins then we can begin to accept our position as sinners.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Lenon said:
It would be good to also correct the fact that Catholics do not ask a priest for forgiveness. Such a statement is ignorant. Catholics (according to my primitive knowledge) do not ask the priest for forgiveness, but use him to verbalize their sins, to let it out in the open. If we can tell another human of our sins then we can begin to accept our position as sinners.
Allah told us that if we showed our sin to others so it's even worse than the sin itself because we have to keep this between us and God and he is the only one who can forgive it and he warned us from doing the bad deed and telling everybody that i did that or that. We just have to keep it and ask for forgivness from God. Also, he said if we saw someone doing a bad thing (that don't harm the socity) so we have to keep his secret and don't tell others what s/he did.

That dosn't mean that i'm saying you are wrong but i'm telling you the situation according to our faith only to share it. :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
_salam_ said:
You said that you think that Allah exsists only in Mecca. This is wrong, Allah exsists everywhere. The reason we pray towards Mecca is because the Kabba is there. Muslims do not worship the Kabba however, we pray towards the Kabba because we believe it was the origonal house built for God, built by Abraham.
I want to add more to this that the first direction for Muslims wasn't Mecca but in jursalem in palstien then Prophet Moahmmed was parying to God to change to Mecca because it was one of the first God's mosques which was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael.

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do". (Quran 2:144)

sacred Mosque: the name of Allah's mosque in Mecca.

The old direction was for the Jews too and still until now so Prophet Moahmed (PBUH) loved to be the direction for Muslims in Mecca because the jews were bothering him at that time even though both are holy mosques.
Secondly, It was a test for Muslims because some would say why did he change the direction.

Thirdly, Why Muslims pary toward a specific direction that's to make all Muslims unite and pray to one direction whether it was Mecca or somewhere else but the point is all of them must pray toward a spesific direction so God chosed Mecca for Muslims to have as a direction in thier prayers.:)
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Lady Marva said:
muslims sort of earn points with giving to charities they are told to give to, praying the proscribed number of times in the proscribed direction every day (which leads to the question of why muslims think allah only exists in Mecca; kinda limits their god), eat the food they are told to, obey their leaders, etc. There is no guarantee of getting to heaven (real nice religion. The god keeps you waiting till you die to know what kind of a grade you got. The ultimate fear factor keeps the masses bowing) EXCEPT by committing the ultimate self-sacrifice when infidels need to be killed.
Christians, too, "sort of earn points" by turning the other cheek, giving your coat when someone just asks for your shirt, loving your neighbor, forgiving those who wrong you, etc. Salvation is just "earning Points."
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Ooops. I usually don't post in such old thread.

Jonny - back when this site started, you could give people negative frubals, too. (That's why there's that inexplicable bubble when you try to frubal some one that says good ++. Why even have a bubble?) But then the admins thought it was a bad idea, because you could just negative frubal people you don't like. So they did away with it. (I only know that because back when we had that technical problem they accidentally forgot to re-deactivate that option.)
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
im on this jesus forum, and they dont even act christian, that is, acting how Jesus did, how jesus was loving and accepting. all they do is denounce other religions and cause hate and animosity.
Now that is the most correct statement ever. Can I add a few forums to the list?
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
The prophet Muhammad told us; "This material world is a prison to the true believer, but it is a paradise to the disbeliever." That's funny
 

croak

Trickster
Someone should save me from Muslims :help:
*screams like a madman and brandishes a sword* Why?

The prophet Muhammad told us; "This material world is a prison to the true believer, but it is a paradise to the disbeliever." That's funny
It makes sense. In this world, everyone seems to care about money, cars, being famous. (I said seems, not are. Most people in RF aren't like that) A believer would care about Allah, not about money, since he knows he will die one day and all that money would be useless. So when people get obsessed with money, you feel imprisoned; they care about it, and you are surrounded by them. Now, why would it be paradise to the disbeliever? Because you've got money, fame, and all the other things before you, waiting for you to find them. A disbeliever doesn't believe in Allah, so when he dies, he dies. At least he can have a good life before that.

I keep getting that feeling I've said something wrong.
 
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