Muslims and Christians Only: Was Jesus Crucified Or Not?

[ZooGirl02]

Hello everyone. I want to have a debate between Muslims and Christians only. I do not want anyone else to participate in the debate.

So, the question is this: Was Jesus crucified or not? As for me, I strongly believe that He was indeed crucified but the Quran states that He was not crucified. Here is the evidence for believing that He was indeed crucified:

In addition to the Gospel narratives of the crucifixion of Jesus we also have the testimony of Josephus, a Jewish historian; Tacitus, a Roman historian; and a possible reference to His crucifixion in the Babylonian Talmud. There is also a letter from a person named Mara Bar-Serapion which mentions the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You can see more about these evidences at Wikipedia here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus

So, Muslims, why do you believe that Jesus was not crucified? Please provide rebuttals.

 

[islam means peace]

Well, might take bit time to listen but I think this debate can teach you a lot

www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_886aC1enY

 

[ZooGirl02]

Well, might take bit time to listen but I think this debate can teach you a lot

[youtube]l_886aC1enY[/youtube]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_886aC1enY

I'm sorry but I don't have 3 and a half hours to spend watching the video. Could you sum it up for me please?

 

[ZooGirl02]

I have decided to go ahead and watch the video. I am listening to it right now.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I am sorry. I watched a little over an hour of the video but I couldn't pay attention to it. I was so distracted. Anyway, if you could sum up the video, it'd be appreciated.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I wanted to make a request. Could any further refutations of my original post not be videos please, especially if they are longer than 10 minutes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wanted to make a request. Could any further refutations of my original post not be videos please, especially if they are longer than 10 minutes.

I second that request. Not everyone has half hours or hours on end to spend listening to Islamic evangelism videos. Put it in your own words.

 

[islam means peace]

Well, Atlhough i also not watched it all, I think we cannot summerize 3 hours video in just few sentences,

If you like my opinion, in short here DR Zakir Naik proofs from biblbe iteself that Prophet Jesus was not crucified. How, I think the only way is to watch the whole debate,

Yes, why are you watching the whole in just one go, you can just set 10 minutes a day or what ever time you can give then do it next day, you are just interested in topic so the debate is between christian and muslim for the same topic, that why i share it with you.

I think dispite waiting for response here as mostly here are laymens , you should see what scholars say, they are more educated then we are so give more proper response with proofs

If you are really interested in topic so that video is all in one for you.

Might be somebody else can give you short answer, yes you already watched one an horus so i think you already have an idea what its all about.

 

[islam means peace]

One more thing, what i uderstand this video is a debate and not a leacture so give both point of view

Islam
Christian

So as ZOOGIRL2 Says

I want to have a debate between Muslims and Christians only. I do not want anyone else to participate in the debate

.

I posted this as this is debate give both point of view as per scholars and educated people, that is more authentic then what we post.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Well, Atlhough i also not watched it all, I think we cannot summerize 3 hours video in just few sentences,

If you like my opinion, in short here DR Zakir Naik proofs from biblbe iteself that Prophet Jesus was not crucified. How, I think the only way is to watch the whole debate,

Yes, why are you watching the whole in just one go, you can just set 10 minutes a day or what ever time you can give then do it next day, you are just interested in topic so the debate is between christian and muslim for the same topic, that why i share it with you.

I think dispite waiting for response here as mostly here are laymens , you should see what scholars say, they are more educated then we are so give more proper response with proofs

If you are really interested in topic so that video is all in one for you.

Might be somebody else can give you short answer, yes you already watched one an horus so i think you already have an idea what its all about.

Why should a Muslim be a Muslim if he/she can't defend such a basic teaching of their holy book?

 

[Desert Snake]

Hello everyone. I want to have a debate between Muslims and Christians only. I do not want anyone else to participate in the debate.

Well, I don't "know" if He was, either way. What I am sure of is that the resurrection is not some later development, even if a non-Christian analyzes the texts we have referring to Jesus, He was around after the crucifixion episode.
For purposes of remaining true to Christian narrative, I would say yes, however, considering that this is not exactly what I focus on, I tend to be what one might describe as a cultural Christian, another possibility would not 'surprise' me.

To formulate an argument...
1. Jesus is said to have faced crucifixion.
Now, this is a little tricky. 'Facing' crucifixion does leave the possibility of either being somehow pardoned, or escaping/surviving crucifixion for whatever reason.
2. Crucifixion is in the Christian narrative.
Major indication of actual crucifixion, we don't exactly get much 'alternative' narrative here, except for outside of Christianity
3. Resurrection narrative.
This is self explanatory. No crucifixion, no resurrection. This, however, does not exclude the other possibilities. We have metaphor to deal with, the heavy metaphorical aspects of resurrection make us, if we are skeptical, consider embellishment to the narrative.
Summary.
As a cultural Christian, I respect the tradition that IS the narrative, the story, excepted by Christendom. This would INCLUDE metaphor.
So, I will argue in favor of Christian tradition, and support the idea of crucifixion.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Well, I don't "know" if He was, either way. What I am sure of is that the resurrection is not some later development, even if a non-Christian analyzes the texts we have referring to Jesus, He was around after the crucifixion episode.
For purposes of remaining true to Christian narrative, I would say yes, however, considering that this is not exactly what I focus on, I tend to be what one might describe as a cultural Christian, another possibility would not 'surprise' me.

To formulate an argument...
1. Jesus is said to have faced crucifixion.
Now, this is a little tricky. 'Facing' crucifixion does leave the possibility of either being somehow pardoned, or escaping/surviving crucifixion for whatever reason.
2. Crucifixion is in the Christian narrative.
Major indication of actual crucifixion, we don't exactly get much 'alternative' narrative here, except for outside of Christianity
3. Resurrection narrative.
This is self explanatory. No crucifixion, no resurrection. This, however, does not exclude the other possibilities. We have metaphor to deal with, the heavy metaphorical aspects of resurrection make us, if we are skeptical, consider embellishment to the narrative.
Summary.
As a cultural Christian, I respect the tradition that IS the narrative, the story, excepted by Christendom. This would INCLUDE metaphor.
So, I will argue in favor of Christian tradition, and support the idea of crucifixion.

Thank you for replying Disciple. I don't have much to add to your post but I did want to thank you for participating in the thread.

 

[Desert Snake]

Thank you for replying Disciple. I don't have much to add to your post but I did want to thank you for participating in the thread.

My argument is extremely conservative, if you didn't notice. I did so in light of the fact that there are other arguments present, and best to begin 'refutation' beforehand.


In reality, it is VERY difficult to 'disprove' the longstanding traditions of Christianity concerning Jesus...it is part of the Religion, and in some ways would require a very non-Christian perspective.

Secularists tend to focus on other aspects of Christianity when trying to 'disprove' Christian thought, traditions, or theology. The main 'problem' imo, of not holding the view that the crucifixion happened, is the resurrection narrative. And further, the importance of that in tradition.

 

[TashaN]

What kind of proof will satisfy you? proofs from the bible itself or from the Quran?

How would you like to go about this?

 

[beenie]

I too am a little confused by this topic. The debate will be based on faith and belief. There is no "proving" one way or another.

Surah 4, Verses 157 & 158:

And their saying : we killed Christ Jesus, son of Mary, The messenger of Allah - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so; and those who disagree concerning it are full of doubts; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; For surely they killed him not; but Allah took him up unto Himself; and Allah is ever mighty, wise.

That's the Muslim interpretation; either you accept this version as truth or you don't, and if not, then you accept the Christian version.

 

[Hawkins]

Hello everyone. I want to have a debate between Muslims and Christians only. I do not want anyone else to participate in the debate.

So, the question is this: Was Jesus crucified or not? As for me, I strongly believe that He was indeed crucified but the Quran states that He was not crucified. Here is the evidence for believing that He was indeed crucified:

In addition to the Gospel narratives of the crucifixion of Jesus we also have the testimony of Josephus, a Jewish historian; Tacitus, a Roman historian; and a possible reference to His crucifixion in the Babylonian Talmud. There is also a letter from a person named Mara Bar-Serapion which mentions the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You can see more about these evidences at Wikipedia here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus

So, Muslims, why do you believe that Jesus was not crucified? Please provide rebuttals.

The nature of history is that you need faith to get to a truth, no matter what.

 

[YmirGF]

So, Muslims, why do you believe that Jesus was not crucified? Please provide rebuttals.

I won't subject you to 3+ hours of drivel spouted by "Dr." Zakir Naik (aka. Naik the snake). Listening to and watching his video will lower the IQ of the listener/watcher.

This is the argument, if you want to call it that, from the Muslim perspective.

Muhammad was a truthful man and never told lies. Muhammad claimed, via the Qur'an and in talks, that Jesus was not crucified. Since Muhammad never lied, he must be telling the truth about the supposed crucifixion of Jesus.

Um, that's about it. No evidence, really. Just Muhammad's say so.

 

[Union]

Let me make this thread a bit interesting .

From the NT narrators , who witnessed Jesus' crucifixion ? Luke , John , Mathew, Mark , Paul , James ? Who ?

I am asking the NT narrators because they were the prime sources of the story of crucifixion .

 

[FearGod]

Hello everyone. I want to have a debate between Muslims and Christians only. I do not want anyone else to participate in the debate.

So, the question is this: Was Jesus crucified or not? As for me, I strongly believe that He was indeed crucified but the Quran states that He was not crucified. Here is the evidence for believing that He was indeed crucified:

In addition to the Gospel narratives of the crucifixion of Jesus we also have the testimony of Josephus, a Jewish historian; Tacitus, a Roman historian; and a possible reference to His crucifixion in the Babylonian Talmud. There is also a letter from a person named Mara Bar-Serapion which mentions the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You can see more about these evidences at Wikipedia here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus

So, Muslims, why do you believe that Jesus was not crucified? Please provide rebuttals.

The body was crucified,but it wasn't Jesus soul at the time of crucifixion.

 

[YmirGF]

The body was crucified,but it wasn't Jesus soul at the time of crucifixion.