I understood they married when Aisha was six although the marriage was not consummated until she was nine. But as you say,there is considerable debate (and no facts)
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Muhammad
- Thread starter King Phenomenon
- Start date
I understood they married when Aisha was six although the marriage was not consummated until she was nine. But as you say,there is considerable debate (and no facts)
VoidoftheSun
Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
He didn't, she was around 17.
She was engaged to Jubayr ibn Mut'im years and years before she ever meet Prophet Muhammad (A.S.). Her engagement with Jubayr was eventually called off.
Muhammad was also not very interested in Aisha on a personal and definitely not a romantic or sexual level. Abu Bakr pressured him to marrying her, which was more over social circumstances than anything to do with the will of Muhammad. Many Sunni Hadith lie about that though.
And to entertain the common six yr old myth; I find it a massive absurdity that Abu Bakr would engage his 2 year old daughter. That's not believable at all.
Even if the age of Aisha was older than some seem to think, it might have affected attitudes - unless this is purely down to writings concerning when one should be allowed to marry (puberty and such, but still ludicrously young):
Bill to Ban Child Marriages in Iran Facing Implacable Opposition by Religious Conservatives
In 1934, Article 1041 of the Civil Code set the minimum age of marriage at 15 for girls and 18 for boys. In 1975, Family Protection Law increased the age of marriage to 18 for girls and 20 for boys. But after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the marriage age was lowered. In 1982, the marriage age was changed to 9 (lunar years) for girls and 15 (lunar years) for boys. Then in 2002, the marriage age for girls was set at 13 and 15 for boys with a clause that 9-year-old girls could get married with parental permission and the court’s consent.
https://www.newsweek.com/un-condemns-iran-increase-child-brides-young-10-423435
Bill to Ban Child Marriages in Iran Facing Implacable Opposition by Religious Conservatives
In 1934, Article 1041 of the Civil Code set the minimum age of marriage at 15 for girls and 18 for boys. In 1975, Family Protection Law increased the age of marriage to 18 for girls and 20 for boys. But after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the marriage age was lowered. In 1982, the marriage age was changed to 9 (lunar years) for girls and 15 (lunar years) for boys. Then in 2002, the marriage age for girls was set at 13 and 15 for boys with a clause that 9-year-old girls could get married with parental permission and the court’s consent.
https://www.newsweek.com/un-condemns-iran-increase-child-brides-young-10-423435
VoidoftheSun
Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
Yes it's pretty crazy, quite a large number of countries are like that.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Maritable age as per the Quran is not just puberty. Stipulated very clearly. Their full physical growth, tested ability to manage their own finances and their inheritances, and they have to be women, not little girls.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
My Master told us "People focus too much on `family history` (who married whom, age, color etc) forgetting what is important; the teaching"
Ramayana was written by someone who used to be a thief, robber
I think it is great that God chooses "bad" people
For writing God's Scriptures to mankind
Seems God is not judgmental
Augustus
…
A lot of what people assume is history regarding this period is actually mostly theology or religious narrative. Western pop-culture understandings of early Islam often tend to be of the theological variety.
In recent years, scholars have increasingly used the label “proto-Sunni” to denote a
late Umayyad — early Abbasid period movement which played a pivotal role in the
formation of Sunni Islam... the category proto-Sunni usefully underlines the fact that, like other
religious traditions,5 Sunni Islam did not appear in history fully formed; but that it
emerged through a complex historical process, a process which yielded widespread
Sunni self-awareness no earlier than the late 9th century.6 As such, the designation
proto-Sunni underscores the provisional nature of the many competing versions of Islam
in this period, and against that background, the crucial role of those who prepared the
way for an eventual Sunni consensus... While much of the credit for the
“Sunni synthesis” must go to jurists and theologians of the 10th through the 13th centuries,
such as al-Ash‘arı¯ (d. 936) and al-Ghazza¯lı¯ (d. 1111), who absorbed many of the
cross-currents of early Islam into grand legal and theological schemes, it is important to
remember that those very schemes would have proven impossible without the
foundations laid by the early proto-Sunnis.83 Laying these foundations or plausibility
structures is their greatest achievement; an achievement which was the result of the
proto-Sunnis’ uniquely satisfying solutions to the historical pressures they faced on one
hand, and the increasing prestige they enjoyed on the other.
The Roots and Achievements of the Early Proto-Sunni Movement: A Profile and Interpretation - Matthew J. Kuiper
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Any reason why the hadiths will lie? They were written by devout Muslims.
So, who all who brought the scriptures were "bad"?
How come so many little girls are being married off then? Bad Muslims?
Augustus
…
Any the Gospels were written by devout (proto)Christians...
But having Aisha married so young 'proves' her chastity and thus negates sectarian arguments against her reputation.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not even Muslims believe in Hadith like that. You have great faith in Hadith to justify this to that level. I mean the length you went to say "it was written by devout Muslims" is something even Muslims don't do. The whole Ululm ul Hadith is based on testing, doubting. Its strange that you have so much faith even the writers of these Hadith don't have. Even people like at tabari doubted his own stories because he said that he is only narrating as he received.
Amazing.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Of course.
But Im curious to know, when you say "so many", how many is that? Do you have statistics?
Well I cited a couple, and it doesn't take much searching to see that most of such does apparently still occur in mainly Muslim countries - even if illegal. I know it is often just a facet from the past, and the same occurred in non-Muslim countries too, but I wonder how much is such or down to a belief that if it was fine for the Prophet Muhammed then it still is.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not good enough of an analysis.
It wasn't meant to be an analysis. Do some research for yourself.
firedragon
Veteran Member
See. When you make statements the ownership of it is on the maker. Its only people who make statements without any substance who ultimately end up saying "you do your own research". So it seems you have not done any research, but you think others have not too. Its a pretty normal sentiment.
Peace.
Not read the two links I cited? If you were serious in wanting to find out more then you could do the work as equally as me. But obviously you don't.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not read the two links I cited? If you were serious in wanting to find out more then you could do the work as equally as me. But obviously you don't.
If you want to read research rather than playing a rhetoric, read "WHO Adolescent papers" in particular "Issues in Adolescent Health and Development" and the research is extensive. If you read something of substance you will see that you are wrong, generalising and have no clue what you are speaking about.
Read "Department of Child and Adolescent Health and Development World Health Organization, Geneva" research done globally and what page 12 says about child marriages. Your links are very specifically chosen to suit your agenda, but that's not how you make analysis of some phenomena.
If you wish to understand some subject, do the research. Not shallow surfing the internet.
Could have at least quoted a link. And I never said it was an analysis. Child marriage still occurs all around the world. All I said was that some of the countries where the youngest (so not adolescent) are married seem to occur in Muslim countries - and if that had any relationship to the age and marriage of Aisha.
Child marriage - Wikipedia
firedragon
Veteran Member
No links. Its research paper.
You are mixing religious rhetoric to religious scholarship. Absolutely wrong and pretty lay to do that.
Child marriages happen everywhere. Worse is in the Sub Saharan Africa. And there, Muslims and Christians both do it. Both have their own justifications which means they have religious justifications to suit their culture.
This matter has two sides to it. One is child pregnancy and the second is the age of marriage. According to the study the worse in statistics is the for ages 15-19 and the worse is Angola, which is a Christian country. WHO states that the worse is Sub Saharan Africa, then the Americas, then the Middle East and North Africa put together, 4th is South Asia, and the last is Europe. When it comes to South Asia, India is the worst and there more Hindus marry children than Muslims.
In the Arab world what considered research is to identify girls below the age of 19 getting married. But in India the research begins with the age of 15. Do you know that 26% are married in India? These are children. And if you go uptown 18 years of age, 54% are married. All of this results in child pregnancies and a whole lot of repercussions that come as aftermath.
Did you not notice the Americas? Why have you focused on Sudan in one article who are changing their laws? If you care about children, do your research mate. And do it unbiasedly.