Mormon Church has $100 BILLION

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not require anyone to give anything.

No one is required to give any time, effort, talent or money in order to become or stay a member of the Church.

Anyone can come to our chapels and worship with us on Sunday for nothing. You don't even need to be a member.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a polytheist religion.

"We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." (First Article of Faith)

We worship God the Father through the merits and grace of His Son Jesus Christ and the ministrations of the Holy Ghost.

We do believe that all of God's children can one day become like Him - but He will always be the object of our worship.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Keep the forum rules.

It's not misinformation when your godhead is three separate entities, and your religion believes that humans can also become gods (you admit the latter). That's multiple gods. That's polytheism.

I'm not breaking any forum rules. I just don't expect followers of certain religions to be completely clear about their beliefs, due to past interactions with them. If you have a problem, ignore me but it's not going to change my mind.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God and His miracles have a positive correlation with the faith of His people.

Basically - the more faith exhibited by a people the more miracles they should expect.

The New Testament record that the Lord Jesus Christ could not perform miracles or "mighty works" at His hometown because of their unbelief.

Now - this is not to say that God or the Lord Jesus Christ are limited - at His Second Coming the unbelief of the people won't matter.

However - God has promised His children that He would not overtly intervene in their lives unless they asked Him to with faith.

Also - the need of the request is prevalent. Did millions of ancient Israelites actually need the manna or could they have gotten by some other way in the desert?

We should also not forget how the Lord desires that His children work and experience things for themselves.

He does not pass up opportunities to teach His children how to thrive in their environment.

Basically - in summary - you are ignorant of God and how He works. You don't know what you are talking about.

So, when god says he money and can do a miracle, but only if everyone believes amd gives. Then muscle can happen.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

It's not misinformation when your godhead is three separate entities, and your religion believes that humans can also become gods (you admit the latter).

I actually admitted to both.

We believe that the Godhead is comprised of three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the First Article of Faith I quoted explained that.

It is almost identically similar to how the entirety of all Christendom recognizes the Godhead. They are distinct and separate - yet one.

It is what the New Testament teaches. The three are one God - or Godhead.

It also teaches that there are "gods" many and "lords" many but -

"... to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

I assume you must also consider all Christians to be polytheists then?

All this is beside the point - in my opinion - because in this and in your initial comment you implied that "Mormons" worship "gods" (i.e. exalted human beings).

You attempted to misrepresent the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by claiming that members of the Church worship other Beings outside of the Godhead.

We worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - because they are one God.

That's multiple gods. That's polytheism.

We worship the Godhead as one God.

I'm not breaking any forum rules.

Yes - you are.

You are attempting to claim that we worship Men or other Beings that are not God or members of the Godhead.

I just don't expect followers of certain religions to be completely clear about their beliefs, due to past interactions with them.

That seems fair. (Note: Sarcasm)

What if I were to claim that I never expected you to be completely clear about your opinions or beliefs?

Second guess everything you say. Claim that no matter what you said I wouldn't believe you and I would never change my mind about you or your beliefs?

That sounds reasonable to you?

If you have a problem, ignore me but it's not going to change my mind.

Then you are closed-minded.

I don't expect you to change your mind on hard concrete facts - like how a man can never become a woman - but matters of belief and opinion?

That not fair or reasonable and you're only hurting yourself in the long run.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I actually admitted to both.

We believe that the Godhead is comprised of three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the First Article of Faith I quoted explained that.

It is almost identically similar to how the entirety of all Christendom recognizes the Godhead. They are distinct and separate - yet one.

It is what the New Testament teaches. The three are one God - or Godhead.

It also teaches that there are "gods" many and "lords" many but -

"... to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

I assume you must also consider all Christians to be polytheists then?

All this is beside the point - in my opinion - because in this and in your initial comment you implied that "Mormons" worship "gods" (i.e. exalted human beings).

You attempted to misrepresent the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by claiming that members of the Church worship other Beings outside of the Godhead.

We worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - because they are one God.

We worship the Godhead as one God.

Yes - you are.

You are attempting to claim that we worship Men or other Beings that are not God or members of the Godhead.

That seems fair. (Note: Sarcasm)

What if I were to claim that I never expected you to be completely clear about your opinions or beliefs?

Second guess everything you say. Claim that no matter what you said I wouldn't believe you and I would never change my mind about you or your beliefs?

That sounds reasonable to you?

Then you are closed-minded.

I don't expect you to change your mind on hard concrete facts - like how a man can never become a woman - but matters of belief and opinion?

That not fair or reasonable and you're only hurting yourself in the long run.

No, Trinitarians aren't polytheists as the Trinity is believed to share the same essence. It's kind of like three people sharing one soul or light shining through a prism. They don't have a separate essence as Mormons seem to believe about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I didn't say that Mormons worship other beings outside of the Godhead. But that Mormons view the members of the Godhead as three distinct beings with separate essences, which makes them a sort of council of three different entities. So Mormonism worships three gods, but also holds that humans may become gods themselves, as the Father was once like us. So there's a multitude of deities in Mormonism, although you may restrict yourselves to worshipping three, who are united in will. They be united in will by they are still distinct entities.

I have no idea why you chose to throw in a transphobic barb except to be spiteful.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

So, when god says he money and can do a miracle, but only if everyone believes amd gives. Then muscle can happen.

God has made several promises to us - His children.

One of those promises was that He would give us this time to be free to choose for ourselves whether or not we want to become like Him.

In order to keep this promise - He does not "flex" His muscles in any discernible way - at least to out limited senses - unless we share our desire that He do so.

We show Him this desire in all kinds of ways such as; prayer, fasting, participating in ordinances, teaching and learning about Him, keeping His commandments.

His ability to "flex" is not limited at all - He simply wants to respect our wishes.

It is just as the Lord said at the conclusion of His Sermon on the Mount,

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." (Matthew 7:7-8)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

unless we share our desire that He do so.

We show Him this desire in all kinds of ways such as; prayer, fasting, participating in ordinances, teaching and learning about Him, keeping His commandments.

That's approximately the same as whay every religion says.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

No, Trinitarians aren't polytheists as the Trinity is believed to share the same essence. It's kind of like three people sharing one soul or light shining through a prism. They don't have a separate essence as Mormons seem to believe about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

These are direct quotes from the Athanasian Creed -

"For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal."

"So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God."

The Father is "one Person" and the Son is another "Person" and the Holy Ghost is another "Person".

However - the Godhead - which consists of all three - "is all one" - and they share the glory and majesty equally and eternally.

Each member of the Godhead is in His own right God - but since they are one in will and purpose - they are worshiped as one God.

This is honestly no different than what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches and exactly what I have been sharing with you.

If you claim that "Mormons" are polytheist - then you must also claim that all Christians are polytheist.

I didn't say that Mormons worship other beings outside of the Godhead.

Yes - you did.

In your initial comment (Post #192) you said,

"You shouldn't need money to worship God (or gods, in the case of Mormonism)." (Bold and italics added)

Notice that you used the word "gods" with the lower-case "g" - which would be inappropriate to use if you were referring to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I responded to this comment in Post #195 by saying,

"We worship God the Father through the merits and grace of His Son Jesus Christ and the ministrations of the Holy Ghost.

We do believe that all of God's children can one day become like Him - but He will always be the object of our worship.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I believed that your use of the word "gods" was a reference to the Latter-day Saint doctrine of exaltation - or the deification of Man - also known as theosis by the Greek Orthodox.

I interpreted your comment to be a claim that we worshiped Beings outside of the Godhead.

That was when in your response (Post #201) that you confirmed that you had used "gods" as a reference to exalted Man - not the members of the Godhead - and you had claimed that we worshiped them. You said,

"It's not misinformation when your godhead is three separate entities, and your religion believes that humans can also become gods (you admit the latter). That's multiple gods. That's polytheism." (Bold and italics added)

You claimed that the humans that can "also become gods" were in addition to to the Godhead - thus making us polytheists.

We do not worship any Beings or "gods" outside of the Godhead. We do not believe that there are other Beings or "gods" that are equal to or even dispute the power and authority of the members of the Godhead.

We agree with what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 - which I will quote to you again.

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

I'm not claiming that we agree with all Christians exactly on the nature of God and our relationship to Him - but we are not polytheist.

If Christians are monotheists - then so are we.

But that Mormons view the members of the Godhead as three distinct beings with separate essences, which makes them a sort of council of three different entities.

I don't believe the word "essence" is used in Latter-day Saint explanations of the Godhead.

In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism it says this about the Godhead,

"Although the three members of the Godhead are distinct personages, their Godhead is "one" in that all three are united in their thoughts, actions, and purpose, with each having a fulness of knowledge, truth, and power. Each is a God. This does not imply a mystical union of substance or personality."

So Mormonism worships three gods, but also holds that humans may become gods themselves, as the Father was once like us.

Then you believe that other Christians also worship "three gods" and are therefore also polytheist?

So there's a multitude of deities in Mormonism, although you may restrict yourselves to worshipping three, who are united in will. They be united in will by they are still distinct entities.

There are only the three deities. Mankind has not been deified yet.

Those three are distinct entities - or Persons - as described by the Catholic Church in those parts of the Athanasian Creed that I quoted to you.

If you believe that we are polytheists for worshiping all three members of the Godhead - then you must also believe that all Christians are as well.

I have no idea why you chose to throw in a transphobic barb except to be spiteful.

I do not hate nor am I afraid of transgender persons.

If I had said, "I don't expect you to change your mind on hard concrete facts - like how a Caucasian can never become Asian - but matters of belief and opinion?"

Would you consider me racist?

If statements of concrete, indisputable, absolute truth offend you - then I don't know what to say - God-speed.

Just assume I said something like "water is wet" or some other cold hard fact.

And where do you come off claiming that I am being "spiteful" after you just claimed that I am a liar because I am a "Mormon" (i.e. follower of a certain religion)?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

That's approximately the same as whay every religion says.

Our world has no lack of religions - just lack of faith and understanding.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

These are direct quotes from the Athanasian Creed -

"For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal."

"So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God."

The Father is "one Person" and the Son is another "Person" and the Holy Ghost is another "Person".

However - the Godhead - which consists of all three - "is all one" - and they share the glory and majesty equally and eternally.

Each member of the Godhead is in His own right God - but since they are one in will and purpose - they are worshiped as one God.

This is honestly no different than what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches and exactly what I have been sharing with you.

If you claim that "Mormons" are polytheist - then you must also claim that all Christians are polytheist.

No, you've misunderstood me here. Person doesn't equal essence. Let me try to explain. If you and I had the same essence, it would mean that we had the very same spirit or that our very nature was consituted of the same things.

Personhood is different. In Trinitarianism, the Three Persons of the Trinity are of the same Essence but are different Persons. So they are three manifestations of the very same spirit of God but having different personalities or functions. That's as simple as I can put it. They all have the same Essence, so are not different beings or entities. Like I said, it's like three people having the same soul or light reflecting through a prism.

I don't believe the word "essence" is used in Latter-day Saint explanations of the Godhead.

In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism it says this about the Godhead,

"Although the three members of the Godhead are distinct personages, their Godhead is "one" in that all three are united in their thoughts, actions, and purpose, with each having a fulness of knowledge, truth, and power. Each is a God. This does not imply a mystical union of substance or personality."

Yes, so they are three distinct deities because they do not share the same essence (or soul, spirit, fundemenral nature or whatever you wish to call it). They are three entities in agreement with each other. In Trinitarianism, they are the same One entity, just different manifestations of such (to put it very simply.)

There are only the three deities. Mankind has not been deified yet.

Those three are distinct entities - or Persons - as described by the Catholic Church in those parts of the Athanasian Creed that I quoted to you.

If you believe that we are polytheists for worshiping all three members of the Godhead - then you must also believe that all Christians are as well.

No, because the doctrine as to the substance of the members of the Trinity is not the same.

I do not hate nor am I afraid of transgender persons.

If I had said, "I don't expect you to change your mind on hard concrete facts - like how a Caucasian can never become Asian - but matters of belief and opinion?"

Would you consider me racist?

If statements of concrete, indisputable, absolute truth offend you - then I don't know what to say - God-speed.

Just assume I said something like "water is wet" or some other cold hard fact.

And where do you come off claiming that I am being "spiteful" after you just claimed that I am a liar because I am a "Mormon" (i.e. follower of a certain religion)?

This is all irrevelant to the topic. I am a female to male transsexual, just so you know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is almost identically similar to how the entirety of all Christendom recognizes the Godhead. They are distinct and separate - yet one.

Just so you know, the Trinitarian godhead isn't universal throughout Christianity like you claim. Many reject it as god said be is god and there is no other, they reject it as polytheism, they reject it as Paganism.

I do not hate nor am I afraid of transgender persons.

Sure looked spiteful to me. Especially as I am willing to wager you can't provide a definition of male and female that doesn't unfairly exclude many.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

No, you've misunderstood me here. Person doesn't equal essence. Let me try to explain. If you and I had the same essence, it would mean that we had the very same spirit or that our very nature was consituted of the same things.

Personhood is different. In Trinitarianism, the Three Persons of the Trinity are of the same Essence but are different Persons. So they are three manifestations of the very same spirit of God but having different personalities or functions. That's as simple as I can put it. They all have the same Essence, so are not different beings or entities. Like I said, it's like three people having the same soul or light reflecting through a prism.

I understand what you are saying - but I do not believe that the Anathasian Creed agrees with this understanding of the word "essence".

I have looked at two versions of the Creed and both versions use the word "essence" four times - one of them claims that "essence" also means "substance".

What you shared above could agree with the first use of the word "essence" in the Creed, which reads,

"And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence."

This could be describing a "shared spirit of the Godhead" like you mentioned - however - when the Creed attempts to explain the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ we see the word "essence" used differently.

"Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world."

Unless you are also claiming that Mary - the mortal mother of Christ - is also a member of this "shared spirit of the Godhead" - your understanding of the word "essence" falls apart.

I believe this proves that the Creed uses the word "essence" to describe a specific "nature" - not a "shared spirit" - because it describes that the Lord Jesus Christ was both God and Man because He had inherited the "divine nature" from the Father and the "mortal nature" from His mother.

Or you could be arguing that the Lord Jesus Christ shares a different spirit with His mortal mother Mary?

It is my opinion that the last use of the word "essence" seals the deal in my favor,

"Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person."

The Lord Jesus Christ is one Person - a Perfect God and a Perfect Man - who has His own "reasonable soul" and His own "human flesh".

He is not the Godhead made flesh - or in other words not Three Persons of the Trinity sharing the same flesh - but a singular Man who assumes the authority of God.

Even though He possesses this duality - He is a single Person - a single soul - both Perfect God and Perfect Man - and there is no "confusion of Essence" - or in other words no "confusion of nature" - but a unity of His divine and mortal nature into a single Person - a single soul.

Combine this with the other parts of the Creed I shared earlier and I believe that it is clear that the Creed claims that the Godhead shares the same "divine nature" - or Essence - but they are three distinct Persons or Individuals.

This "Essence" cannot be a reference to a "shared spirit of the Godhead" because then you would need to claim that Mary is also a member of the Godhead or that the Son and His mortal mother share the same spirit.

Yes, so they are three distinct deities because they do not share the same essence (or soul, spirit, fundemenral nature or whatever you wish to call it). They are three entities in agreement with each other. In Trinitarianism, they are the same One entity, just different manifestations of such (to put it very simply.)

The Latter-day Saint belief in the unity of the Godhead hinges on the concept of perfection.

There is only one way to be perfect. If two Beings were both perfect - they would think and act the same way.

Their very nature would be identical - because there is only one way to be perfect - which would make them "one" in nature and purpose.

We believe that since every member of the Godhead is perfect - they would think and act perfectly the same if placed in the same situation.

We believe that it is the purpose of the Godhead to cause all of Mankind to become perfect as they are. This is their work and their glory.

With this understanding in mind - the Lord's Intercessory Prayer for His disciples takes on a more clear and purposeful meaning,

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:9-11;20-23)

This prayer makes no sense if this "oneness" with God the Father and the Son is describing a "shared spirit of the Godhead" - but it does make sense if it is describing a "divine nature" or being "perfect in one".

It is the Godhead's work and glory to make Man perfect as they are - not to incorporate or absorb them into this "shared spirit".

No, because the doctrine as to the substance of the members of the Trinity is not the same.

Since the word "substance" is also known as "essence" I don't see how the Creed disagrees with the Latter-day Saint understanding of the Godhead.

It uses different words - but they ultimately mean the same thing.

This is all irrevelant to the topic. I am a female to male transsexual, just so you know.

I was unaware and I apologize - not for my statement of fact - but for causing any unintended offense.

The concept of sex or gender is a big one for Latter-day Saints because we believe that our spirits are also engendered.

A male spirit is placed into a male mortal body.

I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong or that you need to believe what I say - but I do want you to understand my distress over the idea of transitioning.

I believe it will cause nothing but heartache and sorrow - perhaps not in this life - but I believe that once we leave this life we will be as we were before we came here - without any transition - and that will be painful for those who hope for such a change.

Combine this belief with the biological facts and you can understand why I cannot agree with transgenderism as a movement.

I pray that God blesses you and I wish you the best in your endeavors - whether I agree with them or not.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Just so you know, the Trinitarian godhead isn't universal throughout Christianity like you claim. Many reject it as god said be is god and there is no other, they reject it as polytheism, they reject it as Paganism.

Then perhaps these Trinitarians don't agree with the Anathasian Creed as it is written.

From what I have read the Creed agrees with the New Testament on the subject of the Godhead consisting of three separate Persons.

Or perhaps these Christians you are referring to do not believe in the New Testament as it is written?

Sure looked spiteful to me. Especially as I am willing to wager you can't provide a definition of male and female that doesn't unfairly exclude many.

I had no idea that forum member was transgender.

Facts and definitions are not made to be "fair".

If someone feels excluded - that's most likely due to them not fitting the criteria or the definition.

That's just reality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or perhaps these Christians you are referring to do not believe in the New Testament as it is written?

They believe in it. They do, however, reject the trinity and thus the divinity of Christ. Making him a demi-god is pagan.

Facts and definitions are not made to be "fair".

If someone feels excluded - that's most likely due to them not fitting the criteria or the definition.

That's just reality.

The facts are your pointing out water is wet in a way that is generally and typically by people who are anti-trans, and none f them, including probably yourself, can define male or female and what makes someone a woman or man without problems and oversights you didn't intend. Then it becomes obvious this group didn't know nearly as much about biology as they claim.
That's how that typically goes.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

They believe in it. They do, however, reject the trinity and thus the divinity of Christ. Making him a demi-god is pagan.

Then they do not believe in the New Testament as it is written.

The New Testament teaches the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The facts are your pointing out water is wet in a way that is generally and typically by people who are anti-trans, and none f them, including probably yourself, can define male or female and what makes someone a woman or man without problems and oversights you didn't intend. Then it becomes obvious this group didn't know nearly as much about biology as they claim.

That's how that typically goes.

It would be difficult to properly explain that water is wet to someone who is confused or who doesn't want to believe it.

The same would go for defining male and female.

Trying to explain or describe the blatantly obvious can be difficult sometimes.

Especially if you are talking to someone who denies the existence of facts and reality.

 

[Watchmen]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not require anyone to give anything.

No one is required to give any time, effort, talent or money in order to become or stay a member of the Church.

Anyone can come to our chapels and worship with us on Sunday for nothing. You don't even need to be a member.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a polytheist religion.

"We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." (First Article of Faith)

We worship God the Father through the merits and grace of His Son Jesus Christ and the ministrations of the Holy Ghost.

We do believe that all of God's children can one day become like Him - but He will always be the object of our worship.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Keep the forum rules.

False. Investigators are required to commit to pay tithing to be baptized. Members need to be full tithe payers to receive the endowment.

 

[Watchmen]

God and His miracles have a positive correlation with the faith of His people.

Basically - the more faith exhibited by a people the more miracles they should expect.

The New Testament record that the Lord Jesus Christ could not perform miracles or "mighty works" at His hometown because of their unbelief.

Now - this is not to say that God or the Lord Jesus Christ are limited - at His Second Coming the unbelief of the people won't matter.

However - God has promised His children that He would not overtly intervene in their lives unless they asked Him to with faith.

Also - the need of the request is prevalent. Did millions of ancient Israelites actually need the manna or could they have gotten by some other way in the desert?

We should also not forget how the Lord desires that His children work and experience things for themselves.

He does not pass up opportunities to teach His children how to thrive in their environment.

Basically - in summary - you are ignorant of God and how He works. You don't know what you are talking about.

So....members have to pay a $100 BILLION organization because....faith?

 

[Watchmen]

These are direct quotes from the Athanasian Creed -

"For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal."

"So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God."

The Father is "one Person" and the Son is another "Person" and the Holy Ghost is another "Person".

However - the Godhead - which consists of all three - "is all one" - and they share the glory and majesty equally and eternally.

Each member of the Godhead is in His own right God - but since they are one in will and purpose - they are worshiped as one God.

This is honestly no different than what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches and exactly what I have been sharing with you.

If you claim that "Mormons" are polytheist - then you must also claim that all Christians are polytheist.

Yes - you did.

In your initial comment (Post #192) you said,

"You shouldn't need money to worship God (or gods, in the case of Mormonism)." (Bold and italics added)

Notice that you used the word "gods" with the lower-case "g" - which would be inappropriate to use if you were referring to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I responded to this comment in Post #195 by saying,

"We worship God the Father through the merits and grace of His Son Jesus Christ and the ministrations of the Holy Ghost.

We do believe that all of God's children can one day become like Him - but He will always be the object of our worship.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I believed that your use of the word "gods" was a reference to the Latter-day Saint doctrine of exaltation - or the deification of Man - also known as theosis by the Greek Orthodox.

I interpreted your comment to be a claim that we worshiped Beings outside of the Godhead.

That was when in your response (Post #201) that you confirmed that you had used "gods" as a reference to exalted Man - not the members of the Godhead - and you had claimed that we worshiped them. You said,

"It's not misinformation when your godhead is three separate entities, and your religion believes that humans can also become gods (you admit the latter). That's multiple gods. That's polytheism." (Bold and italics added)

You claimed that the humans that can "also become gods" were in addition to to the Godhead - thus making us polytheists.

We do not worship any Beings or "gods" outside of the Godhead. We do not believe that there are other Beings or "gods" that are equal to or even dispute the power and authority of the members of the Godhead.

We agree with what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 - which I will quote to you again.

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

I'm not claiming that we agree with all Christians exactly on the nature of God and our relationship to Him - but we are not polytheist.

If Christians are monotheists - then so are we.

I don't believe the word "essence" is used in Latter-day Saint explanations of the Godhead.

In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism it says this about the Godhead,

"Although the three members of the Godhead are distinct personages, their Godhead is "one" in that all three are united in their thoughts, actions, and purpose, with each having a fulness of knowledge, truth, and power. Each is a God. This does not imply a mystical union of substance or personality."

Then you believe that other Christians also worship "three gods" and are therefore also polytheist?

There are only the three deities. Mankind has not been deified yet.

Those three are distinct entities - or Persons - as described by the Catholic Church in those parts of the Athanasian Creed that I quoted to you.

If you believe that we are polytheists for worshiping all three members of the Godhead - then you must also believe that all Christians are as well.
I do not hate nor am I afraid of transgender persons.

If I had said, "I don't expect you to change your mind on hard concrete facts - like how a Caucasian can never become Asian - but matters of belief and opinion?"

Would you consider me racist?

If statements of concrete, indisputable, absolute truth offend you - then I don't know what to say - God-speed.

Just assume I said something like "water is wet" or some other cold hard fact.

And where do you come off claiming that I am being "spiteful" after you just claimed that I am a liar because I am a "Mormon" (i.e. follower of a certain religion)?

You clearly don’t under mat and the Creed.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

False. Investigators are required to commit to pay tithing to be baptized. Members need to be full tithe payers to receive the endowment.

This is not accurate.

The Baptism Interview question concerning tithing - and other "gospel standards" - is,

"You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand about the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?"

And the "gospel standards" asked about are,

1.) The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between one man and one woman.

2.) The law of tithing.

3.)The Word of Wisdom.

4.) The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to others.

Asking if the potential convert has a willingness to pay tithing is hardly a commitment.

Also - I claimed that no one was required to give any time, effort, talent or money. So what did I say that was false?

Expressing a willingness to live up to these standards is not at all a required commitment to give anything.

So....members have to pay a $100 BILLION organization because....faith?

Everything the Church asks members to do is due to faith and living revelation.

You clearly don’t under mat and the Creed.

What?

 

[Watchmen]

This is not accurate.

The Baptism Interview question concerning tithing - and other "gospel standards" - is,

"You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand about the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?"

And the "gospel standards" asked about are,

2.) The law of tithing.

Asking if the potential convert has a willingness to pay tithing is hardly a commitment.

You proved my point again. To get into the Church you have to commit to paying tithing. Expressing a willingness is the same as making a commitment. Your playing semantics. If someone says they are NOT willing to pay tithing them the DO NOT get baptized.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You proved my point again. To get into the Church you have to commit to paying tithing. Expressing a willingness is the same as making a commitment. Your playing semantics. If someone says they are NOT willing to pay tithing them the DO NOT get baptized.

No one needs to pay tithing to get baptized.

In order to get baptized a person needs to show a willingness to keep the standards set by God.

If someone says that they are not willing to keep the Law of Chastity as it was described to them - they will not get baptized - because they don't want to be members of His Church.

Faithful members of His Church have a willingness to keep the Law of Chastity.

If they say that they are willing to keep the Law of Chastity - they can get baptized - because they have a willingness to live by His standards.

If they mess up and and commit fornication after baptism - they remain baptized members of the Church - but they will be encouraged to repent and to keep the Law of Chastity.

If someone says that they are not willing to keep the Word of Wisdom as it was described to them - they will not get baptized - because they don't want to be members of His Church.

Faithful members of His Church have a willingness to keep the Word of Wisdom.

If they say that they are willing to keep the Word of Wisdom - they can get baptized - because they have a willingness to live by His standards.

If they mess up and smoke a cigarette after baptism - they remain baptized members of the Church - but they will be encouraged to repent and to keep the Word of Wisdom.

If someone says that they are not willing to keep the Sabbath Day holy as it was described to them - they will not get baptized - because they don't want to be members of His Church.

Faithful members of His Church have a willingness to keep the Sabbath Day holy.

If they say that they are willing to keep the Sabbath Day holy - they can get baptized - because they have a willingness to live by His standards.

If they mess up and stop coming to Church or rendering service after baptism - they remain baptized members of the Church - but they will be encouraged to repent and to keep the Sabbath Day holy.

If someone says that they are not willing to pay their tithes as it was described to them - they will not get baptized - because they don't want to be members of His Church.

Faithful members of His Church have a willingness to pay their tithes.

If they say that they are willing to pay their tithes - they can get baptized - because they have a willingness to live by His standards.

If they never once pay any tithing after baptism - they remain baptized members of the Church - but they will be encouraged to repent and to pay their tithes.

These are all standards that God has asked faithful members of His Church to keep.

All they need in order to join His Church is a willingness to follow His standards.

If they have no willingness to do as He says - then they obviously do not wish to be members of His Church - so nothing is denied them.

If they have a willingness to do as He says - but are unable to follow through after being baptized - they remain members of His Church - but they will be encouraged to repent and do as He commands.

God commands that members of His Church pay tithes.

I understand that you do not like this fact - but you have yet to provide any reason to believe that it is immoral for God to ask members of His Church to pay tithes.

You also have yet to provide any reason to believe that it is immoral for God's church to have $100 billion.