Men and women have different fates

[Burchfam]

And what would those results be?

I read a brief overview of your faith before I posted, but thanks again for the info.

You still haven't answered my questions though.

Why can't men attain spiritual enlightenment?

I'm sorry I thought you said you couldn't access my site which is why I posted it here. As to why men can't attain spiritual enlightenment, I actually don't know. We are taught that this is the case, and there must be a reason for it. I suspect its their physical make-up, but this is necessary for the propogation of the species.

 

[Pardus]

I only want what is possible. I did not set things up this way.

Sounds like you are not trying to fix things anymore, forget feminism, try equalism.

You want to be treated equally, treat others equally or to quote ghandi "be the change you want to see in the world".

Is the fact that i regularly wear a skirt make me more feminine? does it make me any less straight?

 

[Burchfam]

Sounds like you are not trying to fix things anymore, forget feminism, try equalism.

You want to be treated equally, treat others equally or to quote ghandi "be the change you want to see in the world".

Is the fact that i regularly wear a skirt make me more feminine? does it make me any less straight?

I have never asked to be treated "equally" (whatever that means). I'm not sure what you mean about skirt-wearing, but I am neither straight nor gay.

 

[Rejected]

I'm sorry I thought you said you couldn't access my site which is why I posted it here. As to why men can't attain spiritual enlightenment, I actually don't know. We are taught that this is the case, and there must be a reason for it. I suspect its their physical make-up, but this is necessary for the propogation of the species.

Wiki knows everything.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I promise, and I apologize if I’ve ruffled any feathers. I just have a very hard time believing anything that makes absolute claims about reality (physical or spiritual) without hard evidence or observable results. Do you know if your scripture describes why/how men are prohibited from spiritual progression?

You say "we are taught" but to me teaching someone involves describing the workings, the how and the why, of what is being taught. Otherwise you are being told something.

 

[sojourner]

It almost sounds like a militant form of Christian feminism, with elements of other religions thrown in for good measure, because of the representation of strong women in the divine pantheon.

 

[Burchfam]

Wiki knows everything.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I promise, and I apologize if I’ve ruffled any feathers. I just have a very hard time believing anything that makes absolute claims about reality (physical or spiritual) without hard evidence or observable results. Do you know if your scripture describes why/how men are prohibited from spiritual progression?

You say "we are taught" but to me teaching someone involves describing the workings, the how and the why, of what is being taught. Otherwise you are being told something.

Our scripture allots functions to men in society such as warrior. All spiritual duties are alloted to women. It doesn't say why.

 

[Burchfam]

It almost sounds like a militant form of Christian feminism, with elements of other religions thrown in for good measure, because of the representation of strong women in the divine pantheon.

We are not Christian though.

 

[Pardus]

I have never asked to be treated "equally" (whatever that means).

Ahh so you wish to promote sexism, because it is the way things are.

I'm not sure what you mean about skirt-wearing, but I am neither straight nor gay.

I am making the point that sexism exists against men too, and these days men are more disadvantaged by sexism than females are.

 

[Burchfam]

Ahh so you wish to promote sexism, because it is the way things are.



I am making the point that sexism exists against men too, and these days men are more disadvantaged by sexism than females are.

I avoid political stances such as this. I am fully prepared to admit that men are better at some things than women, mostly physical things but also things to do with logic and analytical thought. For this reason they are better suited to some jobs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I suppose men are just built differently. Perhaps they really don't have that ability and that is just part of how they are.

Personally, I am highly insulted by such a claim, that men are unable to transcend this real, with a sole reasoning of "that is just part of how they are."
Physically different, yes. Spiritually however, gender is unknown.

Our scripture allots functions to men in society such as warrior. All spiritual duties are alloted to women. It doesn't say why.

I can personally assure you, as a Reiki II practitioner, as one who uses Nocturnal energies, and performes divination with good accuracy, men are equal with women with spiritual performances.

 

[Mr. Hair]

In Famism we are taught that only women have the inate ability to transend the physical realm if they so choose.

Interesting, I'm particularly intrigued by that last bit. (Bolded for yayness )

Choice implies informed consent; does this mean than that you believe in some varitation of immanent knowledge or perspective, a form of gnosis if you will, that is readily available but not immediatly apparant? In other words, does this enlightenment come from an outer existence that only women tap into, or does it spring forth from some intuitive peculiarity of the female? Out of interest, how do you define and determine the "spiritual realm", which from your posts I presume you believe exists seperate from the physical?

Most importantly, why do you think this is so?

I know this must be very controversial, but if the universe really is set up this way then there is nothing that can be done about it. We have to make the most of what we've got.

*smiles* Just so.

Ignoring the pleasures of physical existence enables us to rise above it.

But surely by 'ignoring' the physical one still remains enveloped within it, as one is still defining and shaping oneself and one's perspective of oneself through an attachment to the temporal? (In essence, one shifts from 'wanting' to 'not-wanting', but the underlying connection to 'the physical' remains)

(I think I got stuck in a slight loop of 'oneness' there... )

The authenticity of the book is proven by its results.

In that case, please show such results. I hope I'm not yet so cloistered in my ivory tower that I would reject any legitimate challenges to my beliefs merely out of comfort.

 

[Random]

First off, let me say I appreciate what you're trying to do here, Burchfam: I also enjoyed reading the material on your Famism site.

It is said that the goal of Famism is to achive total female liberation from male dominance: this is admirable in all respects, but falls short of the mark when it is asserted in support of this goal that men can only be warriors and spirituality is the exclusive purvue of women.

My opinion is that of all the relative truths there are that can be known, the only ones that can be considered truly spiritual are the genderless ones, the ones for which maleness or femaleness are invariables. What I believe is that Truth is neither male nor female, but applicable to both equally.

A woman has the unique experience of bearing and birthing newborn life into the world: it is certain a man can never know this connection or experience this wonder. A woman can nurture and love more intimately than a man: this also is true, especailly of the child.

It can seem like all a mans strength, intellect and desire bring him are strife and conflict upon which, perversely, he seems to thrive. It is natual upon realizing this to crave the soft, gentle guidance of a maternal hand: to say outright that perhaps it would be better if the females had the power.

But the real world does not work like that: men create the power and decide who gets it and keeps it and profits by it: women can acquire it only by virtue of sturctures and systems men erect. That is unfortunate, and not to diminish the contribution of women to socitey and law in anyway, but just how it is.

Like Famists, I believe also that this was not always so: indeed, I sympathize. But talk of prehistoric or ancient matriarchates or the usurping of female-power will never be accepted in the mainstream. One cannot win: history cannot be changed now.

My point is that women and men take different paths to the same truth: and where the sexes meet is in the wisdom of their unity. Even in the context of your beliefs, i think you can find a similar answer, ultimately.

Once again, thanks, really good thread.

 

[vandervalley]

So in ur faith 'Famism'

What happens to a man and a woman when they die?

Do Famists believe in heaven and hell or rebirth?

 

[Burchfam]

Interesting, I'm particularly intrigued by that last bit. (Bolded for yayness )

Choice implies informed consent; does this mean than that you believe in some varitation of immanent knowledge or perspective, a form of gnosis if you will, that is readily available but not immediatly apparant? In other words, does this enlightenment come from an outer existence that only women tap into, or does it spring forth from some intuitive peculiarity of the female? Out of interest, how do you define and determine the "spiritual realm", which from your posts I presume you believe exists seperate from the physical?

Most importantly, why do you think this is so?

*smiles* Just so.


But surely by 'ignoring' the physical one still remains enveloped within it, as one is still defining and shaping oneself and one's perspective of oneself through an attachment to the temporal? (In essence, one shifts from 'wanting' to 'not-wanting', but the underlying connection to 'the physical' remains)

(I think I got stuck in a slight loop of 'oneness' there... )


In that case, please show such results. I hope I'm not yet so cloistered in my ivory tower that I would reject any legitimate challenges to my beliefs merely out of comfort.

Yes, we are taught that only women have the inate ability to tap into this knowledge. As for the results, they are manifested in my own personal life and those of others who follow this path, and consist of an infinite sense of transcending the physical and communing with the divine.

 

[Burchfam]

So in ur faith 'Famism'

What happens to a man and a woman when they die?

Do Famists believe in heaven and hell or rebirth?

Nothing happens to them. They just die and that's it. However the Goddess Frya has invited women to emulate her, and if they do they can join her for all eternity. We are told in our sacred book that Frya ascended to the heavens at death, and went to a star, or watch-star as it is called, and is watching us from there. The goal of Famists is to be as like Frya as possible, so that we too will have such a fate.

 

[gnomon]

We have to follow our path.

No, you don't.

Why won't people ever realize that. I'm not saying you can't choose to just that there is never this valid concept of "have to".

I'm sorry, but I would honestly say more about this but it would only get deleted or heavily edited.

 

[Pardus]

I find such a belief as bad as individuals who teach intolerance of other religions or races based on religious belief.

 

[RevOxley_501]

Burchfam, how many adherants are there to your faith? Do men have spouses that adhere or is that out of the question?

is that you in your avatar? cus i have to say--WOW

 

[Burchfam]

Burchfam, how many adherants are there to your faith? Do men have spouses that adhere or is that out of the question?

is that you in your avatar? cus i have to say--WOW

I have to say that I don't know how many Famists there are altogether. There is no central authority.

Yes that is me in the picture.

 

[sojourner]

Nothing happens to them. They just die and that's it. However the Goddess Frya has invited women to emulate her, and if they do they can join her for all eternity. We are told in our sacred book that Frya ascended to the heavens at death, and went to a star, or watch-star as it is called, and is watching us from there. The goal of Famists is to be as like Frya as possible, so that we too will have such a fate.

Am I to assume that the attraction of this religion -- the thrust of this religion -- is to give you focus for this life, and not particularly an afterlife? One betters oneself, not having the goal of eternity in mind?