Maybe its not misinformation, but rather doublespeak.

[SomeRandom]

Public opinion differs from the leaked SCOTUS opinion.
Ultimately, the former drives the latter.
I'm optimistic, the intervening chaos notwithstanding.

I know that. But public opinion was sour on Trump and he was still your president elect for four years due to your electoral processes all the same. So public opinion seems to be trumped anyway in the US (and in my own country to a degree) just in general.

I now see folks saying the government shouldn’t have just relied on Roe for so long.
I guess not being American, all these years I just assumed R v W was a actually a law protecting abortion in general. I didn’t realise it was more about privacy (?) than anything else.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know that. But public opinion was sour on Trump and he was still your president elect for four years due to your electoral processes all the same. So public opinion seems to be trumped anyway in the US (and in my own country to a degree) just in general.

I now see folks saying the government shouldn’t have just relied on Roe for so long.
I guess not being American, all these years I just assumed R v W was a actually a law protecting abortion in general. I didn’t realise it was more about privacy (?) than anything else.

Public opinion has a probabilistic effect, not a
deterministic one. So patience is useful.
The "privacy" argument struck me as very weak.
I thought the 9th Amendment was stronger.
But it too could easily fall under a conservative
Christian dominated court.

 

[SomeRandom]

Public opinion has a probabilistic effect, not a
deterministic one. So patience is useful.
The "privacy" argument struck me as very weak.
I thought the 9th Amendment was stronger.
But it too could easily fall under a conservative
Christian dominated court.

What’s the 9th amendment?

 

[Revoltingest]

What’s the 9th amendment?

It's one of my favorites....
Ninth Amendment
Exercepted....
Ninth Amendment
The Ninth Amendment was James Madison’s attempt to ensure that the Bill of Rights was not seen as granting to the people of the United States only the specific rights it addressed. In recent years, some have interpreted it as affirming the existence of such “unenumerated” rights outside those expressly protected by the Bill of Rights.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

[SomeRandom]

It's one of my favorites....
Ninth Amendment
Exercepted....
Ninth Amendment
The Ninth Amendment was James Madison’s attempt to ensure that the Bill of Rights was not seen as granting to the people of the United States only the specific rights it addressed. In recent years, some have interpreted it as affirming the existence of such “unenumerated” rights outside those expressly protected by the Bill of Rights.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Oh.
How does that relate to abortion rights though?

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh.
How does that relate to abortion rights though?

The court could've recognized abortion as a right that wasn't
enumerated in the Bill Of Rights or subsequent amendments.
The founders didn't envision it at the time because medicine
was more primitive....it could be argued.

I imagine that if SCOTUS had ruled in Roe v Wade based
upon this amendment, it would be more durable. The privacy
argument could be argued to be mistaken. But over-ruling an
argument based upon the 9th would mean saying that an
un-enumerated right formerly recognized, should be taken away.
This strikes me as a higher hurdle for the court's fundies.
And it could be more easily reversed once SCOTUS make-up
becomes progressive, ie, libertarian.

This is just my speculation.

 

[SomeRandom]

I imagine that if SCOTUS had ruled in Roe v Wade based
upon this amendment, it would be more durable. The privacy
argument could be argued to be mistaken. But over-ruling an
argument based upon the 9th would mean saying that an
un-enumerated right formerly recognized, should be taken away.
This strikes me as a higher hurdle for the court's fundies.
And it could be more easily reversed once SCOTUS make-up
becomes progressive, ie, libertarian.

This is just my speculation.

Forgive me but your constitution seems rather arbitrarily complicated
I mean we have our own constitution of sorts. But it’s not as umm worshiped as the US is
No offence

 

[Revoltingest]

Forgive me but your constitution seems rather arbitrarily complicated
I mean we have our own constitution of sorts. But it’s not as umm worshiped as the US is
No offence

"Worship" is entirely the wrong word. It's not handed
from on high by God. It's not "true" nor is it factual.
The Constitution is the agreed upon basis for how
government operates, & the rights that we enjoy.
If you think government should have the authority to
just set it aside, then what protections do we have from
authoritarianism?
So think of the Constitution as a fundamental set of
laws that we're loath to allow abridged. Does your
constitution work differently, ie, is it weaker or not
so strong a basis for government & civil liberties?

 

[SomeRandom]

"Worship" is entirely the wrong word. It's not handed
from on high by God. It's not "true" nor is it factual.
The Constitution is the agreed upon basis for how
government operates, & the rights that we enjoy.
If you think government should have the authority to
just set it aside, then what protections do we have from
authoritarianism?
So think of the Constitution as a fundamental set of
laws that we're loath to allow abridged. Does your
constitution work differently, ie, is it weaker or not
so strong a basis for government & civil liberties?

Given that there seem to be “constitution loyalists” among the ranks of US politicians (and this was a talking point for years) I’m not so sure.
The reverence to the text does seem to equal that of the Fervour for religious texts.
Again that’s just the impression I have gotten from American politicians over the years

Interestingly that was the most common justification I saw used when known avowed Republicans didn’t back Trump and the insurrectionists during the last election.
Which I thought was a bit odd, but whatever

 

[Revoltingest]

Given that there seem to be “constitution loyalists” among the ranks of US politicians (and this was a talking point for years) I’m not so sure.

We also have many politicians who couldn't give a
flying **** about the Constitution or civil liberties.
Fortunately, SCOTUS is a bulwark against their
corrupt proclivities....usually.

The reverence to the text does seem to equal that of the Fervour for religious texts.

"Reverence" is what you see.
Do you not revere civil liberties?
Should lawmakers be able to end them by fiat?
Is there anything you revere about the law or rights?

Interestingly that was the most common justification I saw used when known avowed Republicans didn’t back Trump and the insurrectionists during the last election.
Which I thought was a bit odd, but whatever

Do you think they should've just let Trump ignore
the Constitution, & take the presidency by coup?

So think of the Constitution as a fundamental set of
laws that we're loath to allow abridged. Does your
constitution work differently, ie, is it weaker or not
so strong a basis for government & civil liberties?

 

[SomeRandom]

We also have many politicians who couldn't give a
flying **** about the Constitution or civil liberties.
Fortunately, SCOTUS is a bulwark against their
corrupt proclivities....usually.

Yeah I get the sense that the reverence comes more on one side than the other, if that makes sense?

"Reverence" is what you see.
Do you not revere civil liberties?
Should lawmakers be able to end them by fiat?
Is there anything you revere about the law or rights?

Umm no. Of course not
I don’t revere any civil liberties. Why would I?
They are but laws. I’ve never needed to revere them. They are naught but ethical responsibilities of a civil society. One that ought to be always held accountable by the people and should reflect compassion and the personhood of all who live there
I do actually sincerely believe that

Why would I revere civil liberties? Because I’m mixed race?
Why would I bother to give reverence to flawed man made laws that are subject to correction over time? Wtf? Bugger them. I don’t need the government to tell me to treat others with compassion and decency just because they have differing pigmentation. That’s kind of sick, ngl
Seriously wtf?

Do you think they should've just let Trump ignore
the Constitution, & take the presidency by coup?

I think those who opposed him are honest and are loyal to the voice of the people. Such politicians should be given faint praise, at least lol

So think of the Constitution as a fundamental set of
laws that we're loath to allow abridged. Does your
constitution work differently, ie, is it weaker or not
so strong a basis for government & civil liberties?

Our constitution I think works roughly the same as yours. It guarantees a government that is beholden to the voice of the people, guarantees liberties and freedoms afforded to all legal citizens. It disallows discrimination and other forms of mistreatment of minorities.
It guarantees freedom, justice and a right to one’s own opinions without government interference.

Though the way you hear some US politicians talk on it, they make it seem like our constitution is but slavery. So, I dunno. Maybe our lack of overly zealous appeal to shallow shouts of freedom don’t cut it

Land of the free. Pfft. Give me a break

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah I get the sense that the reverence comes more on one side than the other, if that makes sense?

I see both sides viewing it differently, & revering it when
it suits them. When it doesn't, it becomes irrelevant.

Umm no. Of course not
I don’t revere any civil liberties. Why would I?
They are but laws. I’ve never needed to revere them. They are naught but ethical responsibilities of a civil society. One that ought to be always held accountable by the people and should reflect compassion and the personhood of all who live there
I do actually sincerely believe that

It seems that I value civil rights & liberties more than you do.
That's OK. You're not wrong. But I think you take them for
granted. Adverse circumstances can arise, & personally greatly
affect one's view.
I do OK. But I look about, & I see that the liberties of many
others are under continual assault. This concerns me, & so
I advocate for enforcing the Constitution to improve their lot.

Why would I revere civil liberties? Because I’m mixed race?

Because you're human.

Why would I bother to give reverence to flawed man made laws that are subject to correction over time? Wtf? Bugger them. I don’t need the government to tell me to treat others with compassion and decency just because they have differing pigmentation. That’s kind of sick, ngl
Seriously wtf?

The laws usefulness isn't about who wrote them.
It's about what purpose they serve.
You've mentioned race several times. I see rights
as universal, & essential for not just minorities.
We in the majority don't want to be stepped on
either, which happens....a lot.

I think those who opposed him are honest and are loyal to the voice of the people. Such politicians should be given faint praise, at least lol

Praise, even faint, for an illegal coup that would
overthrow the duly elected President? Oh, dear.

Our constitution I think works roughly the same as yours. It guarantees a government that is beholden to the voice of the people, guarantees liberties and freedoms afforded to all legal citizens. It disallows discrimination and other forms of mistreatment of minorities.

What about the rights of non-minorities? Are their rights
less or just different? (I know not where you live.

It guarantees freedom, justice and a right to one’s own opinions without government interference.

Do you value that & other rights?

Though the way you hear some US politicians talk on it, they make it seem like our constitution is but slavery. So, I dunno. Maybe our lack of overly zealous appeal to shallow shouts of freedom don’t cut it

What has who said?

Land of the free. Pfft. Give me a break

What does this mean? Disbelief in
freedom or contempt for it?

 

[SomeRandom]

I see both sides viewing it differently, & revering it when
it suits them. When it doesn't, it becomes irrelevant.

Well that’s politics
But when push came to shove, the republic party did value loyalty to the constitution overall. Showing more reverence

It seems that I value civil rights & liberties more than you do.
That's OK. You're not wrong. But I think you take them for
granted. Adverse circumstances can arise, & personally greatly
affect one's view..

I do OK. But I look about, & I see that the liberties of many
others are under continual assault. This concerns me, & so
I advocate for enforcing the Constitution to improve their lot.

I hold civil liberties as paramount. That you need me to revere them to do such say’s more about you than me. I don’t need them to be revered so don’t need them to be etched in stone like the 10 commandments mind you apparently need them to be says far more about you than it does me.

What? Do you need them to be etched in stone or something to take them seriously?

I don’t need that to be the case to value civil liberties.
That you do says a lot about you.

Because you're human.

Because I value logic

The laws usefulness isn't about who wrote them.
It's about what purpose they serve.
You've mentioned race several times. I see rights
as universal, & essential for not just minorities.
We in the majority don't want to be stepped on
either, which happens....a lot.

I agree

Praise, even faint, for an illegal coup that would
overthrow the duly elected President? Oh, dear.
I can’t comment since I’m unfamiliar with your electoral processes

What about the rights of non-minorities? Are their rights
less or just different? (I know not where you live.

Every deserves a voice in the electoral government. Would you disagree?

Do you value that & other rights?
I value all rights. What about you!

Who had said that specifically?

Various YouTuber streamers I follow and indeed the news stations in my country. Sorry but we see your craziness as if is
No one is gonna sugar coat that

What does this mean? Disbelief in
freedom or contempt for it?

Look at YouTube

[/QUOTE]

 

[Revoltingest]

Well that’s politics
But when push came to shove, the republic party did value loyalty to the constitution overall. Showing more reverence

You call it "reverence", perhaps derisively.
Another view is that they didn't want to
commit treason...which could possibly
bite them in the pigu later.

I hold civil liberties as paramount. That you need me to revere them to do such say’s more about you than me.

It's a distinction without a difference to say you
"hold civil liberties paramount" as opposed to
"revere" them. Ironic, given the title of this thread.

BTW, your post is hard to read cuz
its quotations are all messed up.

 

[SomeRandom]

You call it "reverence", perhaps derisively.
Another view is that they didn't want to
commit treason...which could possibly
bite them in the pigu later.

How would it be treason?
I thought you guys weren’t British.

It's a distinction without a difference to say you
"hold civil liberties paramount" as opposed to
"revere" them. Ironic, given the title of this thread.

I hold them in somewhat high regard I guess???
I’ve never in my life revered them. Perhaps that’s an American thing???
Revering mere laws as if god given lol

BTW, your post is hard to read cuz
its quotations are all messed up.

Yeah sorry my phone decided to be a pain

 

[Revoltingest]

How would it be treason?
I thought you guys weren’t British.

We needn't be Limeys to consider
subverting an election to be treason.

I hold them in somewhat high regard I guess???
I’ve never in my life revered them. Perhaps that’s an American thing???

You're the one applying those labels for the
purpose of dissing our regard for our Constitution,
but praising your regard for your constitution.
Can't blame Ameristan for that mischief.

Revering mere laws as if god given lol

Making it about god & religion is merely
your insult for our pursuit of constitutional
liberties. Word games....can't you do better?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I agree.
I am a pragmatist at heart. I can compartmentalise my moral beliefs and my ethical positions. Hence my position on abortion. Morally I am against it. Ethically speaking, I am fervently pro choice, due to the overall outcomes. As I see it.

It’s taken me a while to strengthen my “inner consistency.” By that I mean, I try my best to work out the flaws in my positions and see if I can tighten them up a tad.
I no doubt have a long way to go in that regard. But I try my best to play devil’s advocate on many issues to see where I personally fall in the long run.

Personally speaking, I’ve found dogmatic positions to be far too rigid and fails to allow even the possibility of being wrong. Which I think is not a useful position to hold, logically speaking.
People are of course free to do so. I just think it’s very dangerous thinking.
I fell into that trap many times myself. Much to my regret

Yeah, in practice there is no perfect system. It is about figuring what is going on and weighing options. That is how I see it.

 

[SomeRandom]

We needn't be Limeys to consider
subverting an election to be treason.

Awww You can do that all by yourselves
Should be proud

You're the one applying those labels for the
purpose of dissing our regard for our Constitution,
but praising your regard for your constitution.
Can't blame Ameristan for that mischief.

Ahh I’m only poking fun. Yank. Don’t be so sensitive

Making it about god & religion is merely
your insult for our pursuit of constitutional
liberties. Word games....can't you do better?

I could care less about my own constitution much less yours.
See? You guys worship your constitution so much you can’t even joke about it. Geez
Proved my point for me

 

[Revoltingest]

I could care less about my own constitution much less yours.

Some people are just less engaged than
others regarding a country's behavior &
our civil liberties. And some of us more so.

For those less concerned to disparage those
who care more seems the worst kind of cynical.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I could care less about my own constitution much less yours.

Actually that what the Confederacy maintained as it rebelled against the Union.