Many different religious opinions

[SalixIncendium]

Reality is easy, it can be physically weighed, measured, observed to exist.

Can your dream self physically weigh, measure, and observe things in your dream? Does that make the dream ‘reality?’

I can't say I've heard the same for any supernatural religion. Unless you know different.

Which religions are the “supernatural” ones?

 

[ChristineM]

Can your dream self physically weigh, measure, and observe things in your dream? Does that make the dream ‘reality?

The ability to dream is real what you dream is not, a dream is imaginary.

Which religions are the “supernatural” ones?

To me, all of them.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And do you accept the obvious corollary? Let's take the issue of good health and longevity, for exampe. What, in the end, is the reason that some men in a given family seem to enjoy long and healthy lives, while some do not? If you are going to thank something for the gift of a long, healthy life, what or who do you blame for those who mysteriously were left out?

Sometimes, things just are what they are. Inheriting "good genes" isn't a given, and you can't point to anyone or anything that decides which of your father's DNA met up with which of your mother's.

As to your point about the mystery remaining, and thus why not label it -- I put it to you that it already has a label: the one you gave it first -- mystery. That's the problem, we humans just find it so damned hard to say "I don't know." So we invent stuff, make up labels and concepts that seem to explain, but in fact explain nothing.

I can't speak for everybody, but many believe life is a gift. From a superior force. With intelligence. If I understood it all I'd be God. If it is not realized as a gift most of us would not be sorrowful and unhappy when the gift is taken away or removed.

That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't do anything about answering the question, does it?

 

[SalixIncendium]

The ability to dream is real what you dream is not, a dream is imaginary.

You didn't answer either one of my questions.

If you fall asleep in your dream, and you have the ability to dream in your dream, does that render that ability real?

When you are dreaming, does your dream-self know the dream reality is imaginary?

 

[ChristineM]

You didn't answer either one of my questions.

If you fall asleep in your dream, and you have the ability to dream in your dream, does that render that ability real?

When you are dreaming, does your dream-self know the dream reality is imaginary?

The answers to the questions...

Question

Can your dream self physically weigh, measure, and observe things in your dream? Does that make the dream ‘reality?’

Answer

The ability to dream is real what you dream is not, a dream is imaginary.

Question

Which religions are the “supernatural” ones?

Answer

To me, all of them.

Moving the goalposts does not mean i didn't answer your questions

 

[SalixIncendium]

Moving the goalposts does not mean i didn't answer your questions

You're right. Moving goal posts does not mean you didn't answer my questions. The doublespeak in the response, however, does.


How does this...

The ability to dream is real what you dream is not, a dream is imaginary.

...answer this?

Can your dream self physically weigh, measure, and observe things in your dream? Does that make the dream ‘reality?’

I asked you two yes or no questions. There is no yes or no answer in your response. I didn't ask you about ability to dream. You decided to deflect and offer a response that had nothing to do with what I asked.

Kind of a shame, really. This might have been a productive and educational discourse.

 

[ChristineM]

You're right. Moving goal posts does not mean you didn't answer my questions. The doublespeak in the response, however, does.


How does this...


...answer this?


I asked you two yes or no questions. There is no yes or no answer in your response. I didn't ask you about ability to dream. You decided to deflect and offer a response that had nothing to do with what I asked.

Kind of a shame, really. This might have been a productive and educational discourse.

I gave more than a yes or no answer because i did not consider them yes or no questions, not was that limitation explained.

Your 2 questions are in post 124, subsiquent to my answers to your previous 2 questions in post 122 that you denied i answered. Such tactics caution me against getting deeper.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I gave more than a yes or no answer because i did not consider them yes or no questions, not was that limitation explained.

Your 2 questions are in post 124, subsiquent to my answers to your previous 2 questions in post 122 that you denied i answered. Such tactics caution me against getting deeper.

If you chose not to answer my two questions in post 124, that's your prerogative. I have no issue with your not answering them. If you don't want to go deeper, that's your choice. I have no intention of dragging anyone down the rabbit hole unwillingly.

My issue lies with your claim that you "gave more than a yes or no answer." There was no "more than." You never answered yes or no. You chose to deflect and make a statement that had nothing to do with what was asked. So it was "other than," not "more than."

 

[ChristineM]

If you chose not to answer my two questions in post 124, that's your prerogative. I have no issue with your not answering them. If you don't want to go deeper, that's your choice. I have no intention of dragging anyone down the rabbit hole unwillingly.

My issue lies with your claim that you "gave more than a yes or no answer." There was no "more than." You never answered yes or no. You chose to deflect and make a statement that had nothing to do with what was asked. So it was "other than," not "more than."

Eh?

Of course there was more than, i gave more, you never requested yes or no answer. I answered to the best of my knowledge

 

[Alien826]

That's only ONE dictionary definition of the word. As with many words, there are more than one definition. And to my mind, what you are describing here belief, not faith. Thanks to the persistent dishonesty of some religions, these terms have become synonymous when they are not really synonyms at all. Faith is something quite different than belief. That difference being the recognition of and appreciation of doubt (as in faith), as opposed to the blind denial of doubt (as with belief).

faith
1 of 2
noun
ˈfāth


plural faiths ˈfāths

sometimes ˈfāt͟hz
1
a
: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
lost faith in the company's president
b(1)
: fidelity to one's promises
(2)
: sincerity of intentions
acted in good faith
2
a(1)
: belief and trust in and loyalty to God
(2)
: belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b(1)
: firm belief in something for which there is no proof
clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return
(2)
: complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction
especially : a system of religious beliefs
the Protestant faith

None of the above definitions say anything about having doubt in one's beliefs. Quite the contrary in fact.

Keep in mind that these are all also actually generators of and excuses for bias. We flip the coin 3 times and get heads 2 of the 3. And so now we think we can expect to see heads on the next flip of the coin. And that's a very simple example. It becomes far more complex and entrenched when we're talking about presumptions of the "truth of reality". Because those presumptions are being used by our brains to define and understand all our new and incoming experiences of reality. We quite literally see, hear, smell, and touch what we expect to see hear, smell and touch. Because it's those expectations that we are using to define and understand the sensory phenomena we receive. And that a HUGE bias that we routinely ignore.

To say that we don't really know what we presume to know is an understatement. And although I understand this is how the human mind works, and is mostly unavoidable, I think it's still very important to remember just how wrong our minds can be. About anything. No matter how sure we think we are. And in fact, the more sure we think we are, the greater the bias.

When we make predictions based on prior experience aren't we attempting to minimize these presumptions? Surely experiencing the same thing over and over in the same or similar circumstances, plus others reporting the same experience counts for something? I agree that we will never get a totally accurate picture of reality, but you seem to be saying that everything is inaccurate presumption. Or are you?

Also, if you are correct, where do we go from there? Should I not bother to finish this response because I can't be sure you exist?

 

[Heyo]

I fully believe, from my own experiences and those of others, that there is global unity and brotherhood among the 8.7 million members who worship Jehovah (through Christ) as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Yep, because they are quick to expel any heretics. It seems there are only three ways: 1. Allow diversity - which results in splitting. 2. Insist on dogma - which is dictatorial. 3. Teach what you know and admit when you don't know (the scientific approach) - which is very expensive and demands dedication.

 

[YoursTrue]

Many different religious opinions



Irrelevant, as you talk about opinions
When you talk about facts then truth "can enter"

Different opinions imply different Paths
Different Paths imply "it's not Truth, just the way to"

Paths are the ways to get to the Truth
Knowing your Path has nothing to do with knowing Truth

Agreed that opinions may not be the right word, but must be put in context.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yep, because they are quick to expel any heretics. It seems there are only three ways: 1. Allow diversity - which results in splitting. 2. Insist on dogma - which is dictatorial. 3. Teach what you know and admit when you don't know (the scientific approach) - which is very expensive and demands dedication.

If, for instance, I were a Roman Catholic but expressed dissidence from what is held as core belief within that religion, how would that be unity?

 

[YoursTrue]

Many different religious opinions



Irrelevant, as you talk about opinions
When you talk about facts then truth "can enter"

Different opinions imply different Paths
Different Paths imply "it's not Truth, just the way to"

Paths are the ways to get to the Truth
Knowing your Path has nothing to do with knowing Truth

What truths or truth have you discovered?

 

[YoursTrue]

That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't do anything about answering the question, does it?

I understand the dilemma between someone who lives a "good and healthy life" and someone who is sickly and perhaps mistreated. We inherit misfortune sometimes, sad to say, because some are born into an abusive family and other unfortunate circumstances. And that is, of course, sad. Very sad. If I experience something that makes me happy I do thank God for it. If I experience something that makes me sad, I ask God for help to endure. And I do keep praying and looking forward to the fulfillment of Jesus' prayer when he said, "Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven." So I know that God's will is not in its complete fulfillment now but will be.

 

[Heyo]

If, for instance, I were a Roman Catholic but expressed dissidence from what is held as core belief within that religion, how would that be unity?

The RCC has tried everything over its lifetime, they have burned heretics, they had elaborate synods and it seems they have come to the conclusion that they can handle a little diversity within the fold while maintaining an official line.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I understand the dilemma between someone who lives a "good and healthy life" and someone who is sickly and perhaps mistreated. We inherit misfortune sometimes, sad to say, because some are born into an abusive family and other unfortunate circumstances. And that is, of course, sad. Very sad. If I experience something that makes me happy I do thank God for it. If I experience something that makes me sad, I ask God for help to endure. And I do keep praying and looking forward to the fulfillment of Jesus' prayer when he said, "Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven." So I know that God's will is not in its complete fulfillment now but will be.

Seems bizarre to me, God gets the credit for anything good that happens, but not for anything bad. It's like supposing that you should thank your mother for making cookies, and blame somebody else when she has a couple too many and beats the crap out of you. You may make some sense out of your life, but it will have nothing to do with the truth.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Can your dream self physically weigh, measure, and observe things in your dream? Does that make the dream ‘reality?’

Your dream self cannot "physically" do anything at all, because it is not itself physical. It is a mental state.

The dream, however, being a mental state, is as real as that mental state itself.

Which religions are the “supernatural” ones?

Every religion which makes claims that cannot, even in principle, be validated by some natural means.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Your dream self cannot "physically" do anything at all, because it is not itself physical. It is a mental state.

The dream, however, being a mental state, is as real as that mental state itself.

And your dream-self is aware of this while dreaming?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And your dream-self is aware of this while dreaming?

Sometimes -- not very often. That's called "lucid dreaming."