No doubt it’s a complicated issue. I believe today’s announcement is a good one.
Fina bans trans swimmers from women's elite events - BBC Sport
Fina bans trans swimmers from women's elite events - BBC Sport
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Great news.
The trans-female argument is that they have not yet won a gold medal against cis-females so it is already fair. But the problem with that argument is they're talking about competing against cis-females of the highest levels: locally and regionally may be another story.
No doubt it’s a complicated issue. I believe today’s announcement is a good one.
Fina bans trans swimmers from women's elite events - BBC Sport
Oh FTM folk don't exist don't you know? This goes for bathrooms and sports./sarcasmYou know what I find funny is we always talk about MTF in sports being unfair, and yet I've never heard anyone ***** about FTM...... Wonder why that is.
Huh. Learn something new everydayOh FTM folk don't exist don't you know? This goes for bathrooms and sports./sarcasm
I won’t pretend to know the ins and outs of this issue.No doubt it’s a complicated issue. I believe today’s announcement is a good one.
Fina bans trans swimmers from women's elite events - BBC Sport
I've made my opinions known on this a little too much to want to do long posts about it. But imo the ruling favors a mythical fairness that doesn't exist in sports. Where it's perfectly fair for people with biological advantages to compete against people who couldn't hope to win against them unless those people are a little too breaking the sacred gender archetypes. (See Caster Semenya, a ciswoman who was also forbidden from play for higher than average natural testosterone, but mutant atheletes like Phelps is a-ok.)I won’t pretend to know the ins and outs of this issue.
But this seems a fair compromise, right?
I think. Evens the playing field and allows for less discrimination?
Well sports science isn’t an exact science due to biology being quite “uneven.”I've made my opinions known on this a little too much to want to do long posts about it. But imo the ruling favors a mythical fairness that doesn't exist in sports. Where it's perfectly fair for people with biological advantages to compete against people who couldn't hope to win against them unless those people are a little too breaking the sacred gender archetypes. (See Caster Semenya, a ciswoman who was also forbidden from play for higher than average natural testosterone, but mutant atheletes like Phelps is a-ok.)
I've made my opinions known on this a little too much to want to do long posts about it. But imo the ruling favors a mythical fairness that doesn't exist in sports. Where it's perfectly fair for people with biological advantages to compete against people who couldn't hope to win against them unless those people are a little too breaking the sacred gender archetypes. (See Caster Semenya, a ciswoman who was also forbidden from play for higher than average natural testosterone, but mutant atheletes like Phelps is a-ok.)
We are all "mutants" and yes part of Phelps' success is that he is genetically very lucky. The problem is that some sports, not all, would be dominated by transfemale athletes given enough time. This is a new science, as I said on the other thread on this, and there are going to be some growing pains.I've made my opinions known on this a little too much to want to do long posts about it. But imo the ruling favors a mythical fairness that doesn't exist in sports. Where it's perfectly fair for people with biological advantages to compete against people who couldn't hope to win against them unless those people are a little too breaking the sacred gender archetypes. (See Caster Semenya, a ciswoman who was also forbidden from play for higher than average natural testosterone, but mutant atheletes like Phelps is a-ok.)
I’ve never attained spiritual enlightenment. Does that bar me from speaking my mind on matters pertaining to spiritual matters?Have you ever competed in sports?
Certain believers seem to think that they hold a patent on spirituality. Perhaps that is because the conflate a belief in their personal God with spirituality. They do not appear to be the same thing to me at all.I’ve never attained spiritual enlightenment. Does that bar me from speaking my mind on matters pertaining to spiritual matters?
Plenty of folks have opinions on subjects where they have no real life experience in. It’s called discussion
I’ve never attained spiritual enlightenment. Does that bar me from speaking my mind on matters pertaining to spiritual matters?
Plenty of folks have opinions on subjects where they have no real life experience in. It’s called discussion
Just a clarification that I didn't mean mutant in a mean way. I agree that we're all mutants. Some mutations when giving an advantage are revered, some reviled.We are all "mutants" and yes part of Phelps' success is that he is genetically very lucky. The problem is that some sports, not all, would be dominated by transfemale athletes given enough time. This is a new science, as I said on the other thread on this, and there are going to be some growing pains.
Just a clarification that I didn't mean mutant in a mean way. I agree that we're all mutants. Some mutations when giving an advantage are revered, some reviled.
Fair enough. But we humans are a talkative bunchThere are certain insights that can only be derived from direct experience.
I don’t know if I necessarily agree. There are cis gendered athletes that have a biological edge. That’s just the reality of human biology. There are and have been athletes that just have a biological edge. Not due to sexual dimorphism but due to their own biological makeup. I think Ian Thorpe has a larger lung capacity than normal, thus allowing him to win many many medals in his distinguished career. If this was based purely on biological fairness, he should have been disqualified from the start. Right?They have tried to make exceptions for transgender people, People whose bodies say that they are male or female and whose brain (including the wiring for that brain) tell them that they are not. Sexual dimorphism is a real thing and they have tried to fix that problem. Testosterone blocking drugs appear to make it fair in some sports, but not all.
Personally if the natural edge one has from being male can be eliminated I am not against transwomen competing against ciswomen. But in some sports that cannot be done if the change occurred after puberty.
I believe that banning certain sports from the list of those where trans athletes can compete is the best solution right now. That may change in the future but it is still better than forcing people to compete on the basis of their sex and not their gender.
I don’t know if I necessarily agree. There are cis gendered athletes that have a biological edge. That’s just the reality of human biology. There are and have been athletes that just have a biological edge. Not due to sexual dimorphism but due to their own biological makeup. For example I think Ian Thorpe has a larger lung capacity than average, thus allowing him to win many many medals in his distinguished career. If this was based purely on biological fairness, he should have been disqualified from the start. Right?They have tried to make exceptions for transgender people, People whose bodies say that they are male or female and whose brain (including the wiring for that brain) tell them that they are not. Sexual dimorphism is a real thing and they have tried to fix that problem. Testosterone blocking drugs appear to make it fair in some sports, but not all.
Personally if the natural edge one has from being male can be eliminated I am not against transwomen competing against ciswomen. But in some sports that cannot be done if the change occurred after puberty.
I believe that banning certain sports from the list of those where trans athletes can compete is the best solution right now. That may change in the future but it is still better than forcing people to compete on the basis of their sex and not their gender.
I am referring to the practice. The training. The sacrifices. The hype, the pep rallies, with everyone there united celebrating the battle to come. The games, the tournaments, the track meets. The glory. The anthems. The sounds of the bands. The scents of athletic equipment, and concession stands. The years spent on the field honing your technique. The years spent in the gym and on the track, increasing your strength, speed, flexibility and endurance. The passion you develop for improving your fitness once you’ve proven what you can achieve, and understand what more you can build up to. The challenges you’ve overcome, mentally and physically. The people you love and hate who you respect regardless because you’ve spilled your blood together and you’ve had each others’ back, and you’ve operated as one to achieve victory. The camaraderie, and the rivalries. The gatherings of people from your city as they show up -whether at home or away- to express their support of everything you’ve trained to do and cheer you on. The sense of pride, when all that training pays off and you achieve victory, time and time again. The pain of loss, and defeat, sometimes soul crushing. The spirit of perseverance. The dreams, the broken dreams, and the dreams fulfilled.Fair enough. But we humans are a talkative bunch
I know I’ve weighed in on subjects such as classical literature a lot over the years. Am I trained to speak about such a subject? Not at all. In fact I’m a complete idiot on the subject. And yet I can still give my thoughts on it. Uneducated though they may be
It’s the nature of discussion
And for the record I actually have competed in sports events. Nothing that will give me a gold medal or acclaim but I’ve competed. Does that mean I have special insight? Because I sincerely doubt it. At least in my case lol
I was raised by a football coach, so I competed in every I sport could. My favorite was probably Track, and whenever I medalled it was usually in the 200, 800, Sprint Relay (4x100), and/ or Mile Relay (4x 400). Only issue was, most of those events took place at the very end of the track meet, and quite close together with little rest in between. So I might spend the whole day mostly just chilling until the end, when it becomes one event after another almost nonstop with me giving it 110% every time. I still loved it. I loved everything, every sport I did. Even now, I can’t stay out of the gym for too long. It’s who I am.What sports events have you competed in?
Win any medals? Oh any trophies? I hope they were shiny
I am referring to the practice. The training. The sacrifices. The hype, the pep rallies, with everyone there united celebrating the battle to come. The games, the tournaments, the track meets. The glory. The anthems. The sounds of the bands. The scents of athletic equipment, and concession stands. The years spent on the field honing your technique. The years spent in the gym and on the track, increasing your strength, speed, flexibility and endurance. The passion you develop for improving your fitness once you’ve proven what you can achieve, and understand what more you can build up to. The challenges you’ve overcome, mentally and physically. The people you love and hate who you respect regardless because you’ve spilled your blood together and you’ve had each others’ back, and you’ve operated as one to achieve victory. The camaraderie, and the rivalries. The gatherings of people from your city as they show up -whether at home or away- to express their support of everything you’ve trained to do and cheer you on. The sense of pride, when all that training pays off and you achieve victory, time and time again. The pain of loss, and defeat, sometimes soul crushing. The spirit of perseverance. The dreams, the broken dreams, and the dreams fulfilled.
These are things you only truly understand when you have experienced them, directly.