Male-to-Female Transgender Swimmers can Compete IF they Did Not Experience Male Puberty

[Aštra’el]

It's a good thing we have scientific knowledge and research on such topics to help clarify them instead of dramatic descriptions and personal anecdotes that have little or nothing to do with systematic study.

People base all kinds of beliefs on personal experience, but without a rigorous, systematic basis like that of science, highly complex and specialized subjects such as the medical ramifications of hormone therapy and its effects on sports performance often can't be reliably studied or learned about in a way that's rigorous enough to base major rules and decisions on.

Translation: “Why consider what athletes have to say about athletics, when you can just have gender studies professors telling you everything you need to know?”

 

[Twilight Hue]

You know what I find funny is we always talk about MTF in sports being unfair, and yet I've never heard anyone ***** about FTM...... Wonder why that is.

I figure if a female to male competitor can win the gold in various events, then that alone would arguably settle the issues outright.

I wish such MtoF people success in the endeavor.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Translation: “Why consider what athletes have to say about athletics, when you can just have gender studies professors telling you everything you need to know?”

Nobody in this thread brought up gender studies until you did, though. I'm talking about medical aspects of gender transitioning, which are within the purview of biology, psychology, and the medical discipline in general.

Being an athlete doesn't automatically render one professionally knowledgeable in all of these areas, and there are many athletes (including some trans ones) who would disagree with your views. I'd rather not base my entire view around anecdotes and personal preferences.

 

[Aštra’el]

I figure if a female to male competitor can win the gold in various events, then that alone would arguably settle the issues outright.

I wish such MtoF people success in the endeavor.

Awhile back there was one who did well in an event called Racewalking, and even competed against men in a few duathlons:
Chris Mosier - Wikipedia
…which is no problem, because Men’s divisions are often open to anyone who can prove they are worthy competition. If they can defy the odds, they have earned it, without a doubt.

However-

A trans man will never be the World’s Strongest Man. He will never be a starting fullback in the NFL. He will never be a men’s heavyweight champion in boxing or MMA. The difference between the human male and the human female makes this impossible… and the best of the best of football/ basketball/ track/ swimming/ soccer/ power lifting/ tennis/ mma/ boxing/ WSM etc will always be males.

Perhaps one day… if a complete transition ever becomes possible, that will change. Until then… athletes from every corner of the world will continue to push back to preserve the sanctity of female sports.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Great news.

The trans-female argument is that they have not yet won a gold medal against cis-females so it is already fair. But the problem with that argument is they're talking about competing against cis-females of the highest levels: locally and regionally may be another story.

No, the argument is that trans women are women, and therefore belong in any space set aside for women.

Try reframing this in terms of race instead of gender and the bigotry becomes clear: would we say that black athletes should need to show that they don't have a performance advantage over white athletes before they're allowed to compete?

 

[SomeRandom]

Translation: “Why consider what athletes have to say about athletics, when you can just have gender studies professors telling you everything you need to know?”

You do realise that there are scientists that do not compete in any sports events who actually help all competitors, right? Sports scientists, nutritionists and many other scientific factuality have been an integral part of sports competitions for the last 100 years or so.
Or do you honestly think that trainers are themselves athletes?
Athletes know how to do their sport, they don’t necessarily understand the science behind it.

 

[Aštra’el]

You do realise that there are scientists that do not compete in any sports events who actually help all competitors, right? Sports scientists, nutritionists and many other scientific factuality have been an integral part of sports competitions for the last 100 years or so.

Of course. I have never argued otherwise. A lot of what I understand about nutrition and fitness I owe to scientists and medical experts. A lot of what I know also comes from direct experience, trial and error, and the direct experience of other athletes and those who trained us.

So please, do not mischaracterize my position. I welcome the discussion. I simply give more weight to the perspectives of those involved in the subjects being discussed, which I think is a common and understandable position.

 

[ronki23]

No, the argument is that trans women are women, and therefore belong in any space set aside for women.

Try reframing this in terms of race instead of gender and the bigotry becomes clear: would we say that black athletes should need to show that they don't have a performance advantage over white athletes before they're allowed to compete?

Trans women and cis men both have a prostate, penis and testicles. Maybe the trans women removed theirs but they were born with them.

Trans men and cis women both have a uterus, ovaries and a vagina.

Trans women cannot bear children, trans men can

I don't see how you can apply this argument to different races: the fact that you can (and over the years do) get mixed race people shows they are both human / 99% identical.