Lucifer and the Devil

[Darkness]

I have been going through this a lot lately, in my head. Many Christians tell me the Devil[Satan] was once a glorious angel in Heaven named Lucifer. For the life of me, I cannot make this connection. Where in the Scriptures is Satan described as Lucifer, a Fallen Angel of Light?

 

[Ronald]

I have been going through this a lot lately, in my head. Many Christians tell me the Devil[Satan] was once a glorious angel in Heaven named Lucifer. For the life of me, I cannot make this connection. Where in the Scriptures is Satan described as Lucifer, a Fallen Angel of Light?

Where in the Scriptures is Satan described as Lucifer; Isaiah 14:12
Angel of Light; Lu.10:18, 2 Cir 11:14

In Ge.3 It is the Serpent who is the adversary, the sages of Israel say that it was a serpent, who walked upright until God Cursed him. In the commentaries the Sages differ as to what the force it was, "evil inclination", Satan, or "Angel of death."

Lucifer, (Latin for "light-bearer"), name for the planet Venus when it appears as the morning star; Vulgate translation of the Hebrew expression for "bright one." The Hebrew prophet Isaiah used the term in a satirical allusion to the king of Babylon, describing the frustrated ambition of the morning star to rise higher than all the other stars: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12). This passage evidently reflects an episode from a myth of Baal, known to scholars through Canaanite texts recovered at Ra's Shamrah in Syria. In the New Testament, star imagery is applied to the figure of Christ: In 2 Peter 1:19 he is called "day star" (Greek phosphoros), and in Revelation 22:16 he is called "morning star." The identification of Isaiah's Lucifer with the Devil began with Saint Jerome and other Fathers of the Church, who held that Jesus implied the identification when he said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18). Consequently, in Patristic literature, Lucifer is used as a synonym for Satan.

"Lucifer." Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2001. © 1993-2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[Darkness]

Ronald, while that is all very interesting, it makes no link between Lucifer and Satan. Luke 10:18 is shaky at best. Only three lines before this we have Luke saying, "And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell." No one would believe Capernaum was in Heaven, but rather it is used metaphorically.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light..." gives the opposite notion. Satan is not an Angel of Light, but decieves by transforming himself into an Angel of Light.

My guess as to Satan's origin is as follows:
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

 

[Halcyon]

Ronald, while that is all very interesting, it makes no link between Lucifer and Satan. Luke 10:18 is shaky at best. Only three lines before this we have Luke saying, "And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell." No one would believe Capernaum was in Heaven, but rather it is used metaphorically.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light..." gives the opposite notion. Satan is not an Angel of Light, but decieves by transforming himself into an Angel of Light.

My guess as to Satan's origin is as follows:
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

There is no link, it's just a popular misconception. Satan has never been a fallen angel, he has always obeyed the will of God.

He originated as an angel in the office of Adversary (of mankind, not of God). He tests men through acts we'd see as evil, to see how devoted they are to God. Read the Book of Job and you can see the role of Satan as clear as day.
Unlike other angels which reside with God in the heavens (read as sky) Satan wanders the Earth, carrying out his orders from God, to test mankind.

 

[astarath]

There is the exact story of Lucifer's fall in a gospel the council at Nicea refused to include in the canon. It explains how god called all the angels of heaven to bow to his creation(man) the greatest of all the angels seeing man in his weakness refused to do so claiming him inferior.God tested Lucifer and Adam with the naming of the creatures of the Earth. Satan failed he could not name the animals as God wanted them named yet Adam named every beast correctly. When Satan still refused to kneel , he fell at God's will the perfect angel became the perfect enemy

 

[doppelganger]

Jesus is also metaphorically represented as "Lucifer" in the latin Vulgate, where it is the marker for "morning star" or "day star," generally considered to be the planet Venus.

So possibly "Venus" is lucifer in Scripture (depending on whether the author of Isaiah considered Venus the "day star"). "Jesus" is also lucifer in Scripture. But "Satan" as lucifer is a later tradition that is not in Scripture.

(Here I mean "Scripture" as the Christian Canon)

 

[Ronald]

Ronald, while that is all very interesting, it makes no link between Lucifer and Satan. Luke 10:18 is shaky at best. Only three lines before this we have Luke saying, "And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell." No one would believe Capernaum was in Heaven, but rather it is used metaphorically.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light..." gives the opposite notion. Satan is not an Angel of Light, but decieves by transforming himself into an Angel of Light.

My guess as to Satan's origin is as follows:
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

I gave you what you asked for! What do you want? The Fairytale or some other myth?
There are hundreds of references to the "Adversary" as Satan, Lucifer, Devil the Accuser. All are referenced to being Satan. The Serpent in Gen.3 in Hebrew commentary was a creature that walked upright until cursed by God.
The "Yetzer Harah" and the "Yetzer Hatov" in Judaism is the two sides of mans character, the inclination to evil and "inclination to do good. Sometimes pictured as an Angel on the right shoulder and Satan on the left.
It seems to me that you want proof from scriprure and you won't get it. It's not there.
It all comes from commentary, in other words "your guess is as good as mine."
If you believe the Bible, then if you believe Yeshua/Jesus is the son of God, when He says He seen Satan fall from heaven, then you believe it is true! Then you connect the dots.
This is all I can do for you.
Keep on exploring. In the Bible it says "seek and you shall find."

Shalom

 

[may]

Lucifer is not a name Scripturally given to Satan

 

[Halcyon]

Lucifer is not a name Scripturally given to Satan

Quite true. Scripturally it has been given to only two individuals in the Bible. The King of Babylon, and Jesus Christ.

 

[may]

i would agree with the Babylonian dynasty. i thought this article was interesting it is taken from the september 15 th 2002 watchtower mag , it is a question from a reader of the mag .

Questions​

From Readers​

·​

Is Lucifer a name that the Bible uses for Satan?​

The name Lucifer occurs once in the Scriptures and only in some versions of the Bible. For example, the King James Version renders Isaiah 14:12: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!"
The Hebrew word translated "Lucifer" means "shining one." The Septuagint uses the Greek word that means "bringer of dawn." Hence, some translations render the original Hebrew "morning star" or "Daystar." But Jerome’s Latin Vulgate uses "Lucifer" (light bearer), and this accounts for the appearance of that term in various versions of the Bible.
Who is this Lucifer? The expression "shining one," or "Lucifer," is found in what Isaiah prophetically commanded the Israelites to pronounce as a "proverbial saying against the king of Babylon." Thus, it is part of a saying primarily directed at the Babylonian dynasty. That the description "shining one" is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: "Down to Sheol you will be brought." Sheol is the common grave of mankind—not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: "Is this the man that was agitating the earth?" Clearly, "Lucifer" refers to a human, not to a spirit creature.—Isaiah 14:4, 15, 16.
Why is such an eminent description given to the Babylonian dynasty? We must realize that the king of Babylon was to be called the shining one only after his fall and in a taunting way. (Isaiah 14:3) Selfish pride prompted Babylon’s kings to elevate themselves above those around them. So great was the arrogance of the dynasty that it is portrayed as bragging: "To the heavens I shall go up. Above the stars of God I shall lift up my throne, and I shall sit down upon the mountain of meeting, in the remotest parts of the north. . . . I shall make myself resemble the Most High."—Isaiah 14:13, 14.
"The stars of God" are the kings of the royal line of David. (Numbers 24:17) From David onward, these "stars" ruled from Mount Zion. After Solomon built the temple in Jerusalem, the name Zion came to apply to the whole city. Under the Law covenant, all male Israelites were obliged to travel to Zion three times a year. Thus, it became "the mountain of meeting." By determining to subjugate the Judean kings and then remove them from that mountain, Nebuchadnezzar is declaring his intention to put himself above those "stars." Instead of giving Jehovah credit for the victory over them, he arrogantly puts himself in Jehovah’s place. So it is after being cut down to the earth that the Babylonian dynasty is mockingly referred to as the "shining one."​

The pride of the Babylonian rulers indeed reflected the attitude of "the god of this system of things"—Satan the Devil. (2 Corinthians 4:4) He too lusts for power and longs to place himself above Jehovah God. But Lucifer is not a name Scripturally given to Satan.

 

[Darkness]

It seems to me that you want proof from scriprure and you won't get it. It's not there.
It all comes from commentary, in other words "your guess is as good as mine."

That is the answer I was looking for. Thank you.

If you believe the Bible, then if you believe Yeshua/Jesus is the son of God, when He says He seen Satan fall from heaven, then you believe it is true! Then you connect the dots.

I am Agnostic and gave up on Scriptures as the Word of the Divine, so it is more of an interest in mythology for me now.

May, the Watchtower publication was most helpful.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

There is no link, it's just a popular misconception. Satan has never been a fallen angel, he has always obeyed the will of God.

He originated as an angel in the office of Adversary (of mankind, not of God). He tests men through acts we'd see as evil, to see how devoted they are to God. Read the Book of Job and you can see the role of Satan as clear as day.
Unlike other angels which reside with God in the heavens (read as sky) Satan wanders the Earth, carrying out his orders from God, to test mankind.

I tend to agree with you on this. I've been trying to figure out why people believe that Lucifer was bad...evil...disagreeable....

Did he actually lie to Eve when telling her about the tree of knowledge..he said to her that surely God knows that if you eat from this tree your eyes will be open..knowing good... and evil and you will be as gods.

God created all those things.. the heavens, the earth and all the things of the earth and he saw that it was good. Should we not know that it was good?

God also created evil. Should we not know what evil is?

If the answer is know then why did God create it?

So for Lucifer telling the truth he was punished???? Didn't God know that all this was going to happen? if God did then what was the point of it all?

 

[Ronald]

I tend to agree with you on this. I've been trying to figure out why people believe that Lucifer was bad...evil...disagreeable....

Did he actually lie to Eve when telling her about the tree of knowledge..he said to her that surely God knows that if you eat from this tree your eyes will be open..knowing good... and evil and you will be as gods.

God created all those things.. the heavens, the earth and all the things of the earth and he saw that it was good. Should we not know that it was good?

God also created evil. Should we not know what evil is?

If the answer is know then why did God create it?

So for Lucifer telling the truth he was punished???? Didn't God know that all this was going to happen? if God did then what was the point of it all?

As always most miss the point! He wanted man to be in "His Image", Sterling Silver!
He made the WAY for Man to become "Sterling Silver." You just have to supply the "Want To" then He lifts you to a plane that allows you to become what He intended!
He's ready anytime you are.

Shalom

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As always most miss the point!

No.. Really I get it. I just don't agree.

[/quote]He wanted man to be in "His Image", Sterling Silver![/quote]

Uhh...where is that written? Even in that God needed middle men. where we read "Let US make man in OUR imange and OUR likeness"

It doesn't read I have made man in My Image and in My likeness"

I don't know where the Sterling Silver comes from...Truth be told Gold looks better on me.

[/quote]He made the WAY for Man to become "Sterling Silver." You just have to supply the "Want To" then He lifts you to a plane that allows you to become what He intended!
He's ready anytime you are.
Shalom[/quote]

I think it might be you who missed what i said or what I asked. I am above the.... come, listen, learn so that ye may be one with God....

I believe Iasked the deeper questions that so many like yourself have stepped away from answering.

As I have always stated. If God is truely omnipoten-omniscient then I already submitt to its will. I think this description of God given to him is contradictory what we read. Just my opinion folks.

 

[Comprehend]

I have been going through this a lot lately, in my head. Many Christians tell me the Devil[Satan] was once a glorious angel in Heaven named Lucifer. For the life of me, I cannot make this connection. Where in the Scriptures is Satan described as Lucifer, a Fallen Angel of Light?

I think the scripture that story comes from is in Revelations 12, Satan is the Dragon, he is in heaven and therefore has place there. It appears that he rebels and fights against God, satan loses and is thrown out of heaven where he continues to fight against God and His church.

Revelations 12:4-13
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶ Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].

 

[logician]

Jesus is also metaphorically represented as "Lucifer" in the latin Vulgate, where it is the marker for "morning star" or "day star," generally considered to be the planet Venus.

So possibly "Venus" is lucifer in Scripture (depending on whether the author of Isaiah considered Venus the "day star"). "Jesus" is also lucifer in Scripture. But "Satan" as lucifer is a later tradition that is not in Scripture.

(Here I mean "Scripture" as the Christian Canon)

Ah shucks, does this mean that the movie "The Exorcist" isn't true?

 

[Comprehend]

Jesus is also metaphorically represented as "Lucifer" in the latin Vulgate, where it is the marker for "morning star" or "day star," generally considered to be the planet Venus.

So possibly "Venus" is lucifer in Scripture (depending on whether the author of Isaiah considered Venus the "day star"). "Jesus" is also lucifer in Scripture. But "Satan" as lucifer is a later tradition that is not in Scripture.

(Here I mean "Scripture" as the Christian Canon)

I think Venus (or star of the morning) represents Christ, it is the first "star" to be seen at night and the last to go away in the morning which symbolyzes Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. Jesus Christ was THE Son of the morning meaning the first son, while statan was A son of the morning, meaning he came early but after Christ. In LDS understanding of scripture.

You don't think that Isaiah is calling Jesus lucifer do you? I do not see any other verse in the KJV that uses the name/title lucifer.

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 

[Darkness]

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

One would think if Satan was Lucifer it would have been added here.

 

[Ðanisty]

As a Luciferian, I'd comment but it looks like you guys already handled it fantastically. There is no direct connection between Satan and Lucifer.

 

[gnostic]

Quite true. Scripturally it has been given to only two individuals in the Bible. The King of Babylon, and Jesus Christ.

Yes, I agree with you on both accounts.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Since the morning star is Lucifer, then Lucifer is Jesus, as it can be seen clearly in the Revelation. There is no where where Lucifer equals Satan.

There is also direct link between the Serpent and Satan, or Serpent to Lucifer.