dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I respectfully disagree, But... you already know that.I see the anger in this case is still based in Love, as the Law can be seen as this closed fist.
Regards Tony
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
I respectfully disagree, But... you already know that.I see the anger in this case is still based in Love, as the Law can be seen as this closed fist.
Regards Tony
I respectfully disagree, But... you already know that.
It's a toughie. I don't want to go too deeply off topic. But, I think the key to this is:I would be interested to know how Love can not contain justice? Please explain further, or are you offering a different frame of reference, if so please explain?
My thought would be justice can only be maintained and served by Law and at times the law must constrain actions against anothers free will. Any change must come about by free will and Law should also contain education based corrective actions.
If we do not have law, then we have anarchy.
Regards Tony
Most certainly it's in action, not in words. If someone declares they treat everyone equally, then go out and treat people differently by gender, sexual orientation, race, etc, then actions don't match with words and we have hypocrisy.What is hatred?
From my point of view:
Hatred is taking action or the desire to take action to change some one or some thing against their will. Hatred is like a closed fist swung in anger.
What is love?
From my point of view:
Love is taking action or the desire to take action to nurture some one or some thing in harmony with their will. Love is like an open hand offering assistance.
( generally speaking )
It's a toughie. I don't want to go too deeply off topic. But, I think the key to this is:
If you notice, in this reply and the last:
Hatred is no longer being discussed. Now the words used are: "Law and Justice".
Yes I agree... 100%.Most certainly it's in action, not in words. If someone declares they treat everyone equally, then go out and treat people differently by gender, sexual orientation, race, etc, then actions don't match with words and we have hypocrisy.
A perfect example demonstrating why a discussion about love / hate is much much different than a discussion about law / justice .Law and justice can be filled with hate. Countries that have laws that allow capital punishment for gays are an extreme example.
Yes, desire to do doesn't always match one's actual capabilities. It's tough, being nice all the time.Yes I agree... 100%.
The distinction is: I was speaking about desire. You are speaking about words.
A perfect example demonstrating why a discussion about love / hate is much much different than a discussion about law / justice .
If you want peace, work for justice. ~Pope Paul VIYes we differ, I see that Love and Justice go hand in hand.
The most loving king (Queen, Ruler) is also the most just king (Queen,Ruler).
Negative hate has no place, hate of injustice, can be used in a positive way.
Regards Tony
So far, forgive me, I think that Buddhism does the best job at living up to: "love for all, hatred for none." But I think most religious systems have the components necessary to achieve this.
I also think that people of non-belief live up to this too. I have met a few Atheists here on RF and many many non-believers in real life who hate none. They are role models for me.
I don't fault you for your beliefs that Christ is the only way. I find great value in your conviction to maintain the accuracy of the texts. But I cannot ignore how I feel in my heart that everyone is working together, building a bridge into the future.
If you want peace, work for justice. ~Pope Paul VI
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.”If you want peace, work for justice. ~Pope Paul VI
Christ has many sheep. Christ Love covers all humanity.
False worship could be thinking one has a faith surperior to others. We are all in this life to help each other, as Christ has many names.
It is the Glory of God, the Father, that makes all those Names One and allows us to have 'Love for all and hatred for none'
There is nothing confusing if you read and adhere to the religious teachings of ever age during that age, as God intended us to do. The confusion happens when people cling to teachings of past dispensations that were not intended to apply to future dispensations.Trailblazer said: There is no such thing as "the God of the Bible." There is only One God, the God of all the religions, the God who sent all the Prophets. The spiritual teachings of all the Prophets are the same as the teachings of Jesus. They are renewed in every age.
Deeje said: Then this God of yours speaks with a forked tongue....deliberately confusing people with teachings that contradict those who you claim are his own messengers in another age. Is he just capricious?
Why should it matter what name God has? God is God by whatever name we refer to Him... Allah is just as much God as is Yahweh, just as I am still the same Trailblazer even if I change my name.Yahweh tells us who he is. He has one name, not many. He has one Christ, his "only begotten son"......Jesus Christ lived and died once...not twice.
When God revealed the Bible those beliefs did not exist yet, not in the human time zone, so why would they be in the Bible? God of course knew they would be revealed later because God is All-Knowing so God has foreknowledge.How on earth can you squeeze all those beliefs into one religion when the God of the Bible never did?
Again, why wouldn't the Bible teach about Jesus, it was scripture that applied to the Dispensation of Jesus, and the Old Testament was about Moses and other Prophets who came before Jesus. The Bible prophesies Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah but it is not about them.... They have their own scriptures.You have to ignore so much of what the Bible teaches to even remotely accept what Baha'i's believe.
The Bible teaches that there was one Messiah, who came through Jacob and Isaac...Jesus said that the Jews were God's people, not the Muslims who did not even exist until 600 years after Christ founded Christianity.
Who do you think He is then, a figment of the Muslim's imagination?Allah is not Yahweh.
I fully agree with that, Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins and then His work was done... Now go tell the Christians who believe that Jesus in the same body is going to drop down out of the sky, with trumpets and angels and do more work.Jesus Christ died once, and he was never to return in the flesh, having sacrificed his perfect body, once for all time for the sins of mankind.
The different religions do teach different doctrines because those doctrines are man-made, not from God. They also have different teachings, because different social teachings are needed in every new age. But the spiritual teachings of all the great religions are essentially the same and they are renewed in every new age when a new religion is revealed. The essence of religion is the spiritual teachings and the spiritual teachings of all religions are compatible since they are the same.There is no universal religion that is all things to everyone. The various religious systems are not even remotely compatible with each other. They teach completely different doctrines and worship different gods.
What is it that Jesus actually taught that you think we ignore? I do not know of anything.I simply cannot understand how your religion can claim to respect the teachings of Jesus Christ when you apparently just pick and choose what suits you and ignore the rest. Do you have to ignore a lot of what other religions teach too? What is the point?
Yes, Christ died for all of them, yet not all will benefit from his sacrifice. Life was always conditional, right from the beginning....it depended on obedience to God's commands.....it always has.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-9...
"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength".
Those who do not know God (because they don't want to) and do not obey the teachings of his son (because they don't like them) will not benefit from the ransom paid by Jesus Christ. "Everlasting destruction" awaits those who treat the Creator and his laws with contempt.
A ransom is the price paid to free a captive.....but only those who acknowledge the captivity actually want freedom. Those who don't see that they are captives have no desire to be free....they already think they are.
When Jesus said he will separate the "sheep from the goats", he made a clear distinction between only two categories of people.....we are all either in one camp or the other....there is no fence to sit on between those two.
Jesus consigns the sheep to life and the goats to death. It is important to understand which category we are in from God's perspective...not just our own. Apparently there will be "many" who think that they are "sheep", but Jesus considers them "goats". (Matthew 7:21-23) There is a reason for the judgment to come and the final result will be just as Jehovah purposed it. (Isaiah 55:11)
Its not a case of being "superior" or even "right"....its a case of searching for the truth and when we do, helping others find it by sharing the good news about God's Kingdom.
God is the one who sees to it that the sheep hear the voice of his appointed shepherd. (John 6:65)
The names that Jesus is given all reflect the roles he is assigned in the outworking of Jehovah's purpose.
The angel’s instructions to Mary (“you are to call his name Jesus”) and Isaiah’s prophecy (“she will certainly call his name Immanuel”), are examples of the meaning of names being more important that the name itself.
It must be remembered that Messiah was also to be called by other names as well. (Luke 1:31; Isaiah 7:14)
For example, Isaiah 9:6 said concerning this one: “His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” Yet none of these names were given to Mary’s firstborn as personal names, neither when he was a baby nor after he took up his ministry. Rather, they were all prophetic title-names by which Messiah would be identified. Jesus lived up to the meaning of these names in every respect, and that is the sense in which they were prophetically given, to show his qualities and the roles he would play toward all those accepting him as Messiah. So also with his title Immanuel. He measured up to and fulfilled its meaning.
Philippians 2:5-11
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
There is so much in those few verses. Because of carrying out his mission flawlessly, Jesus was given a new name...one that was above all others. But it is noted that Jesus fulfilled his mission to glorify his Father...not himself.
Yes, we are not to hate anyone but to treat all as potential brethren. It doesn't mean that we are free to believe whatever we wish, if it falls outside of what Christ taught.....false ideas were to be rejected along with the person promoting them.
2 John 9-11...
"Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."
So unless our beliefs are firmly founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ, we have no share in the kingdom to come because we accepted lies as truth.
The Apostle Paul's warning is there for all of us....
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
Its not about humans bringing humanity together....because of what drove us apart. Unless we all believe the same things, worship the same God and adhere to the teachings of his son, there can be no harmony or agreement or peace between the different religions of mankind. (1 Corinthians 1:10) Unity is the mark of God's true worshippers.....not division. There is nothing in the Bible to even hint that adopting the beliefs and practices of false worship is remotely acceptable. We cant mix it all up as if the truth doesn't matter, because we personally have to choose what is acceptable to God, not just to ourselves.
That is the way I see it.
There is nothing confusing if you read and adhere to the religious teachings of ever age during that age, as God intended us to do.
The confusion happens when people cling to teachings of past dispensations that were not intended to apply to future dispensations.
What, do you think God's hands are tied from revealing any more truth after the Bible? that would have to be a really wimpy God. Besides that it would be a really uncaring and unloving God who would leave humanity alone with no guidance for over 2000 years.
I know all about the verses in the OT and the NT that say you cannot add to the scriptures... The misconception that Jews and Christians have is that the Qur'an and the Writings of Baha'u'llah are additions, when in fact they are "new" Revelations from God.... No scriptures should ever be added to after they have been completed. The Baha'i Faith is not "another Gospel." There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Why should it matter what name God has? God is God by whatever name we refer to Him... Allah is just as much God as is Yahweh, just as I am still the same Trailblazer even if I change my name.