Lot, One of the Bible's bad Guys

[columbus]

Peter calls Lot a "righteous man" so God must have thought enough of him to sent his angels to rescue him and his family from that awful environment.....

An enormous part of the reason that I don't believe Christians know anything important about God is that they often expect me to believe things that are demonstrably untrue. Such as Lot was a righteous man, when all the evidence other than claims like this show he was not.
Lot couldn't get along with his family. He went to greener pastures, but chose Sodom to settle in. He invited some good looking strangers home. He tried to whore out his daughters. He ignored the advice of "angels" and went to a cave instead of Zoar. Then he got some alcohol somehow and drank enough of it to get his daughters pregnant.
But the Bible still describes him as righteous.

I cannot help but think that the Bible authors did not know what righteous means. So I put little stock in their morality.

I don't want to be a Biblically righteous man like Lot.
Tom

 

[Skwim]

You've apparently never been so drunk that you don't remember what happened last night. I done it once, and haven't drank even close to that much since (I literally woke up wondering how I made it to my bed, because I did not remember making it to my bed, and a few days later I was reminded I ordered a couple things off Ebay, something else that I had entirely forgotten about because I drank way too much).

Think such a drunken state would excuse you if you had picked up a gun and killed everyone else in the room? It wouldn't.

From Criminaldefenselawyer.com

"Intoxication is not an excuse for criminal conduct,"
source​

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Think such a drunken state would excuse you if you had picked up a gun and killed everyone else in the room? It wouldn't.

It's not an excuse, but nevertheless it is very possible to get so drunk that you don't remember what happened and you wake up wondering how you got to where you are.

 

[Skwim]

It's not an excuse, but nevertheless it is very possible to get so drunk that you don't remember what happened and you wake up wondering how you got to where you are.

Perhaps not remembering after waking up, but a person certainly knows what's going on at the time.

 

[InChrist]

Do angels need protecion from rapists? What about flapping their wings and escape the threat, instead of letting Lot to offer their daughters instead? I am sure they appreciated Lot's hospitality and the nice conversation, tea and cookies while those poor girls were gang raped.

Like someone else said, what value is there in swearing a oath to a book that contains stories like that and sells them as "righteous"?

Ciao

- viole

According to the scriptures everyone sins and the stories of the Bible are not trying to hide this glaring reality about anyone. All the main characters of the biblical accounts are not put on a pedestal as if they are exceptions. So there is some other factor by which Lot, David, or others who clearly behaved really badly at times are called God called righteous. Maybe some smart person can figure it out.

 

[Thana]

First Lot offers up his virgin daughters as whores, then he knowingly has incestuous sex with them. Yes indeed, a righteous man if ever there was one.

David knowingly sent a man to his death, all to steal that mans wife and slake his lust for her. And God called Him a man after His own heart.
None of us are perfect, but do our sins negate whats in our hearts?

He was a righteous man, in as much as man can be righteous.
But he was not perfect, as none of us are.

 

[Skwim]

David knowingly sent a man to his death, all to steal that mans wife and slake his lust for her. And God called Him a man after His own heart.
None of us are perfect, but do our sins negate whats in our hearts?

He was a righteous man, in as much as man can be righteous.
But he was not perfect, as none of us are.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

righteous

: morally good : following religious or moral laws

Full Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision>
......b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality
​

Do you honestly think this describes Lot?

If your neighbor offered up his two virgin daughters as whores and then had sex with them would you call him righteous?


.

 

[Thana]

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

righteous

: morally good : following religious or moral laws

Full Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision>
......b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality
​

Do you honestly think this describes Lot?

If your neighbor offered up his two virgin daughters as whores and then had sex with them would you call him righteous?
.

Divine law. Only in general circumstances do we appropriate righteousness with morality, but that is not righteousness in regards to the biblical term.

Lot seemed to have done his best. I don't judge, I'm not supposed to judge. I can look at any person you would consider 'good' and find fault and immorality in them.
He was considered righteous because he feared God.

 

[LuisDantas]

That has the disturbing implication that God is not very good in the moral discernment department.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Perhaps not remembering after waking up, but a person certainly knows what's going on at the time.

If a woman is given a "date rape drug" and cannot remember what happened, is she a victim or is she asking for it?
edit:

Lot seemed to have done his best. I don't judge, I'm not supposed to judge. I can look at any person you would consider 'good' and find fault and immorality in them.
He was considered righteous because he feared God.

That's a low standard, though. I believe there are "bless your little heart" folks (I'm from the South), but c'mon ... Lot isn't really trying or anything.

 

[prometheus11]

Sounds like a good plot for a porno.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sounds like good plot for a racist play, once one considers the motivation of Lot's daughters.

 

[McBell]

That has the disturbing implication that God is not very good in the moral discernment department.

Implication?
You, sir, are far to kind.

 

[Thana]

That has the disturbing implication that God is not very good in the moral discernment department.

Less than 100 years ago it was morally acceptable to discriminate against women and people of colour.

God is consistent, morality... not so much.

 

[LuisDantas]

Less than 100 years ago it was morally acceptable to discriminate against women and people of colour.

God is consistent, morality... not so much.

What?!?

 

[Thana]

What?!?

Whilst I appreciate the theatrics they're not very constructive when debating.

 

[Skwim]

Divine law. Only in general circumstances do we appropriate righteousness with morality, but that is not righteousness in regards to the biblical term.

So, if righteousness has nothing to do with being "morally good" and "acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin," just what does righteousness mean in the Bible?

Lot seemed to have done his best. I don't judge, I'm not supposed to judge.

But other Christians do and have judged him to be righteous.

He was considered righteous because he feared God.

I've never been absolutely sure what "fearing god" means, but if all it takes to be righteous is to fear god, then I assume one could be a serial child sex abuser who poisons little old ladies and still be considered righteous. That about it?

 

[Skwim]

If a woman is given a "date rape drug" and cannot remember what happened, is she a victim or is she asking for it?

Assuming the date rape drug was necessary and it worked, then I'll say Victim. However, I have absolutely no idea of how date rape drugs work. Liquor, I do.

 

[LuisDantas]

Whilst I appreciate the theatrics they're not very constructive when debating.

That remains to be seen.

For one thing, there is the need for transparency. I don't want to make it look like I find your claim worth of serious consideration. That would be misleading.

You truly mean that you believe God as revealed in the Bible to be a constant reference for morality? Even when compared to human discernment?

 

[McBell]

You truly mean that you believe God as revealed in the Bible to be a constant reference for morality? Even when compared to human discernment?

I read her post as saying that while god is consistent, morality is not.