I thought you were highly intelligent!
I don't think I ever said that...
I can understand how you would think that after reading my posts though ;-)
If energy (mass/matter) CANNOT be created, it CANNOT be eternal (without a finite past)
Err... logically, the opposite seems true. If something can't / wasn't created, then it wouldn't have a finite past.
But once again, you make a crucial mistake, like so many creationists do who think they can be clever with the laws of physics.
Your forget that what we refer to as physics, are the way things work IN THIS UNIVERSE.
Laws of conservation, thermodynamics, etc....
all these things are physics as they apply IN the universe.
When you wish to talk about whatever environment we'ld find ourselves in when we REMOVE the universe to discuss how universes originate,
physics as we know it goes out the window as well. If you remove the universe,
you also remove the physics of the universe.
So, when one says that energy cannot be created or destroyed, more specifically that means that it cannot be created or destroyed
within the context of the universe.
We don't know if this applies "outside" of the universe. In fact we don't even know if the concept even makes sense outside of the universe.
And now for a nice kicker..............
The total sum of energy of the universe,
could be zero. This is called the zero-energy universe hypothesis. In that model, the total positive energy of matter is canceled out by the negative energy of gravity.
In such a model, no energy would ever have to be created, because it technically wouldn't even exist in a way. It's like having the number zero and then splitting that into +1 and -1. Technically, you still have zero.
The universe wasn't always here, nor were its elements (matter, energy).
Again: always is a period of time. All of time, to be exact.
Time, is an integral property / dimension of the universe, aka the space-time continuum.
The universe began at T = 0
Time began when the universe began.
Therefor, for all of time (aka 'always'), the universe existed.
It really is that simple.