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Listen to your gut...it never lies

Spiderman

Veteran Member
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So there are so many quotes that glorify the idea of listening and trusting in what your gut tells you and that it doesn't lie. This may even be popular opinion. Yet this has repeatedly been proven false and dangerous...so why are there so many famous quotes in praise of trusting your intuition? Well...like many things...you can find just as many quotes saying something is good as you can find touting it as evil.

But one reason why we want to have faith in our inner feelings is because it is wishful thinking. How beautiful a world we would live in if nobody's gut ever lied to them? It would solve almost all of our problems. Also, everyone wants to be self-sufficient and secure. Nothing makes a person feel more self-sufficient and secure than to believe that their gut and feelings never lie to them.

"Trust your instinct, we’re urged; it’s never wrong. Nice platitude. It makes us feel safe. But gut instinct is based in our knowledge and experience. Thus, it’s inevitably limited to our specific perceptual frame.

Cognitive research has found that the formation of a perceptual frame involves two primary avenues for processing information. Some moves through rational channels and some through intuitive channels. Intuition is aligned with automatic,subconscious judgment, which can be highly influenced by emotion. It’s fast, and its conclusions arrive without analysis. Thus, it’s vulnerable to personal biasand error.

In other words, just because an idea feels does not make it right.Gut instinct, while useful, can also form a threshold diagnosis that becomes an immovable anchor, thwarting full analysis.

I came across the website of J. Scott Hornoff, who’d once been convicted of murder. He spent more than six years in prison before being exonerated, and he’s writing a book about his ordeal. What’s unique about his tale is that he was a detective himself. Like his fellow officers, he’d once trusted his gut. But then he discovered that his accusers’ gut instinct about him had been dead wrong.

I asked him to say a few things about his ordeal and what he’d learned. Here’s what he wrote:

“Imagine being innocent and being accused of a crime you did not commit. Imagine that you can choose the detectives who are looking at you as a potential suspect. Would you rather someone be guided by logic and facts or by feelings when deciding your fate? There are no witnesses placing you anywhere near the scene of the crime. There is no physical evidence linking you to the crime.

“Spiritualists and others who make a living advocating for following your inner voice will often tell you that by doing so you will lead a more peaceful life that is less at odds with universal energy.

"Cops are most often associated as ones who follow their gut or the tingle down their spine when investigating a criminal complaint; however, this course of analysis can often cause the investigator to ignore facts, and result in her beliefs forcing every shred of speculation and conjecture to fit the crime.

“Mary Ellen O’Toole, a former FBI profiler who worked on the Unabomber, Green River killer and other cases, discovered that some of the most vicious serial killers acted as the most harmless, and that many investigators had dismissed suspects using their gut feelings, believing the man they were evaluating was a good guy.

“I, too, have felt the negative effects of investigators’ gut instincts. Whether their intuition was initially based on a dislike or other prejudicial feelings, I was indicted, tried, convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison for a crime I did not commit. I spent 6 1/2 years wrongfully imprisoned before the one responsible came forward and confessed.

“At the beginning of my ordeal in 1989, I was a city police detective working in Warwick, Rhode Island. I had been unfaithful with a woman who was murdered in my city. I understood why I was questioned; however, I requested and passed a polygraph examination. My clothes were not seized and examined. My vehicle was not processed.

"I agree that I was eliminated without a thorough investigation, but I wasn’t directing the investigation, and I was grateful when I was told I was no longer a suspect.

“Three members of my department who still suspected that I was guiltysought out the RI Attorney General’s Office, which appointed the RI State police to investigate me rather than the murder. There was no friendshipor respect between the three Warwick investigators and me and my brother, also a Warwick cop. Perhaps this influenced their gut feelings that I was guilty. The state police investigators were placed in a difficult position, but immediately assumed I was guilty.

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 1,000 exonerations in the United States. The Innocence Project proves the innocence of roughly 24% of those they represent when DNA exists, is properly preserved, and testing is granted. With 2.3-2.6 million people incarcerated in America’s prisons and jails, it’s fairly safe to believe that thousands of innocents languish in jail for crimes they did not commit.

"Perhaps and investigator’s perceptions and judgments of others is the actual main cause of wrongful imprisonment.”

Trust Your Gut? Not So Fast | Psychology Today

It isn't studies like that so much as what I have witnessed repeatedly in my own life that convinces me that all these quotes about trusting in one's gut are very false and even dangerous.

bigotry, especially fear of certain races or genders, is fueled by intuition and gut feelings.

this is also what fuels various psychological disorders including paranoia and irrational crippling phobias and cynicism.

countless people have lived their lives in fear and in prison to their gut feelings and some of these people have ruined other lives based upon their gut feelings and intuition.

"a life lived according to the feelings of your guts is a life half lived." fear ruins countless lives and ruins countless relationships, starts many conflicts, and is the number one thing that holds people back from achieving their dreams.

feelings in the gut can be very deceptive and destructive, not to mention extremely unstable and inconsistent. I have been in many situations where the feelings in my gut are my biggest enemy. They tell you a threat and danger is present that doesn't exist which can lead to extreme consequences!
 
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Ultimatum

Classical Liberal
Unless I am in a spontaneous situation, I prefer not to rely on my gut "feeling".
Informed decisions and factual choices place me in good stead for whatever it is I must do.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
yes that is true they are there for a reason.

for instance, if an African American is repeatedly discriminated against by white people, antagonized, and beaten by white folks, his gut is trying to protect him from danger by sending him the message that he is in danger whenever he is around white people.

this is also why a stray abused animal will be extremely suspicious of and sense danger to be present among people that have the animals best interests in mind.

I have known enough people who have been abused , myself included, that the gut will often tell us that a danger is in present when there is no danger present.

when I hear somebody talk about how much trust they place in their gut it gives me a sick feeling in my gut.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The gut feeling can, and does, lie. However, it can be trained, I think, to be more accurate in situations where it's the only thing that can be relied upon, when the process of actually taking the time to think on a given problem would actually be more detrimental.

Such situations aren't terribly common.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
As a former Christian, this "gut feeling" was known as the "Holy Spirit." Sometimes, our "sixth sense" can be off and sometimes it can be right. Perhaps, it just depends on the situation. I'd say it is an evolutionary tool designed to help us in the fight or flight response.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
it depends on the situation and it depends on the person as to how accurate these feelings can be.

for people who have been abused, deceived, and have trust issues or anxiety disorders, the feelings become that much more inaccurate.

also the people that you hang out with and the belief that they have about the world around them that they are influenced by, greatly affects a person's intuition.

if a person is surrounded by people that tell them that Mother Teresa is evil, that person will be predisposed to believe that about Mother Teresa...if they are surrounded by people that have nothing but good things to say about her , vice versa.

I know that one of the reasons that I used to drink and use benzodiazepines so often was so that I could do the things I enjoy doing and hang out with the people I enjoy being around without my gut chronically telling me that danger is present.

one of the reasons I dropped out of college more than once is because in that environment , my gut is chronically telling me that danger is present and the chronic anxiety would really take its toll up on me!

many public speakers or stand up comedians would never have any success whatsoever if they listened to their gut.

it is sad how many people reduced themselves to an isolated and unhealthy cynical life based on these feelings.

yes and as a Catholic I had all sorts of false suspicions about people that were based on what I thought was inspirations of the Holy Spirit and the gift of discernment.

so glad I woke up and saw the light rather than live my life like that. it also wasn't fair to all of those people I came in contact with that I misjudged.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
How can one be sure when his/her gut is right/wrong, though? That's the question I wonder about.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
sometimes the only for sure thing you can say is you don't know for sure.

one example of how you can get a good idea that your Gut is wrong, would be in a situation where there is somebody or some group or gender you had a certain suspicion about and on more than one occasion the suspicion was proven to be false.

for instance, there have been many people that I came to realize that I misjudged, so when such feelings arrived later , I took them less matter of factly.

also in multiple times in my life I found myself in environments or situations where I was the only white person present, and I learned that in such situations the gut is a liar and a deceiver and a nuisance.

also when I was homeless somebody took me in that I severely misjudged. I thought the person was very creepy and thought they had very bad motives, and didn't trust them at all, to the point that if that person was upstairs I would be downstairs.

I even worried that maybe the person would try to drug my food or drinks and take advantage of me.

my dad as a concerned father would also tell me " get out of there dude" and didn't trust the guy at all.

time told that the person had a very good heart and just wanted to help me, and didn't want to ever see me on the streets.

there were also times where people I had totally trusted and had a good feeling about were lying to me the whole time.

when things like that happen , it gives me a better idea of how accurate my suspicion radar is.

if judging a certain person, and on multiple occasions your suspicions and judgments were proven false, that right there should tell you something.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I have a situation, actually. I have trust issues stemming from my childhood, but developed a friendship with someone this year, whom often was always involved in some type of controversy. (people didn't/don't like him, judge him, ostracize him, etc...) Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not. I observed this, and yet...I reached out in friendship to him. Over time, I learned to trust him, and took him on his word. When I am someone's friend, I'm there for them. There have been times he has not been there for me, as I have been there for him. During the past few months, there have been what seem to be endless rumors floating around that he is dishonest, and like your dad telling you to flee your situation...many people have told me to abandon this friendship. ''He will hurt you, Dee...'' etc...

My gut instincts are to listen to these people, but then he tells me he is telling the truth. I'm torn between my gut, and believing in the person I came to know, and care about. He has told me that my suspicions are wrong.

I don't know what to believe, anymore. :( TY for listening.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Gut feelings can be right. They can also be wrong. I see them as the subconsciousness view of things. They are only as good as the quality of the information that the subconscious has. Garbage in, garbage out. I think you need to subject gut feelings to the tests of logic and evidence before accepting them.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
One thing you might want to ask yourself is...how well do these people know this person?

Do they know him better than you do?

Does your opinion of the other person from what you have observed add up with other people's judgements? What are their judgements based on? I'd say if you have a bad feeling about the person based on what you have seen, it is good to have your reservations about them. However, there is a fine line between telling someone, I don't like that i see x, y, and z and therefore i don't trust you, compared to flat out accusing someone of a bunch of things that have little or no evidence and are simply false which is something that recently happened to me. I had someone who I cared very much about and my primary desire was to make them happy and be a positive influence in their life. Yet it was heartbreaking that they kept believing and accusing me of things I would never do. Sometimes there was basis for the accusation, or what would appear to be evidence, other times nothing at all.

If someone has suspicions I appreciate that they bring them to me and talk about them. There is a difference between presenting a concern and outright insulting and accusing someone in a matter of fact way! You know, like stating it as a fact as oppose to what it is, a suspicion or feeling.

You will find a billion people that will tell you that if you convert to Catholicism it will be the best thing that ever happened to you. You will find another billion people who will tell you it's the worst thing that could happen to you or that it will send you directly to hell and is the Religion of Satan.

I find that both sides have had influence on my gut feelings and intuition depending on who I surrounded myself with.

I even became influenced by people into believing that Mother Teresa of Calcutta was a sadist. THey had a "convincing" arguement with "evidence" to back it up. People are people and their judgement is flawed and biased and sometimes has little or no basis. I wish there was simply a way to seperate fact from fiction in a fool proof way.

Often there is no such option but relying on your gut or intuition can be one of the worst ways to solve such a dilemma.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Sorry you went through that, yourself. Yea, I think for me...my gut is telling me to back away. Barring a true apology from what I once called a friend, I'm going to listen this time. If someone doesn't value my friendship, in every way, then maybe that is what I need to pay attention to.

Happy new year...auld lang syne and all that ...lol
;)
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Sometimes, gut instincts are wrong. Sometimes, if the friendship is worth saving, you need to believe in the person, over your gut.
 
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LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Cognitive research has found that the formation of a perceptual frame involves two primary avenues for processing information. Some moves through rational channels and some through intuitive channels. Intuition is aligned with automatic,subconscious judgment, which can be highly influenced by emotion. It’s fast, and its conclusions arrive without analysis. Thus, it’s vulnerable to personal biasand error.

In other words, just because an idea feels does not make it right.Gut instinct, while useful, can also form a threshold diagnosis that becomes an immovable anchor, thwarting full analysis.

To copy from other posts:

"Logic, analysis, and most cognitive processes associated with rationality and reason are not only far from innate, but are typically counterintuitive and difficult to teach. I'm not a fan of evolutionary psychology, at least as far as the causal explanations for research findings, but experiments within that field as well as cognitive psychology and cognitive neuroscience have much improved our understanding of the ways in which humans are more irrational than rational and are prone to believing that they are rational based upon conclusions that are irrational/illogical. The research on this is vast, but there are some decent books for the non-specialist as well as some not too technical studies/monographs [most of those in the original post are listed again below, so I have retained the only live link]
...Confirmation bias: A ubiquitous phenomenon in many guises


We tend to find explanations that don't exist by seeing patterns that aren't their and attributing causation due to an interplay of cognitive, perceptual, and experiential biases."


"Although I have never used them as textbooks, I have frequently recommended them and have used parts of them for course material/teaching:

McRaney, D. (2011). You are Not So Smart: Why You Have Too Many Friends on Facebook, why Your Memory is Mostly Fiction, and 46 Other Ways You're Deluding Yourself. Penguin.

Dan, A. (2008). Predictably irrational: the hidden forces that shape our decisions. HarperCollins.

Gilovich, T. (2008). How We Know What Isn't So: The Fallibility of Human Reason in Everyday Life. Simon & Schuster.

Piattelli-Palmarini, M. (1994). Inevitable Illusions: How Mistakes of Reason Rule Our Minds. Wiley.

These are all very much designed for the casual reader with no background in the cognitive sciences.

For those interested in the kind of material out there on this subject that is more technical, see e.g., the following:
Van Eemeren, F. H., Garssen, B., & Meuffels, B. (2009). Fallacies and judgments of reasonableness: Empirical research concerning the pragma-dialectical discussion rules (Argumentation Library Vol. 16). Springer.
Magnani, L. (2009). Abductive Cognition: The Epistemological and Eco-Cognitive Dimensions of Hypothetical Reasoning (Cognitive Systems Monographs Vol. 3).
Gilovich, T., Griffin, D., & Kahneman, D. (Eds.). (2002). Heuristics and Biases: The Psychology of Intuitive Judgment. Cambridge University Press.
Edwards, W., Miles, R., & Von Winterfeldt, D. (2007). Advances in Decision Analysis: From Foundations to Applications. Cambridge University Press.
Nickerson, R. S. (2012). Aspects of rationality: Reflections on what it means to be rational and whether we are. Psychology Press.
Aliseda, A. (2006). Abductive Reasoning: Logical Investigations into Discovery and Explanation (Synthese Library Vol. 330)

Tindale, C. W. (2007). Fallacies and argument appraisal. Cambridge University Press.


There are also a number of excellent introductory textbooks on critical thinking, argumentation, and/or logical reasoning such as: Tindale, C. W. (2007). Fallacies and Argument Appraisal (Critical Reasoning and Argumentation). Cambridge University Press. However, these lack the kind of research presented even in the very readable works intended for the layperson cited first, which- while of less worth, perhaps- is of much greater interest. These books demonstrate the extent to which we do not think logically or rationally in general but have to be taught and train in order to do so."
 
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