Liberals...why?

[Dirty Penguin]

I mean come on. Universal healthcare? Ok, taxes will be raised 60% for us to cover this and the level of care we get will diminish greatly.

Nothing wrong with universal healthcare. Taxes will be raised? So....?!! Considering how much was, is and will be spent on the "war" it really doesn't matter. I'd gladly forego having money taken out of my pocket for the war to be spent on UH, schools, enviornment, homelessnes etc.

The war in Iraq? Ok, the troops are coming home in 1 year anyway.

Do you truly believe that? Now be honest with yourself. Even the military leaders don't know when they are coming home So I'm interested as to where you got your information from.

YouTube - Levin: So... When Are The Troops Coming Home? (They don't know when they are coming home)

Illegal immigration? Ok, are you willing to support welfare for these people with your own social security?

Can you show the statistical data that says hispanics out number whites or black when it comes to welfare?

Seriously, why?

Because we have allowed the current administration to bleed us long enough.

Here's a chart to show what we could be doing with some of the money that was spent on the war....(PLEASE CLICK THE LINK) - (Iraq war spending vs. spending on renewable energy). We could be "seriously" investing in companies to develope renewable energy. Solar, wind, water, hydrogen....This is where the money should be going. Not on the war and not keeping BIG whatever in business (big oil, big bank).

You ask the question and I can answer it by saying that we have spent....just on this war alone upwards of 2 TRILLION dollars (TheStar.com | World | How the Iraq war's $2 trillion cost to U.S. could have been spent).

Do you know how many solar plants we could have built, how many hydrogen plants or wind farms built? Can you imagine how may jobs that would have created? We could become the world leader in getting gas fueled cars off the road and start to build better and more eco friendly homes. Not to mention diversify funding back into the community for rebulding New Orleans as well as other communities (again creating more jobs).

 

[Autodidact]

I think Shrub has surpassed Nixon in his utter contempt for the law and ETHICS. Haliburton's War is the perfect example of this kind of pandering to special interests that seems to mark the entire party.

Yes, it was tough, but he did it. Unfortunately Congress did not rise to recognize their Constitutional duty in this circumstance. To cite just a single instance, the pardon of Scooter Libby in itself was an impeachable criminal act.

 

[yossarian22]

I would add 11., Pete: Republican policies are bad for the economy.

(Iraq war spending vs. spending on renewable energy). We could be "seriously" investing in companies to develope renewable energy. Solar, wind, water, hydrogen....

Sorry, but this annoys me.
Hydrogen is not a source of energy; it is a carrier of energy.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry, but this annoys me.
Hydrogen is not a source of energy; it is a carrier of energy.

What are you blathering about? It's just as much a source of energy as the sun or petrol.

The point is that Shrub et company have squandered precious resources and have set back the clock on R&D for these alternate fuels by eight years. But then, what would we expect from an oil baron in charge of energy??? His corruption and abuse of the Good 'Ol Boys Club is legendary.

 

[yossarian22]

What are you blathering about? It's just as much a source of energy as the sun or petrol.

Great. You go try to mine Hydrogen gas.

The point is that Shrub et company have squandered precious resources and have set back the clock on R&D for these alternate fuels by eight years. But then, what would we expect from an oil baron in charge of energy??? His corruption and abuse of the Good 'Ol Boys Club is legendary.

Alternative fuels is just a money hole. Wind, Hydro, can only be made more efficient with either more effective prop design or better generators (and, as a consequence, better engines). Solar efficiencies are capped because indium sucks royally, but it's the only thing we got till we can start marking graphine and carbon nano-wires

And throwing money at stuff rarely accomplishes much in terms of research.

 

[Apex]

What are you blathering about? It's just as much a source of energy as the sun or petrol.

The sun is s source of energy. Hydrogen must be created using energy. And I would not expect it as an alternative source to gasoline any time soon.

Although natural gas will likely provide the earliest affordable feedstock for hydrogen, today's costs are prohibitively expensive. The cost of producing and delivering hydrogen from a small scale reformer of natural gas for a fuel cell vehicle could be as high as $40 per million BTUs with today's technology. This would make hydrogen about four times as expensive as gasoline at the pump untaxed.

 

[rheff78]

Amen brother.

The whole OP really begs the question>>>

Who in their right mind would VOTE for these liars who are intent on pushing us to oblivion in the name of war and progress?

The best I can see right now, is that a vote for McCain is a vote for continued war and a deepening depression. We have a far better chance with either Hillary or Barack! Let's hope they make 01.20.2009 America's liberation day!

Great, so you want a liar or a racist in the white house? Those are two very good choices. Way to go Dems.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sorry, but this annoys me.
Hydrogen is not a source of energy; it is a carrier of energy.

See now you're splitting hairs here. I could care less that it's a carrier. The point I was making was that it is a a renewable source. The fact that we can use water to power cars etc. is a great idea.

Check this out. It's cool
bookofjoe: Hydrogen Fireplace — Water is the fuel

This one here I'm quite sure you've seen. They had a few commercials here in the US.
Honda Worldwide | April 16, 2008 "FCX Clarity Fuel Cell Vehicle Official Car for 2008 Indy Japan"

Imagine that! A car that runs on hydrogen gas..."The FCX Clarity runs on hydrogen and emits no CO2 or other environmentally harmful emissions in operation"

That was the point I was trying to make.

Companies are now making super thin solar panels and sheets. Developers have designed solar panels that look like roof tiles. So during the day you can run off solar and at night run of the grid. This will reduce your electric bill and help the environment. Or collect that energy, power your home, store it up for the night and feed some back to the grid.

2 trillion on the war...but we could have been doing so much more with that money.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Great, so you want a liar........ Way to go Dems.

Well we already know that the current administration are a bunch of liars (weapons of mass destruction)...hello!

Maybe they were there....but very doubtful. The "intelligence" said that it was....but we "later".....I mean much later and millions of dollars invested...found out that there was nothing....

way to go...republicans....

Lying to me and all the while got their hand in my pocket....

Both Dems and Republicans can be quite horrible but you come off as if one is better than the other. The past eight years have been a nightmare. If you can look back over the past eight years and say that it was great having Bush in the white house then you are delusional.

Here's just a snip of his approval ratings...
YouTube - Ratings for Bush and Congress Remain Low

People are genuinely upset at this president and his administration. Don't get me wrong. I by no means am trying to paint some perfect picture of Dems. Please!....They have some serious issues too. I have no problem admitting they aren't perfect. You give off the impression one is better than the other and I'm saying neither is but what I am saying is that it is time for an administration change because regardless of what McCain thinks....I don't think we can take a 100 years in Iraq fighting Alcaida spending trillions more....

 

[Autodidact]

Great, so you want a liar or a racist in the white house? Those are two very good choices. Way to go Dems.

Well, now we have both...bada boom.

 

[Apex]

Well we already know that the current administration are a bunch of liars (weapons of mass destruction)...hello!

Okay, this thing really gets annoying. Has everyone forgotten that before this war BOTH PARTIES said Sadam had weapons of mass destruction? This entire "Democrats never lied about weapons of mass destruction" thing is entirely bogus. They just jumped on the band wagon when no weapons were found because no matter what, the blame was going to fall on the white house, not the democrats. If the tables would have been reversed and the democrats had the white house, we would have republicans claiming they never lied to get this country into a war.

 

[Autodidact]

Okay, this thing really gets annoying. Has everyone forgotten that before this war BOTH PARTIES said Sadam had weapons of mass destruction?

Which parties? If you're saying that Congress or the Democrats did, the only thing that happened is that some of them unforunately believed and occasionally repeated the Bush administration lies. It's been pretty clearly traced now exactly who lied, how often, about what, and it was the Bush administration all the way.

This entire "Democrats never lied about weapons of mass destruction" thing is entirely bogus.

No it's not. It was a Bush administration deal all the way. Sorry, you can't pin this war or these lies on the Democrats; they weren't in office. Both the administration and Congress were Republican.

They just jumped on the band wagon when no weapons were found because no matter what, the blame was going to fall on the white house, not the democrats.

Well yeah, that's where it belongs.

If the tables would have been reversed and the democrats had the white house, we would have republicans claiming they never lied to get this country into a war.

Had the tables been reversed we never would have invaded the wrong country. That's the point.

 

[blackout]

Why do y'all support ANY of them?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hillary Clinton made some good points this week. She is saying we have accomplished our mission in Iraq now. Saddam was hanged, Iraq had free elections, and we have given the Iraqis enough time to solve their own problems. She wants to deploy the troops to Afghanistan and finish the work needed there.

I had to say, she has a point when she mentioned that the remaining tasks to be performed in Iraq can not be done militarilly.

All this nonsense about saving money and having lower gasoline prices and a better economy is smoke and mirrors however.

It is not George W. Bush that raised the gasoline prices. You cannot blame him no more than you would thank him if the prices fell.

The military will cost us money in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The price of gasoline has been affected by speculators and the weak dollar.

The economy will not be better while the dollar is falling and prices are soaring.

If we took every dollar every American had, it would not pay off the debt and we still would have a falling dollar and higher gasoline prices no matter who is president and the rate of income tax.

You want to pay off the debt? Our dollar would be worth about half of what it is and that means 8 dollar gasoline and our food and utilities doubling. You would have to double your income to have what you have right now. The problem is, you would still have less because of higher taxes on the larger income.

Or, we could just bring the boys back home and disband the military and let Iran control the region and we would pay 8 dollars a gallon anyway. What would that do for the economy?

In simple terms, we have spilled our last gallon of milk we have. If we get another one, we will have paid double for the milk. No matter who is President, the milk is already spilled and it is too late. If we want to drink milk, it will cost more and we all are going to be worse off in the next four years no matter who wins the election. You all will be looking back at these times right now as the good old days.

 

[Autodidact]

In simple terms, we have spilled our last gallon of milk we have. If we get another one, we will have paid double for the milk. No matter who is President, the milk is already spilled and it is too late. If we want to drink milk, it will cost more and we all are going to be worse off in the next four years no matter who wins the election. You all will be looking back at these times right now as the good old days.

I agree Rick and the guy who spilled it is named Bush. All of those who chose him share responsibility for this humungous mess, and I don't know how the heck we're going to get out of it. What I do know is that I'm not stupid enough to elect the same Bozos another time.

You ask, do I want us to pay our debt? What I want is for us not to incur this level of debt. At this point it may take decades to pay it off without bankrupting us. It's disgusting. I do want us to start paying it off, stop making it bigger, and in general to deal with reality.

The first step is to get the economy going again. Again, I trust the party who wasn't in power when it was screwed up better than the schmucks who did to have a greater chance to do this. But you may be right, we may be utterly and totally screwed.

The only hope is to vote Democrat.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Okay, this thing really gets annoying. Has everyone forgotten that before this war BOTH PARTIES said Sadam had weapons of mass destruction? This entire "Democrats never lied about weapons of mass destruction" thing is entirely bogus. They just jumped on the band wagon when no weapons were found because no matter what, the blame was going to fall on the white house, not the democrats. If the tables would have been reversed and the democrats had the white house, we would have republicans claiming they never lied to get this country into a war.

Look....I also said that Dems had issue too and they both have horrible people in them. I also said I was not trying to paint a picture as though Dems were perfect. The OP, to me, comes off siding with one party as though it is the be all to end all...truthfully that might be a good assessment of their current work. I think we are ready for a change. I listed that we should have been using that 2 trillion in another areas. We are fighting a war that will never be solved. If we pull out then Alcaida can do what they did to seize power or they can put people in power through the election process. Alcaida will find some way to get back their power. Wheter through for or politics. The point is......we have no business there considering the goal was to be looking for and bringing Osama to justice.........2 trillion dollars later we haven't a clue as to where that man is. We don't need or want 4 to 8 more years of government and big oil with their hands in our pockets. Enough is enough. Gas in my neck of the woods is almost $4.00 per gallon....whereas water, and solar are free.....I'd rather be looking, aggressively, into ways to get away from fossil fuel and dependency on other countries for our energy than to keep like it is......Leave it up to McCain and he'll have us in Iraq for the next 100 years.......

 

[Father Heathen]

Great, so you want a liar or a racist in the white house?

Bush already served two terms. He cannot run again.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The OP, to me, comes off siding with one party as though it is the be all to end all...

And, they are promising to make everything better.

Gas in my neck of the woods is almost $4.00 per gallon....[snip]Leave it up to McCain and he'll have us in Iraq for the next 100 years.......

If we stay in Iraq we cannot afford it, and it will cost more for everything because the more we borrow the less the dollar is worth.

If we leave Iraq, Iran will control the region and the price of oil. You will be wishing for 4 dollar gasoline my friend. You need to start thinking about 8 dollar gas. :cover:

 

[Autodidact]

A
If we leave Iraq, Iran will control the region and the price of oil. You will be wishing for 4 dollar gasoline my friend. You need to start thinking about 8 dollar gas. :cover:

Yeah, that decision to invade Iraq was a hell of boneheaded cockup. So why would anyone ever vote for the party that did it?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yeah, that decision to invade Iraq was a hell of boneheaded cockup.

Yeah, we should be paying for 8 dollar gas right now right?