Liberals: Do you donate to the government?

[Mister Emu]

Liberals, or progressives, in the U.S. often say that society, via the government, is entitled to a higher percent of wages than is currently taken.

My question is, given this belief, do you donate to the government?

 

[Engyo]

Liberals, or progressives, in the U.S. often say that society, via the government, is entitled to a higher percent of wages than is currently taken.

My question is, given this belief, do you donate to the government?

Are you refering to taxation when you say 'taken'? Seems implied, but I want to be sure.

If I felt that it would actually help, I might. Unfortunately, the conservatives would either use it to strip more people of their rights, or to fund more miltary spending. Neither of those options will do the country any good at all.

Edited to add: My wife is the supporting minister for a prison Sangha in a Texas State prison. She visits once a week for 2+ hours, and has been doing so for 7 years now. I assist this endeavor when I can physically as well as always financially.

 

[Mister Emu]

Are you refering to taxation when you say 'taken'? Seems implied, but I want to be sure.

Indeed.

If I felt that it would actually help, I might. Unfortunately, the conservatives would either use it to strip more people of their rights, or to fund more miltary spending. Neither of those options will do the country any good at all.

Would you oppose, be neutral, or for the current government raising taxes?

edit: Also, you can donate to specific offices(such as the Bureau of Public Debt)

 

[Revoltingest]

To address the flip side of that question, as a libertarian, I "avoid" taxes as much as I can get away with.
I see it as my patriotic duty.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not American, but I was a teacher. It was quite difficult to get students to understand exactly what taxes did. It was quite the disconnect. Most of them had only heard that 'taxes are bad' from their parents. I think the smarter ones finally did understand that there was actually stuff that you got back from paying taxes. But only the smarter ones.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not American, but I was a teacher. It was quite difficult to get students to understand exactly what taxes did. It was quite the disconnect. Most of them had only heard that 'taxes are bad' from their parents. I think the smarter ones finally did understand that there was actually stuff that you got back from paying taxes. But only the smarter ones.

We must have better teachers here.
The dumb ones have learned that they can live off the taxes paid by others.

 

[Penumbra]

Liberals, or progressives, in the U.S. often say that society, via the government, is entitled to a higher percent of wages than is currently taken.

My question is, given this belief, do you donate to the government?

I advocate a system of progressive taxation rather than the current situation of regressive taxation.

That is, removing caps on social security contribution, and ending the tax breaks on dividends and stock capital gains, partnerships, and a few other things. This way, a person who makes $1 million per year won't be paying a lower percentage of her income towards social security than someone making $100,000 like they are now, and a person who has $10 million in stock won't be paying a tax percentage lower than someone who makes $80,000 pays in income taxes like they are now.

So rather than simply advocating paying a higher percentage, I advocate paying a reasonable progressive percentage that actually roughly matches the current income tax brackets, albeit possibly with an extra bracket.

Indeed.

Would you oppose, be neutral, or for the current government raising taxes?

I strongly support ending the Bush-era tax cuts, and returning to a previous era of taxation rather than this super-low tax environment for the wealthy.

edit: Also, you can donate to specific offices(such as the Bureau of Public Debt)

I would conceivably send some money to NASA.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

We must have better teachers here.
The dumb ones have learned that they can live off the taxes paid by others.

It must not be that difficult.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I would conceivably send some money to NASA.

May as well just burn it.

 

[waitasec]

Liberals, or progressives, in the U.S. often say that society, via the government, is entitled to a higher percent of wages than is currently taken.

My question is, given this belief, do you donate to the government?

yes i do pay taxes...if i didn't i wouldn't be able to get my mail, take my son to the park or to his public school, my house would burn to the ground and the police wouldn't safe guard the area...i wouln't be able to check out a book at the library, or there wouldn't be a place where convicted felons can be locked up...i wouldn't be able to get to visit my sons grandmother in sweden because flying would be even more expensive than it is now...
i wouldn't be able to depend on public transportation to take me to work after my car breaks down....and my summer vacations would suck because all national parks would belong to big oil companies...
:sarcastic

 

[Penumbra]

May as well just burn it.

The current situation seems to be the administration's fault rather than NASA's fault. I'd wait until clearer long-term plans were in place.

 

[Revoltingest]

I advocate a system of progressive taxation rather than the current situation of regressive taxation.

It's a mixture of progressive & regressive. Payroll taxes muck things up because what was originally supposed to a limited retirement
supplement from a "trust fund" payed by limited contributions. Of course, it isn't a trust fund at all.

That is, removing caps on social security contribution, and ending the tax breaks on dividends and stock capital gains, partnerships, and a few other things.

If you remove the caps, would those who pay more in get proportionately more in benefits, or is it just an add-on income tax?
With capital gains tax, we can pay tax when there is no real economic gain, but rather a dollar gain due to reduction in the value of a dollar.
Would you index the tax for inflation, so it's only on real gain instead of taxing currency dilution?

This way, a person who makes $1 million per year won't be paying a lower percentage of her income towards social security than someone making $100,000 like they are now, and a person who has $10 million in stock won't be paying a tax percentage lower than someone who makes $80,000 pays in income taxes like they are now.

Then why not scrap the SS tax & just add its percentage onto the income tax rates?

So rather than simply advocating paying a higher percentage, I advocate paying a reasonable progressive percentage that actually roughly matches the current income tax brackets, albeit possibly with an extra bracket.

I strongly support ending the Bush-era tax cuts, and returning to a previous era of taxation rather than this super-low tax environment for the wealthy.

"Super-low"? How much was the rate reduction of the Bush tax cuts?

 

[Engyo]

"Super-low"? How much was the rate reduction of the Bush tax cuts?

If I may:

 

[Penumbra]

It's a mixture of progressive & regressive. Payroll taxes muck things up because what was originally supposed to a limited retirement
supplement from a "trust fund" payed by limited contributions. Of course, it isn't a trust fund at all.

It's progressive up to a certain point, until one is rich enough and then it becomes extremely regressive. If one owns tons of stocks, bonds, partnerships, and certain other investments, one will pay little in federal taxes.

If you remove the caps, would those who pay more in get proportionately more in benefits, or is it just an add-on income tax?

No, they wouldn't get more. They'd be paying the same percentage as someone in a lower bracket rather than a smaller percentage. Having them pay a slightly higher percentage would be reasonable too, but social security isn't as unbalanced as the other things.

That's how progressive taxation works. Wealthier people end up putting more into the system than they get in return, and the least fortunate end up putting less into the system than they get return. It stabilizes the system, helps ensure everyone a reasonable degree of health and dignity, and still lets wealthy people maintain and build wealth.

With capital gains tax, we can pay tax when there is no real economic gain, but rather a dollar gain due to reduction in the value of a dollar.
Would you index the tax for inflation, so it's only on real gain instead of taxing currency dilution?

I answered this question before in our previous debate. No, I would not index it for inflation.

Then why not scrap the SS tax & just add its percentage onto the income tax rates?

The precise implementation of taxation is of little concern to me as long as it is a truly progressive of taxation- the details can be worked out by people trying to balance the budget.

Offhand, I'd suggest that keeping taxes separate may be helpful. A social security tax, a medicare tax, a defense tax (so people can see how much money they are paying to maintain 50% of the world's defense spending with 5% of the population), and a consumer tax (basically the remainder for all the consumer protection, and various miscellaneous government services). This way, individual aspects can be appropriately balanced for revenue/spending, to streamline debates. But like I said, the precise implementation is of little concern to me as long as there is a reasonable degree of progressive taxation and the budget is balanced with the appropriate government services.

"Super-low"? How much was the rate reduction of the Bush tax cuts?

Engyo posted an appropriate chart. The income tax reduction began occurring in the decades previous to Bush, and he merely continued the trend.

Bu the key thing is that Bush's tax cuts were minor for income, and major for dividends and to some extent, capital gains. Dividend tax for the highest tax bracket is only 15% now, which is how someone like Warren Buffett pays a lower tax percentage than his secretary. When middle class people hold stock, they typically do so through a tax-advantaged account anyway (like 401k, Roth IRA, etc), and income from dividends comes to a fairly small total of their overall earnings. So any reductions in dividend tax mean little to them. But for the top 10% and especially the top 1%, where people hold millions in stock and other investments, cutting these specific investments drastically reduces their tax rate. That's why we have the illusion of progressive taxation rather than actual progressive taxation- the income tax is progressive but the tax on real holdings is regressive. The current tax brackets (with perhaps one more for super-high income earners) wouldn't be so bad if the income tax was actually what people were paying on their real income.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Liberals, or progressives, in the U.S. often say that society, via the government, is entitled to a higher percent of wages than is currently taken.

My question is, given this belief, do you donate to the government?

I donate both my time and money to public schools; does that count?

 

[Vinayaka]

We must have better teachers here.
The dumb ones have learned that they can live off the taxes paid by others.

Dumb ones?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't donate anything cause I'm too poor to do so. But if I had the money, there are some political causes that I would give to, such as wildlife/environmental, gay rights, and education.

 

[Mister Emu]

yes i do pay taxes...

Not what I asked. Do you donate to the government?

I donate both my time and money to public schools; does that count?

I'd say so, public schools are government are they not?

 

[Mathematician]

Isn't the point of public assistance that public action brings more money to a cause than charity alone?

The hidden message behind this thread seems flawed.

 

[waitasec]

Not what I asked. Do you donate to the government?

i donate to vets...
does that count?