Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[Hockeycowboy]

If "my" enemy was trying to kill me or my family, I will try to kill first. If "my" enemy was stealing from me, s/he can have what they want.

If you were part of an organized effort to take over my city, killing people, yes you bet your britches I would be a part of the organized effort to stop you!

But I never would be, that's the point. Keep on justifying, Jesus is taking note. We must be "faithful even to death." (Revelation 2:10) Because this life is not all there is; apparently for you....you'd kill to keep it. Don't argue the point, there's no justification for disobedience to Christ.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Oh really? Let's take a look and see what the slave teaches, shall we,

*** w11 7/15 p. 16 par. 6 Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings? ***
6 How can we protect ourselves against false teachers? The Bible’s counsel regarding how to deal with them is clear. (Read Romans 16:17; 2 John 1:9-11.) “Avoid them,” says God’s Word. Other translations render that phrase “turn away from them,” “keep away from them,” and “stay away from them!” There is nothing ambiguous about that inspired counsel. Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Timothy 6:3-4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects?

That's one example of how the slave attacks the character of people that don't agree with them, and so do the rank and file witnesses.

(^^ the above was edited to allow the Scriptural links.)

As I see this counsel comes from the Scriptures (and there are others), your dispute is with those passages. The Apostles were wrong to do this, huh?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

I cant get my head around how Paul was one way then another. He is like lukewarm. At the same time he "needed" healing himself and ordain himself over "everybody"... Circumcision which he told the galations not do he then says its of the heart,he screams how he is the Pharisee, and physically does that to timothy... I literally jump to timothy excuse me, Hebrews. How could they be so off and back and forth on marriage and "circumcision" and "coming"...which brings me to history right away and how the practices which are in some of those examples are in the most harsh texts. and it wont take to long to see that in Islam or some Talmudic writings.

 

[savagewind]

But I never would be, that's the point. Keep on justifying, Jesus is taking note. We must be "faithful even to death." (Revelation 2:10) Because this life is not all there is; apparently for you....you'd kill to keep it. Don't argue the point, there's no justification for disobedience to Christ.

This is very, very sad. It proves to me you do not know how to read, which I already knew. He said he would kill to protect his family and their way of life, he didn't say he would kill to protect his own life. Twisting words, are you?

 

[savagewind]

(^^ the above was edited to allow the Scriptural links.)

As I see this counsel comes from the Scriptures (and there are others), your dispute is with those passages. The Apostles were wrong to do this, huh?

Romans 16:17
17 Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.+

"The teaching" is Christ's concept, not the "faithful and discreet slave"'s new plan.

2 John 1:9-1
8 Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward.+ 9 Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.+ The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.+ 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes+ or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

I am warning you Please listen.

You are equating the teachings of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses with the teaching of the Christ (and Moses).

I left the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses because I was being taught that the teachings of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses should be viewed on par with Jesus Christ. The people I have seen who speak against the organization also left for the same reason.

Do you want to confess to this group here that what you are doing, which is making the JWs equal to Jesus, the way, the truth and the life, is something you are aware of and agree with?

 

[savagewind]

It is a FACT that the JWs equate their teachings with Moses' words because they use the Bible illustration of Numbers 16 to warn people who speak words which contradict any words of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

1 Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and certain Reubenites--Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth--became insolent 2 and rose up against Moses. With them were 250 Israelite men, well-known community leaders who had been appointed members of the council. 3 They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, "You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the LORD's assembly? 4 When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. ...11 It is against the LORD that you and all your followers have banded together. Who is Aaron that you should grumble against him?" ......... 15 Then Moses became very angry and said to the LORD, "Do not accept their offering. I have not taken so much as a donkey from them, nor have I wronged any of them."........... 21"Separate yourselves from this assembly so I can put an end to them at once." 22 But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and cried out, "O God, the God who gives breath to all living things, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?" 23 Then the LORD said to Moses, 24"Say to the assembly, 'Move away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.'"

......which is one MAJOR twisty.

1. we are not "against" the JWs and the governing body, for we are against their false teachings.
2. we are not together
3 we are not looking to lead anybody
4. most of us are not insolent. OK snarky, maybe.
5. I am sure we do not say, "the whole assembly is holy". I think most people are out because of the JW doctrine regarding child abuse cases.
6. The JWs do not only take people's donkeys (in a symbolic way), they take everything as they call everything "belonging to Jehovah" and they call themselves Jehovah. I am sure if they were discreet for real, they would not do that.
7. the governing body is not fallen facedown. Have they?

Here is the WARNING. By the JWs bold persistence it seems to me that Jesus Christ is fallen face down. I suggest people repent of that.

 

[Deeje]

17 Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.

What good advice!

Enough now.....the trolling is going to stop or it will be reported.

This is your obsession and we are tired of it. Your defection is duly noted, we heard you the first time. Please get over it and let it go. If you feed obsessions they just grow.....not healthy....ya know.

 

[savagewind]

What good advice!

Enough now.....the trolling is going to stop or it will be reported.

This is your obsession and we are tired of it. Your defection is duly noted, we heard you the first time. Please get over it and let it go. If you feed obsessions they just grow.....not healthy....ya know.

Or it will be reported? I am posting THE BIBLE for goodness sake! LOL.

Please, report me. I need three of them, please.

 

[Yoshua]

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that wrongdoers (anyone who does not agree with all of JWs dogma) can contaminate the Christian Congregation. See; Keep Yourself in God's Love (2008) pages 207, 208.

It seems to me that is antithesis to this fine word called, "by The Holy Spirit". Romans 8:31-39

So then why the scriptures for separating from people walking not in accord with the BIBLE's true, really true word?

They know why, but they can't see past their noses or knowses.

"Losing precious fellowship with loved ones may help him to come to his senses". Keep Yourself in God's Love (2008) pages 207, 208

So, the disfellowshipping scriptures aren't written for the sake of a clean congregation. See Romans 8:31-39 They are for the ones whose hearts are not complete for Jehovah.

I think it is related to Jesus'wisdom which says we must become as little children to enter God's Kingdom. Children need the love of people and they want boundaries.

Deeje,

How do you treat those who are disfellowshiped members? Did you pray for them or what?

Thanks

 

[savagewind]

Deeje,

How do you treat those who are disfellowshiped members? Did you pray for them or what?

Thanks

Your question has a threefold answer.
How do YOU (personally) treat disfellowshipped members, for each member it is different.
How does the congregation treat them?
What is being taught about how to treat them?

Their prayer is not that we be saved, but that we will come back to them to be (possibly) saved.

I suspect @Deeje might pray for me. We ARE friends, never-the-less. I don't recall praying for her. I would pray for her leaving the JWs and that would not be nice imho.

 

[Yoshua]

Names in the Bible denote a role in God's purpose. "Jesus" (the human son of Mary) did not exist before his human birth. His name was given to him as a human...the meaning of his name is in accord with God's purpose in connection with his role as redeemer of the human race.

Ye·shuʹaʽ or Yehoh·shuʹaʽ means “Jehovah Is Salvation”. Salvation came to mankind the day "Jesus Christ" died. His blood redeemed every human being that was covered by his sacrifice. (But not all are covered if they refuse to become a Christian disciple of God's son)
Jesus said that Many would identify as Christians in the day for his judgment but he would reject "many" who were not living up to ALL the things he taught. (Matthew 7:21-23) Just calling Jesus your "Lord" is not enough.

"Michael" means "Who Is Like God?" and reflects the character of the Commander in Chief of all the angelic forces. As God's "only begotten son" his role reveals that he is exactly like his Creator. He carries out the will of his Father, not his own, which flies in the face of him being an equal deity with his God.

It was also prophesied that Jesus would have the name "Immanuel" which means, "With Us Is God". Yet I don't recall Jesus ever being called "Immanuel" except in prophesy.
God was certainly "with" the ones whom Jesus gathered to himself as his disciples.

But Jesus also talks about another name that he is given upon his return to heaven.....
Revelation 3:12
“‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name."

He makes mention of his "God" four times in that verse and says he has a "new name"....but he does not reveal it.

In the scriptures God reveals his name and says that this one name is the one by which all generations would identify him..."forever". (Exodus 3:15) God does not have many names, (Psalm 83:18 ASV) but Jesus does.

Hi Deeje,

If Jesus did not exists before His human birth, then that would mean Archangel Michael is not Jesus. Because God created the angels first and foremost.

Before the foretold apostasy, there was no trinity in the teachings of Christ. There was no trinity in the Jewish religion at all....so as a Jew, Jesus never taught such a concept. It was introduced into the church hundreds of years after Jesus died. You can fight this...or you can acknowledge this simple truth. Only when you do can you comprehend the scope of God's purpose in connection with his "Holy Servant Jesus".

Trinitarian doctrine is about the existence of one God, as simple as that. One perfect example is the baptism of Jesus Christ wherein the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were there (in existence).

Thanks

 

[savagewind]

I have things to say that could get me removed, but I do not want to be removed that way.

 

[james2ko]

As I said, you are welcome to use such terms as you find appropriate.

And as I said, I will.

 

[Yoshua]

Those who "call on the name of Jehovah (YHWH) will be saved" (Romans 10:13 where Paul was quoting Joel 2:32)...this is what the scriptures teach. But in order to call on the name of YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah) one must first know who he is. To illustrate....

In a room full of families with children, if a child called out "daddy!" how many of the "daddys" would turn around? But how many of the "daddys" would be the the right "daddy"?
We can call out to our "Father" but unless he recognizes us as one of his children, he will not answer our call. You must be a member of his family or desire to be.

We sang songs with the name Jehovah, therefore there is no problem when I prayed to Jehovah (God). Now, if I call on the name of Jehovah, do you think that I will be saved? yes or no

So your Jesus has fulfilled all that he is going to and he is not coming back to restore all that Adam and his wife lost for their children? Are you all just going to heaven to float around on clouds all day being blissful? Please tell me this is not so. Jesus made a promise to his disciples that he would return to take them "home" to a place he had prepared for them. They were not selected randomly as individuals with individual beliefs that each had gleaned for themselves from the Bible. They had to be a baptized member of God's spiritual family by accepting the teachings of his son.

I believed in the second coming of Christ which I don't know when but there are signs as foretold in the Bible. I accepted the teachings of Christ that is in the Bible in general.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

God has used men to accomplish his will since he created them. He first had the Patriarchs who were the heads of clans or tribes. These were the spiritual overseers of all in the clan.
Job was such a Patriarch. Abraham was too and it was promised that through Abraham's family line, that God would provide the Messiah.

When the nation of Israel was formed, God preserved the lives of Jacob's family in Egypt, sending Joseph there well ahead of time. As time went on and new Pharaohs came to power, God's people were subjected to hard slavery, so again God sent a man, Moses whose life he had saved as an infant, to deliver his people. Other men were appointed to lead and to direct God's worshippers.....so it is apparent that God works through a collective...not through individuals who "think" they can do things on their own.

In Hebrews 13:17 Christians are told that they have to "Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you." (RSVCE)

Whom do you obey? Who is keeping watch over your soul?

Is Christ looking at you "sadly"?

When Jesus say "Obey and follow His teachings," we submit to His teachings. Accepting and receiving Him as your personal Saviour and Lord. Having a personal intimate relationship with the guidance of Holy Spirit. God is the one who keep watch over my soul through His Son Jesus Christ.

When we the Bible say "Obey your leaders and submit to them," on what extent that a member will submit? Is telling your past personal lives must be broadcast to your leader? your choice of finding a girlfriend? your personal secrets must be revealed? your decision making? your desired ambition? on what extent???

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

This is very, very sad. It proves to me you do not know how to read, which I already knew. He said he would kill to protect his family and their way of life, he didn't say he would kill to protect his own life. Twisting words, are you?

But in the first place we must always pray to God for protection in our daily lives, and not going to the point of killing.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

You are equating the teachings of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses with the teaching of the Christ (and Moses).

I left the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses because I was being taught that the teachings of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses should be viewed on par with Jesus Christ. The people I have seen who speak against the organization also left for the same reason.

Do you want to confess to this group here that what you are doing, which is making the JWs equal to Jesus, the way, the truth and the life, is something you are aware of and agree with?

Not limited to JW's, there are a lot of so called Christian congregation that based their doctrine through their founder, and they believed that they are their prophet, teacher, and a messenger of God.

Thanks

 

[savagewind]

Not limited to JW's, there are a lot of so called Christian congregation that based their doctrine through their founder, and they believed that they are their prophet, teacher, and a messenger of God.

Thanks

Yes, I know. And if I had given twenty years of my life promoting Catholicism, The Later Day Saints, or Islam, I might be trolling them now, but I didn't.

 

[Thief]

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach pacifism as the ONLY way. They say if you are not a pacifist, you can not be a child of God.
1 Samuel 18:7 1 Kings 15:5

seems the Carpenter missed that piece of scripture.....
and walked into the Temple with a scourge and an open can of whoop ***

 

[Thief]

Sorry, but I have no idea what your efforts are.

just my postings here at the forum