Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[Deeje]

OK. Is that the best you have?

Try 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.

Then, it isn't assuming Jehovah will be their executioner, but that they will reap what they have sown.

According to Paul Jesus is the judge and he and his angels will be the executioners.

Thirdly, who was he speaking to? He was speaking to the leaders of Israel who were GUILTY of leading astray God's sheep.

That is why Jesus went searching for the "lost sheep". He sent his disciples out on a search and rescue mission. (Matthew 11:11-14)

Who do you think @viole is leading astray?

IMO?.....Herself.

 

[viole]

When you were growing up, did you listen to your parents? Was it that difficult? Did you prefer death? I doubt it, not if they were loving.

They never threatened me with dead, or let me choose between them and death, as far as I recall.

Would you hold in high consideration a parent that does that? Today he would go to jail and his children removed from him. For obvious reasons.

The dictator you refer to, is a loving Parent. He has way more wisdom than any of us will ever have. Following His laws are always beneficial.

With the possible exception of stoning rebellious children to death. He seems to be obsessed with death. And gruesome death. It is, de facto, a cult of death. And that includes tons of blood all over the place, including what you have to pay to redeem from what He considers wrong, for some reason.

When you read the Genesis account.....how many laws were Adam and Eve given? Three. And only one was prohibitive! Doesn't seem very dictatorial, to me.

Even if there were all non prohibitive, He would still be a dictator. I did not ask, and probably Adam and Eve did not either, to live under what he thinks is good and what not. So, he should have asked before, I think.

Ciao

- viole

 

[savagewind]

Try 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.



According to Paul Jesus is the judge and he and his angels will be the executioners.


That is why Jesus went searching for the "lost sheep". He sent his disciples out on a search and rescue mission. (Matthew 11:11-14)


IMO?.....Herself.

Or maybe "suffer destruction eternal" means to be ruined with never a way back. Do you think they care?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

They never threatened me with dead, or let me choose between them and death, as far as I recall.

But, even as a child, they did threaten you with punishment, right?

But we're talking adults.....do not governments threaten their citizens with punishment, even capital punishment? Are you railing against the governments?

Would you hold in high consideration a parent that does that? Today he would go to jail and his children removed from him. For obvious reasons.

But again, we are talking about adults, like the Israelites who lived under a monarchy, ultimately governed by Jehovah God's (Yahweh's) Laws, called the Mosaic Law. Did they suffer? No, actually they prospered. In fact, many of those other surrounding nations are gone, but the Israelites kept their identity.

Did God kill many inhabitants of those other lands? Certainly, in the interest of preserving His own people. You'd probably do the same, to save your loved ones. The biggest difference, though, lies in the capability God has, that we don't: we can't read hearts.... He can.

And let me ask you something.....are you aware, according to the Scriptures (John 5:28-29, 'resurrection of the wicked), that most of those who were killed, will be given the chance to live again?

With the possible exception of stoning rebellious children to death. He seems to be obsessed with death. And gruesome death. It is, de facto, a cult of death. And that includes tons of blood all over the place, including what you have to pay to redeem from what He considers wrong, for some reason.

What do you mean, "gruesome death"? Read Deuteronomy 12:31, and then Jeremiah 7:31. That is gruesome death! No wonder He got rid of them!

Even if there were all non prohibitive, He would still be a dictator. I did not ask, and probably Adam and Eve did not either, to live under what he thinks is good and what not. So, he should have asked before, I think.

Do governments ask their subjects? Do parents ask their children? Sometimes, maybe....but that could be unwise to follow suggestions of inexperienced people.

All this should really be put aside, for what laws are there for Christians to follow, today? To "love your enemy", to 'love their brothers', "flee from sexual immorality," to care for others, and a few more. (Matthew 5:44; John 13:34-35; 1 Corinthians 6:18; Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29; James 1:27; Matthew 28:19-20). And at times, we may fail in these. Is the penalty death? No! Not when we are truly sorry! If we are not repentant, which we show by practicing these things, then we will die, and sleep forever!

Because that's what death is likened to, a sleep (John 11:11-14). No eternal pain for anyone!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What happens if someone decides to abuse her free will again, once we all, well you all, have returned to Him?
Ciao
- viole

There is a little hint or clue found in Jesus' words at Matthew 24:13.
Those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 never repent or return.
As far as the rest of us, if someone on Earth decides to abuse their free will again during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then Jesus has the right Not to grant them everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical Earth, but like the haughty ' goats ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 they will meet with destruction - Psalms 92:7

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do yu believe something just because most churches teach it? I am still waiting to see one scripture that speciffically says this. A few hint at it but as this is a major belief you would think there would be more than just hints. Especially when the Bible actually says " no man has ascended into Heaven."

Yes, before Jesus was resurrected No one was called to heavenly life including King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34, and John the baptizer - Matthew 11:11
So, ALL who died before Jesus died can be in line for a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on Earth during Jesus' 1,000-year rulership over Earth.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
They will be blessed with the benefits of healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2
Please notice that mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life' again on Earth for the healing of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Zum Befehl, Herr Gott!
I hope you understand, but I prefer death. I could never be able to look myself in the mirror (for all eternity) for abiding to the dictates of a celestial dictator. I mean, who ordered Him?
Ciao
- viole

No problem. God forces No one to serve Him.- Deuteronomy 30:19
Is God a celestial dictator, or rather a celestial benefactor ?
God's orders are for the benefit of all humans such as the dictated: Golden Rule.
Who orders violent human society to be violent ?
Is there any violence in Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 ? ______

 

[JesusBeliever]

You see, its how you read my responses that makes you upset. Super-sensitive people look for things to offend them. You know I am direct. I was not mocking, but merely telling this person that her wish would be granted.

Dear Deeje, I will keep this brief. The thing that made your statement look smug, was the winking and smiling emoticon you placed at the end. What angered me about it, is not because I'm super-sensitive as you assume but because you seem to lack compassion for a person that you believe is facing certain and irreversible death. There is nothing about your statement that expresses the Good News of the Gospel:

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Corinthians 5:19-21

You have to be careful that your love and loyalty for your denomination doesn't cloud your heart and mind from seeing and sharing the Good News of the Gospel.

 

[savagewind]

Actually, her wish might not be granted. Who really can be saved? With God all things are possible. Matthew 19:25-26

 

[james2ko]

We feel we have a superior way of life -- worshipping the true God, Jesus' Father, Jehovah, like no one else does today --but that really shouldn't carry over into having a superior attitude.

Sounds too much like the thought process of the Pharisees. It is also consistent with the disciples' mindset when asking Christ if they should stop that other "denomination" from using Christ's name to perform a miracle.

A superior attitude is a natural consequence of feeling you have a superior way of life and worshipping the true God like no one else does today. This is one of the reasons why He let the Scribes and Pharisees have it. It is also why Christ commanded His disciples to leave that other group alone.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What happens if someone decides to abuse her free will again, once we all, well you all, have returned to Him?

Ciao

- viole

Well, viole, that's one reason why Jehovah God has allowed this world to continue without Him intervening....the issues of right to rule, and of humans' ability to self-rule, needed time to be settled. But once they are, never again will they be legitimately raised. If they ever are, the record of these past 6,000 years of man's inhumanity to man will be brought to the fore, and the rebels be destroyed.

 

[savagewind]

rebels be destroyed.

OK Mr. Leen?

Will they still not let you?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Sounds too much like the thought process of the Pharisees. It is also consistent with the disciples' mindset when asking Christ if they should stop that other "denomination" from using Christ's name to perform a miracle.

A superior attitude is a natural consequence of feeling you have a superior way of life and worshipping the true God like no one else does today. This is one of the reasons why He let the Scribes and Pharisees have it. It is also why Christ commanded His disciples to leave that other group alone.

A superior attitude is a natural consequence of feeling you have a superior way of life and worshipping the true God like no one else does today. This is one of the reasons why He let the Scribes and Pharisees have it. It is also why Christ commanded His disciples to leave that other group alone.

I disagree to a point, James..... Did the first-century Christians have a superior way of life, than others? Certainly! They, only, had God's approval. Some may have had a problem with a superior attitude, because there's a lot of counsel in the Christian Greek Scriptures with regard to cultivating humility. But they did apply the counsel, because they increased in number......and people aren't drawn to arrogant ones.

We, too, are increasing.

Unfortunately, I feel your encounters with JW's have been with those who are the exception, rather than the rule. Have you ever been to a meeting?

 

[savagewind]

...and people aren't drawn to arrogant ones.

Aha. Where did the Third Reich come from?

 

[savagewind]

. Have you ever been to a meeting?

Honest to goodness, I have thought that JWs are not shocked by some of the things the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses dish up because of their paralyzed brains.

 

[savagewind]

They, only, had God's approval.

I think you are saying that in the first Century only Christians had God's approval. Can you back this up with something?

Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35

34 At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial,+ 35 but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.+

 

[JesusBeliever]

Honest to goodness, I have thought that JWs are not shocked by some of the things the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses dish up because of their paralyzed brains.

Hey savagewind, I think we too need to have a bit more compassion for JWs seeing that they truly believe they are doing God's work. We have to make sure that we're not tempted to hide our light under a bushel from some of the things they say. Which is why I often need to take regular breaks from the forum to find that space of love, peace and joy again. Let's also not let our hearts and minds be clouded from seeing and sharing the Good News of the Gospel both with them and those who haven't truly heard it yet. Coz it really is GOOD, GOOD NEWS! As I can tell you already know, by some of the Scriptures you share. Keep sharing the Scriptures that come to you brother, because there-in lies the true power to reach those who would love nothing more than to be reconciled to God, remembering that:

"...the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere. And those who are peacemakers will plant seeds of peace and reap a harvest of righteousness." James 3:17-18

 

[savagewind]

My post of the sleeping emotion thingy can be construed as sarcasm, but I was a JW for twenty years so I know the meetings are about paralyzing a person's thinking ability. I do not make up stuff to be mean.

Ecclesiastes 12:12

 

[JesusBeliever]

...I was a JW for twenty years so I know the meetings are about paralyzing a person's thinking ability. I do not make up stuff to be mean.

Ecclesiastes 12:12

Thanks for sharing that, and from the little I've experienced of the JW indoctrination I can appreciate what 20 years must have felt like. Just having the meetings with them at my home, was paralyzing for me at times. As are also some of their posts on this forum, despite being well versed in Scripture now. I just thank the Lord that He gave me enough prior warning to help free me from their paralyzing techniques. And I honestly mean no offence to the ordinary JW for saying this, coz I'm convinced that most of them are unawares. I was just lucky enough to have tried a sales job in my teens in which similar techniques were used. We used to go door to door just like JWs and our whole speech was carefully scripted from beginning to end. The sincerer we were the keener they were to tell us how great we'd be for their company. All we had to do was submit to their extensive training and trust their experience. Whenever a potential customer seemed to be diverting us from our sales pitch, we were given subtle techniques to bring them back to our script. And if all else failed we had one final technique that we were expected to carry out if we didn't want to lose our job. And that was the "Can I call my Supervisor" technique so he can get feedback from the customer about my demonstration, and whether I did a good job or not. This of course set the customer up, for feeling that they were doing you a favour and they were keen to praise you to your supervisor for your friendly and polite demeanour and your thorough demonstration of the product. All the while not being aware that they were being set up for the hard sale which involved the Supervisor making the customer feel dirty and disgusting if they were unwilling to sign up for their product. Thankfully, I only had the strength to endure one demonstration with a very lovely elderly retired couple. My heart was grieved for the elderly man who took the call by my Supervisor. He was literally shaking with paralytic shock at the cruel judgments that were being made on him and his wife. After the call, the poor man felt he needed to apologise to me and I said, "No, I'm so sorry but it is I that need to deeply apologise to you!" And told him I was going to quit the job coz it was wrong what they were teaching people like me to do to innocent and unsuspecting people like them. And I quit that very day.

I don't know whether the JWs have such a Supervisor technique coz I never got that far with them. Maybe that's why they send 2 people to our doors, although they'll probably use Scripture to defend this, it seems that they use the "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine, as is also evident on this thread. Deeje playing the Bad Cop and HockeyCowboy playing the Good Cop. No offence intended to you both but I do see the same sales techniques in play. Deeje does the bruising while HockeyCowboy does the soothing!

 

[james2ko]

I disagree to a point, James..... Did the first-century Christians have a superior way of life, than others? Certainly! They, only, had God's approval. Some may have had a problem with a superior attitude, because there's a lot of counsel in the Christian Greek Scriptures with regard to cultivating humility. But they did apply the counsel, because they increased in number......and people aren't drawn to arrogant ones.

The arrogant ( mistaken by the common folk for confidence) Pharisees were the most popular among the common people. They, along with the Sadducees, were also increasing in numbers.

We, too, are increasing.

The Scribes and Pharisees proved "member" growth is not necessarily a result of its humble members.

Unfortunately, I feel your encounters with JW's have been with those who are the exception, rather than the rule.

Over the last 35 years, I have encountered many JW's. By an overwhelming margin, the Pharisaic attitude has been the rule rather than the exception.

Have you ever been to a meeting?

I have not. Even if I did, that would not be an accurate measure of their "true" behavior. We all strive to be in our best "Christian" behavior during services. Especially around visitors. Again, I'm not anti JW. As was Jesus toward the Scribes and Pharisees, I am against their judgmental and condemnatory behavior toward those who do not ultimately subscribe to their dogma.