Lack of belief (yet again)

[DavidFirth]

Don't ask.

I just Googled it. You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

What is Raelism?

Come on David, you are on the internet, is it a "pay as you go" deal you have?
From Wiki:

"The Raëlian Movement teaches that life on Earth was scientifically created by a species of extraterrestrials, which they call the Elohim. Members of this species appeared human when having personal contacts with the descendants of the humans that they made. They purposefully misinformed early humanity that they were angels, cherubim, or gods. Raëlians believe that messengers, or prophets, of the Elohim include Buddha, Jesus, and others[2][3][4] who informed humans of each era.[5] The founder of Raëlism received the final message of the Elohim and that its purpose is to inform the world about Elohim and that if humans become aware and peaceful enough, they wish to be welcomed by them."

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I just Googled it. You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

Damn, sorry, a little behind there. I think you are right about not asking!

 

[DavidFirth]

Damn, sorry, a little behind there. I think you are right about not asking!

Contrary to popular belief, I do have a sense of humor.

 

[Deidre]

For myself, it's not so much an ''interest'' in atheism, rather a conclusion you just ...come to, eventually, after much reflection, etc. Emotionally speaking, atheism isn't an easy position when you've been a theist for most of your life, but that is the part I'm working out. I'd say what is ''positive'' about atheism is that it gets you to look at yourself, your strengths and weaknesses, without the need to escape into a faith to dictate to yourself, who you are. (or should be, etc) Just my opinion, anyways.

 

[Curious George]

For myself, it's not so much an ''interest'' in atheism, rather a conclusion you just ...come to, eventually, after much reflection, etc. Emotionally speaking, atheism isn't an easy position when you've been a theist for most of your life, but that is the part I'm working out. I'd say what is ''positive'' about atheism is that it gets you to look at yourself, your strengths and weaknesses, without the need to escape into a faith to dictate to yourself, who you are. (or should be, etc) Just my opinion, anyways.

I think the op is asking why is there always so much hullabaloo over the definition of atheism.

 

[sayak83]

I can understand why the historicity of Jesus would be a charged topic. Much the same can be said of the various manifestations of the evolution versus creationism debate. But what is there about the 'meaning' of atheism that invites such intense interest?

Because no knowledge is required on the topic to express an opinion on this matter.

 

[Willamena]

In that case, He is being incoherent and should clarify his position.
Let p be the statement "god exists" (which is equivalent to "god does exist")
p is false implies that ¬p is true.
¬p means "not 'god exists'" which is equivalent to "god does not exist".

That's not grammatically logical.

If the statement is that "god exists" (i.e. "p") is true, then its negation is that the statement is not true, rather than that god does not exist.

As an aside, you shouldn't mistake a statement (i.e. "p") for reality.

Similarly, ¬p is false implies p is true.

Let p be statement, "This statement is false."

 

[PureX]

Speak for yourself, bub. Virtually every atheist here has run into people who cared quite a bit about what they didn't believe.

(And the way you keep getting worked up about atheists kind of undercuts your own point)

I find the fact that you think I'm "worked up", puzzling. Could it be that atheists keep asserting what they don't believe so they can "work up" those who do? Because I can't think of any other reason to go around positing what you don't believe to be true, as opposed to what you do believe to be true.

 

[PureX]

Christian missionaries seem to care an awful lot about people not believing in God. Why else would they try to convert them?

Why would anyone care about what Christian missionaries care about? Why would you? I mean, if you meet one and they ask what you don't believe in, by all means, answer them. Though I assume that would be a VERY long list of things. Otherwise, who cares?

 

[PureX]

Unfortunately, way too many people. It has been a crime punishable by death to not believe in a deity. Even today, it is seen as making a person immoral or unethical.

What a load of BS.

When was the last time anyone asked you what you DON'T BELIEVE IN? When was the last time anyone threatened you because of what you don't believe?

Get real!

 

[Polymath257]

What a load of BS.

When was the last time anyone asked you what you DON'T BELIEVE IN? When was the last time anyone threatened you because of what you don't believe?

Get real!

People ask if you do believe, then get very hostile when you don't. It has produced family separation, it has been the basis of many expressions that I cannot be 'moral', there has been a president that has claimed atheists cannot be citizens.

Fortunately, the incidence of such has decreased over time, but not believing is still seen as a bad thing in itself.

 

[Curious George]

.... positing what you don't believe to be true, as opposed to what you do believe to be true.

I have to say, that this is well worded. I think it works better with "posting" or "saying" instead of positing. But if it hasn't been said before it is definitely quotable.

 

[McBell]

For me it's only an issue when uncharitable atheists use the "lack of" position to grant them a priveleged "default position" from where they can demand everyone else overcomes the "burden of proof".

The burden of proof belongs to the one making the claim.
It matters not if that claim is "God exists" or "God does not exist"
BOTH have the burden of proof.

This is different from those who simply lack a belief in god.
I lack a belief in god because I have not seen anything that convinces me god exists.
I do not make the claim "God does not exist".
Thus I do not have burden of proof.

It might be more of an annoyance at continually reading people argue in buzzwords more than a real quibble about the definition.

agreed.

 

[McBell]

I think the op is asking why is there always so much hullabaloo over the definition of atheism.

Because so many people (atheists and theists alike) add all manner of nonsense to the definition of atheism that has nothing to do with the definition of atheism.

 

[Curious George]

Why would anyone care about what Christian missionaries care about? Why would you? I mean, if you meet one and they ask what you don't believe in, by all means, answer them. Though I assume that would be a VERY long list of things. Otherwise, who cares?

For some people, unfortunately, "I don't believe in god" is a personal affront.

 

[Curious George]

Because so many people (atheists and theists alike) add all manner of nonsense to the definition of atheism that has nothing to do with the definition of atheism.

Well they either do it for good reason, or for no good reason. I tend to think the former, but imagine you think the latter.

 

[PureX]

People ask if you do believe, then get very hostile when you don't.

I am 60 years old, and have lived in huge cities and small towns, and I don't recall ANYONE, EVER, asking me what I believe about God, and then getting "hostile" when my beliefs did not align with theirs. Even the JoHos were polite and moved on when it became apparent to them that I wasn't having any of what they were selling.

I think a lot of you "atheists" have hyperbolized religiosity to the point of blaming religion for all manner of human ignorance, guile, and stupidity.

It has produced family separation, it has been the basis of many expressions that I cannot be 'moral', there has been a president that has claimed atheists cannot be citizens.

Fortunately, the incidence of such has decreased over time, but not believing is still seen as a bad thing in itself.

There are 7 billion humans on this planet, most of them screwed up in the head one way or another. You can find anecdotal examples of every bizarre and heinous thought and action imaginable. But it proves nothing except that we humans are nuts. I think you, like most of the atheists, here, are making WAY, WAY more out of religious intolerance than it warrants.

 

[PureX]

For some people, unfortunately, "I don't believe in god" is a personal affront.

How is what personally affronts them my problem? I see the upset faces fall on the JoHos that come around trying to sell me on eternal damnation when I make it clear to them I'm not interested, but so what? It's not like they egg my car for it, or anything.

 

[Curious George]

I am 60 years old, and have lived in huge cities and small towns, and I don't recall ANYONE, EVER, asking me what I believe about God, and then getting "hostile" when my beliefs did not align with theirs. Even the JoHos were polite and moved on when it became apparent to them that I wasn't having any of what they were selling.

I think a lot of you "atheists" have hyperbolized religiosity to the point of blaming religion for all manner of human ignorance, guile, and stupidity.

There are 7 billion humans on this planet, most of them screwed up in the head one way or another. You can find anecdotal examples of every bizarre and heinous thought and action imaginable. But it proves nothing except that we humans are nuts. I think you, like most of the atheists, here, are making WAY, WAY more out of religious intolerance than it warrants.

I don't know if it is a result of people making way, way more out of religious intolerance than it is, or people responding to your insistance that x doesn't happen.