Koran & Hadith in plain english?

[sun rise]

Also, there are esoteric interpretations of the Quran as discussed here Esoteric interpretation of the Quran - Wikipedia

I don't have the background to comment further but this is one more example of the ideas that surround the meaning of the text.

 

[firedragon]

If you have a point, make it.

I want to understand your understanding on the subject because you said you know Qiraat.

If you dont know, that's fine. I only specified Surathussana, the first chapter because it is small and easy to point out.

You will understand the subject only if you can give an example. And I can explain it to you. If you don't know what it is, I can probably explain it to you but it will be a different explanation.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

The canonicity of many of the recitals has certainly been debated over time by Muslims, so that point is debatable.

As is the question of non-canonical readings.

What do you mean canonical and non canonical?

Can you give some examples? Specifically from which manuscript and what were the criteria to deem them canonical and non canonical.

Thanks.

 

[Link]

Bro. What are you on about?

Can you give direct reference to a manuscript of the Qur'an in the Hijazi?

Thanks.

Salam bro

Here is a Sunni article on this, it's just a question about Tajweed:

230102 (abouttajweed.com)

I also thought it was two recitations, but three recitations actually have it as "family of Yaseen".

 

[Augustus]

I want to understand your understanding on the subject because you said you know Qiraat.

If you dont know, that's fine. I only specified Surathussana, the first chapter because it is small and easy to point out.

You will understand the subject only if you can give an example. And I can explain it to you. If you don't know what it is, I can probably explain it to you but it will be a different explanation.

Cheers.

What will that achieve?

Do you disagree with anything I have posted?

 

[firedragon]

Salam bro

Here is a Sunni article on this, it's just a question about Tajweed:

230102 (abouttajweed.com)

I also thought it was two recitations, but three recitations actually have it as "family of Yaseen".

Bro. Good God.

 

[firedragon]

What will that achieve?

Do you disagree with anything I have posted?

It will give your thought authenticity and as a reader I can analyse what you are saying.

So can you explain what you mean by canonical and non canonical readings in the Qur'an, and give some examples?

Thanks.

 

[Link]

Hafs ‘an ‘Aasim reads it with a kasrah on the hamzah, but three others, namely Naaf’, ibn ‘Aamir, and Ya’qoob read the first part as

, meaning family. This leads to different but all encompassing meanings, which one of the beauties of the different qira’aat. Since the qira’aat are all transmitted to us from the Prophet,

, they help give deeper understanding of the Qur’an.

------------------------------

From same article.

I disagree with article, in that, Hafs reads it grammar wise incorrect. Also, the meaning if you keep in mind Mohammad (S) in Surah before addressed as Yaseen, it obviously is linked to that.

 

[firedragon]

What will that achieve?

Do you disagree with anything I have posted?

If you dont know what Qiraat is and give a simple explanation from the most prominent and easiest chapter in the Quran, you have no clue of what you are talking about. Correct?

Thats the reason you are not answering this simple question.

 

[firedragon]

Hafs ‘an ‘Aasim reads it with a kasrah on the hamzah

For now, I shall not respond. Later. Okay my brother??

 

[Link]

For now, I shall not respond. Later. Okay my brother??

Up to you brother.

 

[firedragon]

Up to you brother.

Yes yes later later.

 

[Link]

Saudi petro-dollars at work has created an ignorance that now Muslims are afraid to acknowledge something generations of past Muslims had no problem acknowledging.

Repeat the lie - there is only one meaning in all the recitations and set of words, and people forget something known that the different recitations was passed down mainly regarding meaning. For example where the hamza ends in 3:7 on Allah or Rasikhoon fil Ilm.

 

[Augustus]

What do you mean canonical and non canonical?

Typo, meant variations. Non-canonical variations "pre-Uthmanic"

See for example:

The Codex of a Companion of the Prophet and the Qur'ān of the Prophet Author(s): Behnam Sadeghi and Uwe Bergmann
Source: Arabica, T. 57, Fasc. 4 (2010), pp. 343-436

If you dont know what Qiraat is and give a simple explanation from the most prominent and easiest chapter in the Quran, you have no clue of what you are talking about. Correct?

Thats the reason you are not answering this simple question.

It's largely because it's a waste of time discussing anything with you as you have decided you are the only person in the universe who knows anything on the subject and you present some odd series of irrelevant hoops for people to jump through in lieu of actually making a normal argument.

It's like someone saying "Studies show the covid vaccine is beneficial"

You: "Tell me the precise manner in which mRNA interacts with the bodies immune system and the etymology of every word to describe any part of the process whilst giving a sequential breakdown of the entire human genome."

If you have a point, make it. If not, then what are we discussing?

 

[Link]

Malik (Controller of) and Malek (King) in Surah Fatiha is the most well known one, but it's insignificant. The meaning is practically same.

Some of the differences are insignificant, others are very significant.

 

[firedragon]

Typo, meant variations. Non-canonical variations "pre-Uthmanic"

See for example:

The Codex of a Companion of the Prophet and the Qur'ān of the Prophet Author(s): Behnam Sadeghi and Uwe Bergmann
Source: Arabica, T. 57, Fasc. 4 (2010), pp. 343-436

Ah. Non canonical variations. Thats what you mean by non canonical text? You mean textual variants without a Qiraat chain of narrations?

Can you please give the example? Like Lahoo and Lahum traditionally deemed Uthmanic? Or do you have another example? I am just trying to understand what you really mean. Thats it.

It's largely because it's a waste of time discussing anything with you as you have decided you are the only person in the universe who knows anything on the subject and you present some odd series of irrelevant hoops for people to jump through in lieu of actually making a normal argument.

It's like someone saying "Studies show the covid vaccine is beneficial"

You: "Tell me the precise manner in which mRNA interacts with the bodies immune system and the etymology of every word to describe any part of the process whilst giving a sequential breakdown of the entire human genome."

If you have a point, make it. If not, then what are we discussing?

See. All your ad hominem is great for you if you feel good. But that does not answer simple questions you see?

You said you know Qiraat & that's why I asked you. I understand a lot of people in the world knows this. Its predominantly an Islamic concept so many many muslims know this. You probably know it too.

But just give an example. If you dont know, its alright. Just say you dont know what you are talking about.

If you want to understand, no problem someone can explain to you. I dont know much about mRNA etc etc, so if you have knowledge on it, please do explain in another thread. All good.

I am particularly asking about your own claim. Sometimes we can all claim at a higher level, and if we dont know a deeper example, we can simply say "I dont know. Let me find out, or please inform me". Simple humility. Better than making some ad hominem.

Hope you understand.

 

[Augustus]

Ah. Non canonical variations. Thats what you mean by non canonical text? You mean textual variants without a Qiraat chain of narrations?

Can you please give the example? Like Lahoo and Lahum traditionally deemed Uthmanic? Or do you have another example? I am just trying to understand what you really mean. Thats it.

There are plenty in the referenced text.

See. All your ad hominem is great for you if you feel good. But that does not answer simple questions you see?

You said you know Qiraat & that's why I asked you. I understand a lot of people in the world knows this. Its predominantly an Islamic concept so many many muslims know this. You probably know it too.

But just give an example. If you dont know, its alright. Just say you dont know what you are talking about.

If you want to understand, no problem someone can explain to you. I dont know much about mRNA etc etc, so if you have knowledge on it, please do explain in another thread. All good.

I am particularly asking about your own claim. Sometimes we can all claim at a higher level, and if we dont know a deeper example, we can simply say "I dont know. Let me find out, or please inform me". Simple humility. Better than making some ad hominem.

Hope you understand.

So you don't have a point?

 

[firedragon]

There are plenty in the referenced text.

Okay.

So you don't have a point?

No problem.

There are two types of variants that people speak of. One is if it should be explained in English, a rendition variant and a textual variant. You have given a scholarly work by Sadeghi. Sadeghi addresses textual variants. A Qir'aath is a tradition, but if you take a text like Arabe 328 and compare that with another text like the current print of the Qur'an, you will not be able to make that distinction. Because it is not a textual variant that you are speaking about.

In the first chapter, the difference would be some like Maalik and Malik. Now Sadeghi draws from the makaam and the Hadith tradition that reports certain variants. Great work.

Peace.

 

[Link]

Salam

@firedragon there are textual difference for example:

Tabayanu and tathabatu

There it's not only the vowels but arrangement of the letters. It's not only vowels.

 

[firedragon]

Salam

@firedragon there are textual difference for example:

Tabayanu and tathabatu

There it's not only the vowels but arrangement of the letters. It's not only vowels.

I know mate. Many. I never said there are no textual variants.

Anyway, what is this variant you are speaking about? Between which two texts?