Killing IS justified

[InChrist]

Only by you and those like you, the bible and life though tell different stories

Loving and wise yet when he designed his masterpiece it was faulty.

Merciful and compassionate? Have you ever seen a child dying of leukemia?

Patient and kind? How patient and kind was he with the firstborn of egypt?


And it seems hes a hypocrite too by saying thou shalt not kill while killing the world population.

You can excuse the bible stories all you like, it wont make it right

Why are you so ready to blame God instead of the putting the responsibility on human sinfulness and the damaging consequences that are caused by it?

 

[ChristineM]

Also, I couldn’t figure out why so many Christians were such ‘nasty b****ards’ either. I tried so many churches, and got more and more baffled. Then after extensive reading of the Bible I found the answer. It happens to be exactly the same thing that makes non-Christians such ‘nasty b****ards’. And there is a clue to the answer in this thread.

Sure there are nasty b***ards in all walks of life but most dont band together to mock and ridicule a child, it takes true cheistians for that

 

[Shad]

Why don't you punch the assailant in the mouth and run?

I previously included being unable to escape as criteria. It is still applicable.

What weapons does the assailant have?

Doesn't matter.

Why did the assailant pick on you?

Could be for money, racism, drunk, etc. Doesn't matter as I included unprovoked as a criteria

You really should try chucking down your watch etc. Try running away.

Already addressed.

Use your wits.

I did by owning firearms.

And then if you really do have to kill the person you can show a Court that you did everything possible BEFORE you killed.

Not required.

Stop being so frightened, is my suggestion.

Frightened of what exactly?

 

[ChristineM]

Why are you so ready to blame God instead of the putting the responsibility on human sinfulness and the damaging consequences that are caused by it?

First off. If Harry Potter created something by magic that was faulty so he destroyed it. Would you say the fault was Harry Potters?

So according to your bible, the main character created a product that was faulty so he killed them.

By your book who created humans?

One cannot blame the a product that is poorly made for inherent faults.

What i fail to understand is why anyone can support a character from a bronze age book to the extent they cherry pick from that book and ignore the bad bits, then get all uppity when the bad bits are mentioned.

I did not write the bible. I only read it as written.

 

[ChristineM]

If the God of the Bible does not eliminate, punish or deal with evil at some point and lets it go on for eternity, then this god you speak of is an enabler of evil, abuse and an evil being. But that is not the God I see revealed in the scriptures.

You do not see the creator of evil and abuse as the creator of evil and abuse?

 

[InChrist]

First off. If Harry Potter created something by magic that was faulty so he destroyed it. Would you say the fault was Harry Potters?

So according to your bible, the main character created a product that was faulty so he killed them.

By your book who created humans?

One cannot blame the a product that is poorly made for inherent faults.

What i fail to understand is why anyone can support a character from a bronze age book to the extent they cherry pick from that book and ignore the bad bits, then get all uppity when the bad bits are mentioned.

I did not write the bible. I only read it as written.

Comparing Harry Potter to the Being who created heaven and earth does not compute in my mind.

I don't see that God created a faulty product. I see that He intentionally created humans with the capacity of free choice. On the contrary, I don't ignore the "bad" parts of the Bible or mind you mentioning them. I just see that creating creatures with freewill is so important that God sees the necessity of allowing even the most horrendous abuses of that gift of freedom so as to accomplish His ultimate goal. That is relational eternal love.

Even the most well made products can be damaged when people misuse or abuse them and don't follow the owner's manual.

 

[InChrist]

You do not see the creator of evil and abuse as the creator of evil and abuse?

No, I see evil and abuse as the human violation of God's perfect love, will and design.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Unfortunately a lot of 'self-defence' was unnecessary, as in the killing of a person who has wandered in to property by mistake.
Would you kill an intruder before calling out a warning ??
The 'self-defence' theme is often an excuse for hystericals to kill, I think.

I would not kill an intruder before getting at least some idea of their identity/motive, no. Though I can't say I'd necessarily "call out a warning" before acting, if I knew I hadn't yet been detected/noticed by them. I would also have to say that I'd aim not to kill, unless I felt it was absolutely necessary - as in, the person was actively attacking me with what seemed like deadly intent. But as soon as I deemed it so, I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Boo.

No proof again.

Just your own self focused ideas about right and wrong.

But that’s ok.

You have a lot of company.

Here's my proof:

The moment someone shows intent to seriously harm or kill you, they are announcing to the world that they believe the act of harming/killing is acceptable. That alone justifies dealing the same to them within the confines of those specific circumstances. As a twist on the golden rule: "do not do unto others that which you are not prepared to have done unto yourself." They failed to prove to me that they did not want to be harmed - in fact they failed to prove to me that they are even capable of remaining neutral, and they must accept the consequences if it is within my power to dole them out. You may not like it. It doesn't make these "announcements" made by people any less clear.

• You're a thief? Don't come crying to me when someone steals their stuff (or more) back from you.
• You're a murderer? Don't come crying to me when someone tries to kill you before you kill them.
• You're a rapist? Don't come crying to me when you are assaulted by your would-be victim.

 

[Shad]

Boo.

No proof again.

Just your own self focused ideas about right and wrong.

But that’s ok.

You have a lot of company.

The topic is just beyond you or you are in an ideological straight-jacket.

 

[oldbadger]

If nature means life on Earth then you know it can be killed. Don't you?

Nature is everything in the Universe. Just try killing that.

 

[oldbadger]

Not required.

Wow! The above was your reply to my point:-
And then if you really do have to kill the person you can show a Court that you did everything possible BEFORE you killed.
........ to which you reply:- Not required.

I'll leave that for any readers to chew on.

Frightened of what exactly?

I'll leave any readers to decide whether youi are frightened of your shadow.

 

[oldbadger]

I would not kill an intruder before getting at least some idea of their identity/motive, no. Though I can't say I'd necessarily "call out a warning" before acting, if I knew I hadn't yet been detected/noticed by them. I would also have to say that I'd aim not to kill, unless I felt it was absolutely necessary - as in, the person was actively attacking me with what seemed like deadly intent. But as soon as I deemed it so, I wouldn't hesitate.

OK....... fair enough.
Now..... please help me with this....... in your (any) imagined scenario of a domestic intrusion in to your home, and you are assessing everything as described above, could you just extend your scenario to tell me.... how did the intruder gain entry to your home?

ibycnatqs

 

[ChristineM]

Comparing Harry Potter to the Being who created heaven and earth does not compute in my mind.

I don't see that God created a faulty product. I see that He intentionally created humans with the capacity of free choice. On the contrary, I don't ignore the "bad" parts of the Bible or mind you mentioning them. I just see that creating creatures with freewill is so important that God sees the necessity of allowing even the most horrendous abuses of that gift of freedom so as to accomplish His ultimate goal. That is relational eternal love.

Even the most well made products can be damaged when people misuse or abuse them and don't follow the owner's manual.

Maybe not in your mind but both are fictional characters from books.

If giving your product free will means having to kill your product because you dont like the free will, that is a design error.

Products can be damaged when subject to misuse and abuse, now all you need to do is show that every person except noah and his family were abused. Same applies to the innocent people killed by your gods mass slaighters.

 

[ChristineM]

No, I see evil and abuse as the human violation of God's perfect love, will and design.

I am sure you do.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

OK....... fair enough.
Now..... please help me with this....... in your (any) imagined scenario of a domestic intrusion in to your home, and you are assessing everything as described above, could you just extend your scenario to tell me.... how did the intruder gain entry to your home?

ibycnatqs

Let's say I accidentally left the door unlocked before going to bed, or they broke a window on a door, reached in and unlocked it themselves, or they played the long game and entered the house stealthily during the day when the doors weren't locked and are hiding out somewhere in the house. What does this matter, by the way?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The topic is just beyond you or you are in an ideological straight-jacket.

It’s a shame YOUR mind is so centered on YOURSELF, that YOU are incapable of seeing reality.
(Sounds like an ideological straight jacket of your own making)

The bottom line to this entire exchange is this:

YOU believe YOUR life is more valuable than the other person.

Therefore, your thoughts and feelings focus on YOURSELF.

That’s how YOU can justify any evil that YOU conjure up in YOUR mind, in order for YOU to do evil things to other people.

It makes no matter whether someone intrudes into YOUR space, whether they break into YOUR home, or cut YOU off in traffic.
YOUR false belief of being better than others, gives YOU the freedom to choose to harm others in any number of ways.

It is not possible for a person to know truth, nor do good, unless that person is willing to put others AT LEAST equal to themselves.

Matthew 16:25-26
25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?

Can you answer that question? What will you profit from taking things from others? Including their life. Everything you own will someday be dust, including your body.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

It’s a shame YOUR mind is so centered on YOURSELF, that YOU are incapable of seeing reality.

The bottom line to this entire exchange is this:

YOU believe YOUR life is more valuable than the other person.

Therefore, your thoughts and feelings focus on YOURSELF.

That’s how YOU can justify any evil that YOU conjure up in YOUR mind, in order for YOU to do evil things to other people.

I included this in the above

 

[savagewind]

I included this in the above

You can't rightly say it's always about a person's own self. There might be children present in the home.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It’s a shame YOUR mind is so centered on YOURSELF, that YOU are incapable of seeing reality.

The bottom line to this entire exchange is this:

YOU believe YOUR life is more valuable than the other person.

Therefore, your thoughts and feelings focus on YOURSELF.

That’s how YOU can justify any evil that YOU conjure up in YOUR mind, in order for YOU to do evil things to other people.

Here's the problem with this ridiculous stance you keep trying to take - of course I am more important TO MYSELF than the other person is to me. Of course! Just as my wife is more important than that other person is to me. If the other person were just as important to me as my wife, then I would make sure to get gifts for that other person on their birthday, tell them I loved them each day, etc. Do you do those things for everyone you have ever met on Earth? Of course you don't. You prize specific people above others just like every other human on the face of this Earth. If that other person were just as important to me as myself, then I would pay their mortgage, make sure they had 3 meals per day, get them to work on time, etc. Do you do this for every other person you have ever met? NO, YOU DON'T. Duh. Duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh.

Give me a break. You have no leg to stand on with this nonsense. From an objective perspective, perhaps no one is more important than any other. Fine. Who cares?? From a subjective perspective we ALL treat those closest to us with the greatest reverence... as well we should. Are you seriously going to argue against the idea that this is permissible? That I should be going around hugging and tucking in death row inmates just like I do my child at night? Get serious.