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Killing for apostacy is against Quran.

danieldemol

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
But you must know the method of the scholar to know if its agreeable. Just agreeing with what someone says because his scholar says with no verification whatsoever is confirmation of bias. You just didnt like this so called "peaceful interpretation" if there is such a thing and you quoted someone else's so called "interpretation" with out knowing a cents worth about it because it was nice to you because your intention was to demonise the so called peaceful interpretation.

When people are driven by agenda like that they commit a lot of logical fallacies. Its absolutely evident.

Have a good day.
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No I don't need to know the method of the scholar to know if his interpretation is agreeable to his interpretation. I know it is agreeable to his interpretation because he says it is.

You are misreading me as making a claim about whether or not the scholar's interpretation is true to the Quran then smearing me with ad-hominem and empty assertion of fallacies which I have demonstrated not to be true in the prior posts.

In my opinion.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
firedragon said:
But you must know the method of the scholar to know if its agreeable. Just agreeing with what someone says because his scholar says with no verification whatsoever is confirmation of bias. You just didnt like this so called "peaceful interpretation" if there is such a thing and you quoted someone else's so called "interpretation" with out knowing a cents worth about it because it was nice to you because your intention was to demonise the so called peaceful interpretation.

When people are driven by agenda like that they commit a lot of logical fallacies. Its absolutely evident.

Have a good day.
Click to expand...

Okay, meta it is.
Yes, it is possible to use logic and evidence. But it has a limit for everyday life and for what is in the end normative/ought/moral and all that jazz, I have so far found nobody able to do it for all of everyday life.
 
danieldemol

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
Appeal to authority.

Logical fallacy.
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Appeal to Authority
Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered.
Source: Appeal to Authority

In this case I'm not saying it's true that he interprets it such a way because an authority says so, I'm providing the evidence that he interprets it such a way. Thus you are just fallacy bashing without understanding how the fallacy applies.

In my opinion.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
danieldemol said:
Appeal to Authority
Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered.
Source: Appeal to Authority

In this case I'm not saying it's true that he interprets it such a way because an authority says so, I'm providing the evidence that he interprets it such a way. Thus you are just fallacy bashing without understanding how the fallacy applies.

In my opinion.
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Excellent. So you are not saying this "authority" is correct. Why quote it? Cant you address the argument posed directly?
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Link said:
Salam

In the 4th Chapter of Quran, we read:

What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. 88They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. 89Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them. 90You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

These verses show there was a group of hypocrites. The Quran then says if they turn back (ie. leave the religion) to kill them except for those who offer peace or their people is who an alliance is with Muslims. The Muslims at that time were at war with polytheists in general, but there was some still at peace with them.

These verses show even from people who fought Mohammad (s), if those specific people are from people fighting Mohammad (S) but themselves offer peace and say they won't fight Mohammad (s) and his followers, than not to kill them.

There is no compulsion in religion: rectitude has become distinct from error. So one who disavows fake deities and has faith in Allah has held fast to the firmest handle for which there is no breaking; and Allah is all-hearing, all-knowing. (2:256)

This verse was revealed when a companion of Mohammad (s) talked about his kids wanting to remain of their religion and not convert to Islam. This verse was revealed on that occasion.

And the meaning is clear, you shouldn't try to force religion on people and make them come to it while they are averse.

فَذَكِّرْ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُذَكِّرٌ 21 لَسْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ بِمُصَيْطِرٍ

Remind, you are only one who reminds. Not are you an enforcer on them.

(Surah Ghashiya, near the end)


The question, is why do apostacy rules exist, despite this? It's part of the unjust nature scholars and their followers are towards Quran that results in this.

They prefer ahadith over Quran when their scholars emphasize on those hadiths.
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Caused death of anyone, for any other reason, than murder, and murder in the name of God, is forbidden.
 
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