Jupiter does not orbit the sun

[We Never Know]

How do you want to define the Solar System? If you only go out to Pluto, then yes. If you use the idea that the edge of solar sysem is 100,000 AU out then maybe no.

Before pluto, after pluto. Is it still the solar system?
Explain your answer.

To add... If our solar system has an edge/end, and our galaxy has an edge/end, and every galaxy we know of us an edge/end.... Why wouldn't the universe have an edge/end?

Beyond that if the universe has no edge/end, couldn't the number of galaxie be infinite instead of numbered as we have them?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Before pluto, after pluto. Is it still the solar system?
Explain your answer.

It is not my defintion. It is the definition of astronomers I Google searched the distance to the "edge of the Solar System" and the largest figure I found was 100,000 astronomical units. That seemed awfully large to me, but then I am not an astronomer. And thinking further you could even get a very rough answer with that info. Compare the vclume of that sphere to the volume of the galaxy. Divide the volume of our solar sytems by the volume of the galaxy and multiply by the mass of the dark matter in our galaxy. You would have a very rough estimate of the mass of the dark matter in that volume.

 

[We Never Know]

It is not my defintion. It is the definition of astronomers I Google searched the distance to the "edge of the Solar System" and the largest figure I found was 100,000 astronomical units. That seemed awfully large to me, but then I am not an astronomer. And thinking further you could even get a very rough answer with that info. Compare the vclume of that sphere to the volume of the galaxy. Divide the volume of our solar sytems by the volume of the galaxy and multiply by the mass of the dark matter in our galaxy. You would have a very rough estimate of the mass of the dark matter in that volume.

I edited my post...


To add... If our solar system has an edge/end, and our galaxy has an edge/end, and every galaxy we know of has an edge/end.... Why wouldn't the universe have an edge/end?

Beyond that if the universe has no edge/end, couldn't the number of galaxie be infinite instead of numbered as we have them?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I edited my post...


To add... If our solar system has an edge/end, and our galaxy has an edge/end, and every galaxy we know of has an edge/end.... Why wouldn't the universe have an edge/end?

Beyond that if the universe has no edge/end, couldn't the number of galaxie be infinite instead of numbered as we have them?

Don't ask me. I am too far from being an expert to give a meaningful answer. But just for fun I will say:

"Not necessarily".

 

[We Never Know]

Don't ask me. I am too far from being an expert to give a meaningful answer. But just for fun I will say:

"Not necessarily".

"Not necessarily" to....?

There was more than one question in my post. Your answer of "not necessarily" doesn't answer anything. Its more if a avoidance of answering.

 

[Heyo]

It is not my defintion. It is the definition of astronomers I Google searched the distance to the "edge of the Solar System" and the largest figure I found was 100,000 astronomical units. That seemed awfully large to me, but then I am not an astronomer. And thinking further you could even get a very rough answer with that info. Compare the vclume of that sphere to the volume of the galaxy. Divide the volume of our solar sytems by the volume of the galaxy and multiply by the mass of the dark matter in our galaxy. You would have a very rough estimate of the mass of the dark matter in that volume.

from Voyager 1
explained in 1189: Voyager 1 - explain xkcd

 

[Subduction Zone]

from Voyager 1
explained in 1189: Voyager 1 - explain xkcd

That is exactly why I chose the larges value that I could find. Frankly it is beyond me how they define an "edge" at roughlty 1 and 1/3 of a light year out. If one uses Pluto the answer is obvivus. But if one is willing to go to exterme and unreasonable distances then dark matter may become a noticable fracition of th emass of the Solar System. mass.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Before pluto, after pluto. Is it still the solar system?
Explain your answer.

To add... If our solar system has an edge/end, and our galaxy has an edge/end, and every galaxy we know of us an edge/end.... Why wouldn't the universe have an edge/end?

Beyond that if the universe has no edge/end, couldn't the number of galaxie be infinite instead of numbered as we have them?

The universe could be infinite and unbounded, or there could be an infinite number of universes, but the limits of the observable universe, which has been expanding for approximately 13.8 billion years - according to the theoretical model which best fits the observations - are determined by the rate of expansion and the distance light can travel in that time. Using Hubble’s Law, which observes that the further a galaxy is from us the faster it is receding, cosmologists can define a Hubble Sphere, beyond which objects are receding faster than the speed of light, and from which no information can reach us. Which is not to say distant galaxies are moving faster than the speed of light, because that of course can’t happen; it’s the expansion of space itself that causes the galaxies to rush away from each other, not that the galaxies moving through space. However, as current cosmological models predict that the rate of expansion of the universe varies over time - recent observations suggests we are in an era of accelerating expansion - then the Hubble Sphere can change size and potentially overtake light which was previously beyond it’s parameters.

The question is often asked, if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? The answer often given by cosmologists, is that since time and space are qualities specific to our universe, they cannot exist outside of it, therefore there can be no space or time into which the universe is expanding. By this token, even a finite universe has no meaningful edge or boundary; it may help to remember that while the universe is known to be expanding, it is not doing so outward from a particular defined point. It’s expanding homogeneously, that is to say equally everywhere at once.

 

[blü 2]

Not sure about my take on this. Never heard it before. Have you?

"Jupiter does not technically orbit the sun — because it's so dauntingly massive."

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/jupiter-big-orbit-sun-mass-a7866586.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16573210481266&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/jupiter-big-orbit-sun-mass-a7866586.html

Long ago someone wrote a science fiction story in which some passing aliens came in order to subject Jupiter to a collapsing process by which it would ignite and become the second star of the solar system ─ I forget why. The idea of the Sun and Jupiter as binary stars included the notion of orbiting each other.

I'd be much happier post this if I could remember the title, the author and the magazine, but at least you've reminded me there was such a story.

 

[exchemist]

Not sure about my take on this. Never heard it before. Have you?

"Jupiter does not technically orbit the sun — because it's so dauntingly massive."

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/jupiter-big-orbit-sun-mass-a7866586.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16573210481266&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/jupiter-big-orbit-sun-mass-a7866586.html

Yeah this is a bit trivial, to be honest. All pairs of bodies orbit about their common centre of gravity.

However with most of the planets, the combined centre of gravity of the planet-plus-sun system lies inside the sun, though not quite at its centre of course. So the sun is constantly executing a kind of wobble due to the effect of the orbiting planets. But Jupiter, being so large, makes it wobble more than the others.

But indeed a bit of proper science, for once, though only in Britain is the reading public considered so ignorant of science that this is worthy of a newspaper article. In a French or German newspaper, it would be assumed the reader would know this sort of thing - or would only need a quick reminder en passant.

 

[Heyo]

Long ago someone wrote a science fiction story in which some passing aliens came in order to subject Jupiter to a collapsing process by which it would ignite and become the second star of the solar system ─ I forget why. The idea of the Sun and Jupiter as binary stars included the notion of orbiting each other.

I'd be much happier post this if I could remember the title, the author and the magazine, but at least you've reminded me there was such a story.

2001 A Space Odyssey, based on "The Sentinel" written by Arthur C. Clarke.

 

[RestlessSoul]

2001 A Space Odyssey, based on "The Sentinel" written by Arthur C. Clarke.

Stanley Kubrick, one of the great directors, and what a movie that was. I got taken to see it by my nan when I was 9 years old. Expecting some sort of sci fi adventure, I was bitterly disappointed at the time. I have since watched it several times, though never yet on the big screen. Still don’t really understand the ending; something about humans coming from the stars and returning to be reborn there? And the evolution of galaxies, stars and consciousness accelerated by the intervention of mysterious unseen entities?

 

[blü 2]

2001 A Space Odyssey, based on "The Sentinel" written by Arthur C. Clarke.

Is that right? Odyssey was about turning Jupiter into a new sun? Oh my failing memory ...

 

[Stevicus]

Is that right? Odyssey was about turning Jupiter into a new sun? Oh my failing memory ...

I think that was in the sequel, 2010: The Year We Make Contact.

 

[Revoltingest]

Word games...pbbbbbbtttttttttt!
Jupiter orbits sun.
Moon orbits earth.
Center not where some people expect?
Meh...interesting, but not a game changer.

 

[Heyo]

Is that right? Odyssey was about turning Jupiter into a new sun? Oh my failing memory ...

It's my failing memory. As @Stevicus said, it was 2010 when Jupiter gets turned into a sun.

 

[blü 2]

It's my failing memory. As @Stevicus said, it was 2010 when Jupiter gets turned into a sun.

Thanks. Must have read that somewhere, didn't see the movie.

 

[Heyo]

Thanks. Must have read that somewhere, didn't see the movie.

Clarke also wrote the template to that one.

In reality Jupiter is not massive enough to sustain fusion, even if it could be compressed to the ignition point.

 

[Polymath257]

Dark matter has mass. Dark matter is said/thought in overall gravitational force of normal matter combined with dark matter in our solar system, about 45% of this force is from dark matter and 55% is from normal.

So does the sun really make up 99.8% of the mass of everything in our solar system?

Don't confuse solar system dynamics with galactic dynamics. Newtonian physics works incredibly well in our solar system: your percentages are for the galaxy as a whole. The actual dark matter density is very low. We know this partly because of solar system dynamics.

So, yes, the sun does constitute 99.8% of the mass of the solar system.

 

[Polymath257]

Before pluto, after pluto. Is it still the solar system?
Explain your answer.

Typically, the solar system is defined to be that within the heliopause, where solar wind forms a shock wave with extra stellar space. Pluto and many other Kuiper belt objects are well within this.

To add... If our solar system has an edge/end, and our galaxy has an edge/end, and every galaxy we know of us an edge/end.... Why wouldn't the universe have an edge/end?

The 'edge' is mostly a matter of convention. We define the edge of the solar system (often) to be at the heliopause. But there are definitions that allow it to go well beyond that: say a distance where things are more gravitationally bound to the sun than anything else.

As for the galaxy, that is very much a matter of definition. In a dark matter setting, the 'edge' would be much farther out than the visible stars and would be defined by some arbitrary level of density.

Beyond that if the universe has no edge/end, couldn't the number of galaxie be infinite instead of numbered as we have them?

Possibly, depending on the geometry of space. if it is flat or negatively curved, then yes, the number of galaxies could be infinite. If it is positively curved, the number could be finite.

In any case, we know there is much more than simply what we can see: light has only had 13.8 billion years to travel, and so we can't yet see farther than 13.8 light years away (there are some relativistic effects because of expansion).