Judaism vs Christianity: Second Coming of Messiah

[rosends]

Yes, I agree that this kind of behavior is strange indeed, to say the least


Yes, that's what I guessed.

My Master discourages the use of sarcasm, cynicism, irony
Question: Are those (generally) encouraged or discourages in your faith?

There are many different approaches that are modeled by great teachers. Most rely on a presumption of sincerity in the questioner driving sincerity in the response. There is also, though, a tradition of not countenancing insincerity, and not allowing mistakes to stand unchallenged (as they lead people astray). There is no specific obligation to be gentle with those who misrepresent my beliefs, and no rule saying I must be angry. My goal is to be effective.

 

[Shaul]

No... that isn't how we came to that conclusion.

Are you suggesting the Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled all the messianic prophecies already?

 

[stvdv]

There are many different approaches that are modeled by great teachers. Most rely on a presumption of sincerity in the questioner driving sincerity in the response. There is also, though, a tradition of not countenancing insincerity, and not allowing mistakes to stand unchallenged (as they lead people astray). There is no specific obligation to be gentle with those who misrepresent my beliefs, and no rule saying I must be angry. My goal is to be effective.

Thank you. Indeed sincerity is a good criteria. And it better be effective, otherwise it's wasted effort

I used to never express my anger. My Master usually says "You can't always oblige, but you can always speak obligingly".
In a dream He told me once "I am very happy if you get very angry". I did not get the hint then

Then in real life He scolded me in a loud voice for all 20.000 people there to hear/see.
This time I got the lesson loud and clear. It's totally fine to get angry when needed

That was one of the best Blessings He gave me.

 

[rational experiences]

A document about a one of event was written after the fact of all of its occurrences.

So the document only is written after all fact, all stories, all themes, in the very moment where it was complied afterwards.

Which would place all information before it was written.

Common human sense actually........all information before the WORDS were written.

So then an inane human quotes before God....the word. Falsification of information and coercive persuasion by a reader only, not the writer.

Then you quote God O the stone planet coldest form Earth body mass for a scientist human to take energy/body from mass in a human theoried design to build a reaction already strung into the gain machine/design, a machine history....to build and design.

Invention.

God was never invented. God O the stone is not any coldest beginning in the history of space either. So God never even existed historic as a beginning, only in science theorising. To make God release coldest forms, stone owned to own human applied science. As a storyteller, as a designer as the human who changed God.

So today if science quotes I will find God and have God as its coldest highest history they are only talking about fusion, the body O planet mass. As God by human definition never existed anywhere else.

So you cannot say God in the beginning for stone philosophy stone is not the big bang lying theism.

For consciousness does not live in out of space, it lives inside of an earth heavens, had human experiences when forces changed, including Earth void/vacuum and own human past life memories about it all, actually.

So the place where the Christ Revelations new Testimonials were written at a place in time of DATA/book compilation of a lot of other historic kept records would have been after it happened again, to prove that it did happen again. For Moses in science statements said it would happen again for Satanism, self human male thinking possession is real. And it is named science.

In the past they quote, when consciousness, human being the discussion heals and returns then the scientist sacrifices life once again....seeing the human male adult Father self owned the choice/invention science against self survival.

So when his own baby to adult life, lives and inherits from birth the sacrifice, live as a spiritual person, a healer and learn, then they do. Knowing that they are not healthy and nor is their human family because of the scientist and his history.

Why we called him a Satanist.

For O God the stone Earth owns its owned created hell volcanic mass within it....so it was never historic on the outside of Earth, it was released.

For stone has to exist sealed first as God O to own whatever conversions occur inside of it.

So God O Earth hell was never origins in space.....although the psyche claims, but the volcanic mass spewed onto the outside of the planet body and it cooled again.

God as mass O burning in Hell is like the body of a Sun which is not a volcano actually, as first law hot body.

When science says first law is cold, science quotes but you are only thinking on behalf of a machine gain from cold mass God as Earth and then continued God O Earth mass cold removal/conversion as a machine reaction.

Science after all is practiced only after God the O stone planet exists...where they abstract machine matter from.

Coercion is a real human teaching about science in human life not telling the truth, and own our destruction by personality expression. Why a document detailing the human male personality Destroyer statement was written.

 

[Flankerl]

That doesn't detract that the individual Jewish person who accepts Jesus as the Messiah is a Messianic Jew.

Well it's not that simple.
If we actually cared more they would most likely be officially cut off as they engage in Avodah Zarah.
There are I think 45 mitzvot who are entirely about people like them.

 

[Kenny]

Are you suggesting the Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled all the messianic prophecies already?

There are a litany of prophecies, past, present and future. As Christians we believe there are those he fulfilled in the past and there are some messianic prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled. For an example, we believe that Isaiah 53 was fulfilled through the Cross.

 

[Kenny]

Well it's not that simple.
If we actually cared more they would most likely be officially cut off as they engage in Avodah Zarah.
There are I think 45 mitzvot who are entirely about people like them.

It is interesting that we don't hear much about Jewish Hindu's, Jewish Buddhists and even atheists... but when it comes to the Jewish Yeshua, there seems to be a problem.

Jewish Attitudes Toward Eastern Religions | My Jewish Learning

Why do you think that is?

 

[rosends]

It is interesting that we don't hear much about Jewish Hindu's, Jewish Buddhists and even atheists... but when it comes to the Jewish Yeshua, there seems to be a problem.

Jewish Attitudes Toward Eastern Religions | My Jewish Learning

Why do you think that is?

First, I have known some Jewish Buddhists (and have questioned them about the problems built in to that). Second the idea of Christianity rejects central elements of Judaism so it is much harder to reconcile the two theologies whereas Buddhism (which according to a simplistic understanding is about a man designed path, not worship of a divinity) can be seen by some not to negate Judaism.

Third, I have never heard any Jews who converted to Hinduism, accepting the Hindu pantheon of gods, maintain that they are still Jewish and that there is such a notion as a Jewish Hindu.

 

[Clara Tea]

The first coming (Jesus two thousand years ago) was only a Jewish prophecy. Jesus taught others to be Jews, but didn't require them to have a bris, didn't require them to eat kosher foods, and didn't require them to wear pais (they could trim the corners of their heads so they didn't have to have long sideburns). They call these "new Jews" Christians. It was Jesus's way of bringing non-Jews to the ways of God.

Consider the immorality of the world when Jesus came. Rome had crucified and chopped up bodies on all of the roads leading to Rome. Rome had bullied the masses into agreeing with their bloodthirsty punishments, or they and all of their family members would be horribly put to death. So all had to say that it was good what the Romans did.

In the time of Jesus, many were trying to pretend (or maybe some thought that they were) that they were fulfilling the old Jewish prophecy of the coming of a messiah.

When Jesus was to be put to death, there was another, a thief, who was also asserting that he was the messiah, and his name was Jesus, son of God. Son, in Hebrew, is "ben." So his Hebrew name was Jesus Benabbas (Jesus, son of God). But Jesus was crucified that day, instead.

Jews were experts in their Hebrew language. Others might have been able to speak it, but it was difficult for them to do so. There was no need to learn a language of an oppressed people.

Jews were also experts in their own religious prophecies. Rabbis, especially, were experts in Jewish law.

Rabbis had heard of the exploits of Jesus, and they had assumed that he was a wizard, and therefore evil. They had asserted that Jesus had not fulfilled the exact requirements to be the messiah. Therefore, many Jews had refused to convert to Christianity.

https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/documents/ApocalypseVision.pdf

The US government's secret agencies (spies) feel that beliefs in the second coming could cause terrorism, so they wrote the information in the website above to understand things. That answers your question (please read it).

 

[Flankerl]

It is interesting that we don't hear much about Jewish Hindu's, Jewish Buddhists and even atheists... but when it comes to the Jewish Yeshua, there seems to be a problem.

Jewish Attitudes Toward Eastern Religions | My Jewish Learning

Why do you think that is?

lol are you for real?
It's pretty straightforward.
Neither of these Religions: Stole our holy book, try to convert us, claim to be the continuation of our Religion and their practitioners don't annoy us every year.

Furthermore a Jew who practices Hinduism or Buddhism isn't doing so within the framework of Jewish law.

 

[Fool]

In Christian doctrine, Jesus was the messiah, and he died and supposedly was resurrected, and according to Christian lore, Jesus will come back again, hence the Second Coming.

Do Judaism support the idea of the Second Coming too in their messianic prophecies?

Or is simply Second Coming merely Christian thing?

christ, or mashiach comes continuously. jesus isn't coming back. john 16:7

 

[gnostic]

Some Jews believe it and it is why they are called Messianic Jews. By and large, as far as I understand, mainline Jews don't believe in the second coming. For them it will be "the first coming" and for Christians it will be "the second coming" but it will be the same person -- at least that is my position.

Most "Messianic Jews" aren't Jews.

They are Christians Messianic Christians.

They are Christians? yes. Are they still Jewish? Yes.

The Messianic Jews are more Christians than they are Jews.

I highly doubt that many MJ churches in the US are Jews who have actual blood ties to the tribes of Israel, or to the two kingdoms.

From what little I know about Judaism, mainly come from the Hebrew Scriptures, which most people in the West referred to as Old Testament, and the Tanakh to the Jews.

So being Jews are more than just bloodline or ancestry, and more than circumcision and being observant on sabbath (although they play important parts of their religious observance) and more than just not eating pork.

The important part of being Jews is the Covenant and the Torah (law) the core of Judaism.

If Messianic Jews believed that Jesus have fulfilled fulfilled the Torah or that some parts of Torah can be do away or replaced by Christian doctrines, then those Messianic Jews are Christians, not Jews.

 

[Kenny]

The Messianic Jews are more Christians than they are Jews.

From what little I know about Judaism, mainly come from the Hebrew Scriptures, which most people in the West referred to as Old Testament, and the Tanakh to the Jews.

So being Jews are more than just bloodline or ancestry, and more than circumcision and being observant on sabbath (although they play important parts of their religious observance) and more than just not eating pork.

The important part of being Jews is the Covenant and the Torah (law) the core of Judaism.

If Messianic Jews believed that Jesus have fulfilled fulfilled the Torah or that some parts of Torah can be do away or replaced by Christian doctrines, then those Messianic Jews are Christians, not Jews.

Since Paul was a Pharisee and never said he ceased being a Jew and Peter whose mandate was to reach the Jews... I can't say "they are more Christians than Jews".

Since, as it was taught us by these Jewish believers, that the covenant message is in the Torah, I don't see your application.

Jesus simply fulfills the law (as believed by the Jewish people that have believed on Yeshua Ha'Mashiach) and so it is still Jewish in its entirety.

 

[dybmh]

Jesus simply fulfills the law (as believed by the Jewish people that have believed on Yeshua Ha'Mashiach) and so it is still Jewish in its entirety.

"... simply fulfills the law ..."

Can you show how John 14:13 fulfills Jewish law?

 

[gnostic]

Since Paul was a Pharisee and never said he ceased being a Jew and Peter whose mandate was to reach the Jews... I can't say "they are more Christians than Jews".

I am not talking about Paul or Peter. I am talking about the church that called itself Messianic Judaism.

But since you brought Christians of the 1st century up, then when the gospels tell people that the Christian faith can replace the teaching of the laws (Torah) then they are in essence, no longer Jews.

Second, Paul was saying that non-Jewish Christians - the Gentiles - the Egyptian Christians, Greek Christians, Roman Christians, etc - don’t have to become Jews to follow Christ, hence don’t have follow Jewish customs and rites, and that understandable.

But today’s the church of Messianic Judaism, shouldn’t refer themselves as Jews, if they follow the observance of Jewish teachings and customs.

As Jewish RF members have posted here, if MJs believe Christian central tenets take precedence over Judaism central tenets, then they shouldn’t be using Judaism as part of name of their church.

 

[gnostic]

Jesus simply fulfills the law (as believed by the Jewish people that have believed on Yeshua Ha'Mashiach) and so it is still Jewish in its entirety.

You mean “fulfilling” the prophecies, not the laws.

Laws aren’t fulfilled unless you are referring to laws being legislated/codified/ratified/enacted/enforced, or upheld in court trials.

The laws and prophecies are two different things.

The Torah (Law) and Nevi’im (Prophets) are two of the 3 divisions of the Hebrew Scriptures or Tanakh...or Old Testament Bible. The central tenets of Judaism is the Torah.

The laws were already codified by Moses, so saying that Jesus “fulfilled” the law seemed rather odd and misleading to me, because he has never pass or codified any law.

 

[Riders]

I am not talking about Paul or Peter. I am talking about the church that called itself Messianic Judaism.

But since you brought Christians of the 1st century up, then when the gospels tell people that the Christian faith can replace the teaching of the laws (Torah) then they are in essence, no longer Jews.

Second, Paul was saying that non-Jewish Christians - the Gentiles - the Egyptian Christians, Greek Christians, Roman Christians, etc - don’t have to become Jews to follow Christ, hence don’t have follow Jewish customs and rites, and that understandable.

But today’s the church of Messianic Judaism, shouldn’t refer themselves as Jews, if they follow the observance of Jewish teachings and customs.

As Jewish RF members have posted here, if MJs believe Christian central tenets take precedence over Judaism central tenets, then they shouldn’t be using Judaism as part of name of their church.

I dated a Jewish guy named Mitch. I told him my sister said her church eats I forget oh kosher, they are Kosher Jewish. I told him they eat no pork and most of them only eat fish chicken and turkey for meat. He laughed at that and said that´ś not Kosher.

It is a tiny part of it but eating Kosher means you only buy your meat where they cut up the meat a certain way in the butcther part of the grocery store, stores that do that are very expensive and you have to use Jewish spices which are also very expensive to be Kosher. He said even his own Jewish family did not eat Kosher because it is too expensive.

 

[rosends]

It is a tiny part of it but eating Kosher means you only buy your meat where they cut up the meat a certain way in the butcther part of the grocery store, stores that do that are very expensive and you have to use Jewish spices which are also very expensive to be Kosher. He said even his own Jewish family did not eat Kosher because it is too expensive.

To clarify:

Eating kosher, as it relates to meat products means that the specific animal qualifies as a kosher animal. It is slaughtered and inspected according to particular standards. The meat is then washed, salted (to draw out remaining blood) and washed again. Only certain parts of the animal can be prepared this way, and it must be prepared under the supervision of an accredited expert. There is no question of "spices" and while it is a bit more expensive than non-kosher meat, if someone uses money as an excuse not to keep kosher, that person is lying to himself and everyone else.

 

[Riders]

To clarify:

Eating kosher, as it relates to meat products means that the specific animal qualifies as a kosher animal. It is slaughtered and inspected according to particular standards. The meat is then washed, salted (to draw out remaining blood) and washed again. Only certain parts of the animal can be prepared this way, and it must be prepared under the supervision of an accredited expert. There is no question of "spices" and while it is a bit more expensive than non-kosher meat, if someone uses money as an excuse not to keep kosher, that person is lying to himself and everyone else.

Thank you for that explanation.WOW!

 

[Kenny]

"... simply fulfills the law ..."

Can you show how John 14:13 fulfills Jewish law?

I'm not sure how just pulling any scripture out and asking that question makes it relevant however wonderful that scripture is.

Matt 10: 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Romans 8:3 For God achieved what the law was unable to accomplish, because the law was limited by the weakness of human nature.Yet God sent us his Son in human form to identify with human weakness. Clothed with humanity, God’s Son gave his body to be the sin-offering so that God could once and for all condemn the guilt and power of sin. 4 So now every righteous requirement of the law can be fulfilled through the Anointed One living his life in us. And we are free to live, not according to our flesh, but by the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit! 5 Those who are motivated by the flesh only pursue what benefits themselves. But those who live by the impulses of the Holy Spirit are motivated to pursue spiritual realities.