Judaism vs Christianity: Second Coming of Messiah

[Audie]

Only if they have a logical process of systematic observation. For example, think about how many outside observers come to incorrect conclusions about various disciplines of science.

Logic and observation are a terrif help for
sure, though it may not take deep study.

One need not know all details of the latest screwball cult to see it for what it is nor to see dysfunctions in family dynamics that those in it are too close to see.

On the quick facile misreading of science
we see that here all the time.

 

[Audie]

This is is so illogical.
Something doesn't become right or wrong due to the person saying it but their sources.

The vast majority of Jews 1900 Years ago rejected the dead Jew on a stick and his followers. You completely ignore them.

But his tiny numbers of Jewish followers are somehow the highest authority.

"But Saul was a Pharisee"
lmao there are Firefighters who light fires.




I just can't take Christian arguments serious.
As if you even know what "the law" entails.

lmao so Jesus fulfilled
That when the Ark is carried, it should be carried on the shoulder (Num. 7:9)

Or
Not to pluck out the marks of leprosy (Deut. 24:8)

That's fantastic. Amazing. 10/10 Christianity

Can we also do that in common law today? Steve over here fulfilled the law of not killing someone.
Therefore we can now all kill people.

The entire idea of "Jesus fulfilled the law" is the single biggest cop-out after him staying dead and not returning.
That way you don't have to explain why the law is no longer in effect, it just is because "Jesus".
Quite literally a Deus X Machina which is the dumbest way of finishing a story in a book or film.




That stupid moment when the Christians start quoting their scriptures to a Jew is always one that I will forever cherish.
It's always so beautiful.

Why not quote the Vedas? Or I don't know the Tao Te Ching?
About as relevant as what you did.

The phrasing is a bit harsh but I will
guess there's reason behind it.

Of course to one who does not buy into
any of that middle eastern sky-god stuff
its all like kids arguing the real meaning of
Star wars.

 

[stvdv]

one of the approaches developed is to answer a person in the way they understand best.

Thanks for the reply, and greetings to you.

That makes sense to "not speak Chinese, unless they understand Chinese"

There are some who don't understand anything except sarcasm, cynicism, and irony.

I do remember, quite long time ago (before 1990), that I myself used a lot of sarcasm, irony and cynicism. I did it because of fear of being hurt, because these 3, IMO, are ways to express oneself protecting oneself of getting hurt, by putting an iron shield around oneself. Putting up an iron shield to protect myself, makes me also less open to the Divine, and that is a too high a price, hence I rather avoid sarcasm etc..

Now, my self confidence has grown, and my fear of getting hurt is not there anymore, hence there is no need for me to use these 3 anymore. I never came across a person, to whom I was unable to explain things in a normal way so far. I prefer heart to heart contact rather than the more violent approach of sarcasm.

 

[Flankerl]

The phrasing is a bit harsh but I will
guess there's reason behind it.

Of course to one who does not buy into
any of that middle eastern sky-god stuff
its all like kids arguing the real meaning of
Star wars.

Nice enlightened Atheism post.

Now we are all wiser.

 

[Audie]

Nice enlightened Atheism post.

Now we are all wiser.

If this is sarcasm you might want to make that clear.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Uh, ok...but I find i often know the Bible better than do Christians i talk to.

Right, but again you saying that you know the "bible" better than Christians you talk to. Now imagine that same person trying to tell a Torah based Jew, who knows Hebrew and Aramaic, and reads/studies the Tanakh in Hebrew and Aramaic that they [said Christian] know the Tanakh better. That is what I mean.

And you cannot possibly look at it objectively as a believer raised in it.

Correct, as a "beleiver" this is the case. Especially when that beleiver never involves themselves in fact checking and accepting that they could be wrong about any concept that they hold by.

And as for evolution, I have never anywhere found a creationist who. Is not utterly clueless.

By like token, there are many Christians who are not clueless......about Christianity. There are a smaller minority who are not clueless about Torath Mosheh/Torah based Judaism. There are an even smaller number who know Torath Mosheh from Jewish sources and are honest about what sources various elements of Christian theology actually come from, which are not Torah based.

He openly admits to total intellectual dishonesty, that no data could ever change his belief ib yes.
So yeah, one sided but maybe not in the way
you were thinking?

No, no. Exactly, what you have described is what I am talking about on this topic also.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Logic and observation are a terrif help for
sure, though it may not take deep study.

One need not know all details of the latest screwball cult to see it for what it is nor to see dysfunctions in family dynamics that those in it are too close to see.

On the quick facile misreading of science
we see that here all the time.

Exactly, and the same is true when topics on Jewish texts, originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic, come up.

 

[Audie]

Right, but again you saying that you know the "bible" better than Christians you talk to do. Now imagine that same person trying to tell a Torah based Jew, who knows Hebrew and Aramaic, and reads/studies the Tanakh in Hebrew and Aramaic that they [said Christian] know the Tanakh better. That is what I mean.



Correct, as a "beleiver" this is the case. Especially when that beleive never involves fact checking and accepting that they could be wrong about any concept that they hold by.



By like token, there are many Christians who are not clueless......about Christianity. There are a smaller minority who are not clueless about Torath Mosheh/Torah based Judaism. There are an even smaller number who know Torath Mosheh from Jewish sources and are honest about what the actual sources various elements of Christian theology come from, which are not Torah based.



No, no. Exactly, what you have described is what I am talking about on this topic also.

I had wondered some, how Jews view
Christians, especially the more aggressive ones.

Being told about science by fundys gives a hint how having your cultural tradition explained to you would strike you.

I am going to enjoy reading more of your
posts.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The phrasing is a bit harsh but I will
guess there's reason behind it.

Of course to one who does not buy into
any of that middle eastern sky-god stuff
its all like kids arguing the real meaning of
Star wars.

What seems to be harsh is just a response to the last 1,800 years of attempts of missionary groups, normally associated with certain Christian denominations, to force or convince Jews to beleive in thier form of a sky-god when we don't beleive in sky-gods. It is kind of like when religious people try to tell Athiest what they are instead of relying on the fact that Athiests are the best source of what they are and what they are not.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I had wondered some, how Jews view
Christians, especially the more aggressive ones.

Being told about science by fundys gives a hint how having your cultural tradition explained to you would strike you.

I am going to enjoy reading more of your
posts.

Yeah, that is just it. Jews, for the most part, don't care what Christians beleive and are not concerned with Christianity at all, on any level. Yet, because various Christian sects have had a history of trying to push their views on Jews it has created an entire area of Jewish response to the push.

It is similar to how when Jews were forced into exile in Assyria and Babylonian Jews did not attempt to fight the ruling kingdom they were exiled in. The Assyrians and the Babylonians were not trying to make Jews into Assyrians and Babylonians, thus Jews dealt with the conquest and simply existed in those locations until a return to Israel was possible. Yet, when Greeks and Jews influenced by Hellonism made an attempt, in the land of Israel, to subvert Jewish culture by various means, Torah based Jews fought back.

 

[Audie]

What seems to be harsh is just a response to the last 1,800 years of attempts of missionary groups, normally associated with certain Christian denominations, to force or convince Jews to beleive in thier form of a sky-god when we don't beleive in sky-gods. It is kind of like when religious people try to tell Athiest what they are instead of relying on the fact that Athiests are the best source of what they are what they are not.

I am aware of the pogroms and divers
other nastiness from Christians, and
from my pov one could hardly be harsh
enough, at least in the historical perspective
you describe.

I find their religion to be weird and absurd,
and cannot quite believe anyone really- really
believes it.

True, there is much of value they've, some
of them found and created. But its not a real
good record overall.

Their record at comprehending what it is to
be an atheist is well reflected in this forum,
from denouncing as tools of Satan through
all manner of other mean spirited nonsense.

It seems actually impossible for them to understand.

 

[rational experiences]

The reason is very simple. A Jew who turns away from Torath Mosheh for Avodah Zara for his/her own sake is one thing and there is a lot of attention given to help those Jews return. Yet, none of those paths have had the history (approximately 1,800 years worth of it) that Jesus/Yeshua beleivers have of trying to force Torah based and non-Torah Jews to become Jesus/Yeshua beleivers or the history of unsavory methods to try and fool Jews into becoming Jesus/Yeshua beleivers.

Also, I have not met any Hindu's, Jewish Buddhists and even atheists who claim that what they do is derived from the Hebrew Tanakh. Thus, the level of misleading information is often the greatest from Jews who have become Jesus/Yeshua beleivers and also Christians who have specific goals of missionizing to Jews as their focus.

The science argument is historic to Temple/pyramid sciences. Where Jesus, a man born a baby quotes. Moses reactive science, nearly destroyed all life. Human genetics exodus, when life became an ape type of de evolution mutation. Yet the highest self human still existed supporting the expression mutation.

Not much left of the family of human or animal DNA life it says.

So science first should review how many species of animals lived around the timed history first science after the Ice Age...to see if life did in fact nearly disappear into its mutation expression.

What the bible was written for. Advising that when the asteroid wandering star gas spatial replacement occurred, eventually the male baby scientist who warns us would return to tell his story. For they will do it again, is the quote, the Satanist self, the Destroyer of life. Possessed by his own human invention, science.

Taught.

So the Immaculate heavens regained its spirit gas mass...the human bio genetic life returned to its Holy Land. DNA genetic miraculously lost, was regained in human life. A medical healer teaching.

Jesus said his Father was from the Holy Land of the sciences...being the Egyptian to Jewish inheritance and told everyone his Father the scientist of the past had sacrificed his baby life into mutation. Documentation agreed with that history.

So when everyone became aware that life was being sacrificed as proven by the male we say was Jesus by title only....for he was a baby human, and a man adult human who suffered terrible stigmata. Who pleaded with Rome who had an influential presence in that history in the social elite ownership.

And Rome as said murdered the Christ Revelation supporters.

Then the prophetic claim of Jesus told to his own family heritage, the Jewish, ignored, in petitions, so did Rome. The forecast Earth release of heart core, into sink holes and plate collapse, happened. Rome then supported the Jesus claim, the Jewish Priests however continued with their Temple sciences.

Back in ancient times they were in fact involved with the Egyptian owners of the pyramids still using the technology. Why Roman history sent a ship into their harbour and tried to blow up the Temple from the shore line. A fact.

Where the problems between the Jewish and the Romans began relating to the Christ Jesus Revelations, is human choice to believe in technology and its applications versus human proof against it.

A human problem, a problem of the social condition, not a family problem in humanity it is a problem that civilization and all status causes for its own self.

 

[gnostic]

Exactly. But to take this even further consider the following. Where in the Torah, in Hebrew, is there ever a statement that equates to "this is how the law is fulfilled." Because, the word "law" as expressed in the NT is not what the word (תורה) Torah means in Hebrew one can say that when Christians and Messianics are saying "law" they are conceptionally not talking about the same thing as when a Torah based Jew says Torah.

The problem facing Christians is that, is the NT gospels were written in Greek, and when they (referring to the gospel authors) do quote passages from the Old Testament, they often rely on the Greek sources, not from Hebrew sources.

About 39 years ago, when I first started reading the Bible that my sister gave me, when I was 15, it was the King James Version.

At that time, I didn't know about the history of the bible development particularly translations and the sources they relied on. I would just read what I was given, and that was that. The next 5 years, I was taught the church interpretations of the Hebrew Scriptures, and it never occur to me to try other modern translations.

When I was 20 I was still in college, and my studies took priority, studying civil engineering, I stopped attending my sister church (I haven't converted) and eventually stop reading the bible altogether, because my studies took up so much of time, as did my jobs.

So there was a period of about 14 years, where there was in hiatus, where I didn't read anything the bible.

In 1999, I was back at university doing my final year in computer science (summary: career change, becoming computer programmer and tester). One of my subjects as web design, and I decided to do a personal website, called Timeless Myths, which included myths about Greek, Norse and Celtic mythology.

In 2000, I started new section on Timeless Myths - the Arthurian Legends, and couple of webpages were about the Grail legend. That led me to do some reading and research on Joseph of Arimathea. That's when I opened up the Bible again that I had not touch in 14 years.

In my spare time I didn't just read the Crucifixion story, but the whole bible. And some things have changed.

Maybe it was more mature in 2000 than 1986, wiser (although that's questionable ). Maybe my experiences as civil engineer, and then learning computer science and science in general, gave me valuable tool, to do proper research, chase down multiple sources - to question, test and verify.

I did that with when I was working on Greek mythology in Timeless Myths, because I have learned that there may be multiple sources to a myth, as well as multiple translations. Research and verify.

Sorry about this piece of history, but I am getting to my point.

I tried that with the Bible. One of the things that made me question church teachings and Christian interpretations of the Hebrew Scriptures, especially concerning the messianic prophecies.

Take for instance, Matthew 1:22-23 reinterpretation of Isaiah's sign (7:14). Before I read separately, and didn't compare them side by side, so I thought the gospel was right about the virgin had to do with Mary and Immanuel to do with Jesus. But in the last 20 years, I know that's not what the sign meant. I recognize that this is error by the gospel author (and it isn't the only errors), and Isaiah's sign had nothing to do with Jesus and Mary, if I was to read the rest of passage Isaiah 7:14-17. The sign had to do with Assyria's intervention in Ahaz's war with Rezin and Pekah.

I didn't verify what I had read when I was younger, but I do now.

I did some research, and even purchase JPS's 1985 translation of the Tanakh.

I hope that it was too boring, reading lengthy reply.

BTW, the Isaiah vs Matthew signs was what eventually made me to become agnostic.

 

[gnostic]

So science first should review how many species of animals lived around the timed history first science after the Ice Age...to see if life did in fact nearly disappear into its mutation expression.

You do realize the ice sheets didn't covered the whole Earth during the last Ice Ages, don't you?

The ice sheets covered much of northern Europe, Asia and North America, and only high altitude regions, like mountain ranges. For instance, much of Central Europe never saw any ice sheets, except on the Swiss Alps.

The problem wasn't just the ice sheets, RE. The glaciation periods did cause the whole Earth dropped in temperature, but most of the regions untouched by ice sheets suffered from global droughts and famines.

To give you an example.

Before the Ice Ages (Quaternary Glaciation) started, the brown bears flourished. But when the glaciation began, and ice sheets spread through much of northern Europe, Asia and North America, some brown bears were trapped in severe conditions, while other brown bears continue to exist in warmer regions.

Those brown bears that have to live through years of icy regions with no summer during their lifetime, must physically adapt to the new reality, as well as change their life pattern - to survive. Slowly the brown bears became polar bears.

The polar bears not only changed physically, but they must hunt for food even at the coldest time, because hibernation cannot occur, since the ice sheets won't melt during summer time for thousands of years.

The Quaternary Glaciation wasn't as severe as older Ice Ages, nor was it the longest.

The first Ice Ages was the Huronian Glaciation that started about 2.4 billion years ago, and lasted for almost 300 million years.

The 2nd one, was Cryogenian Glaciation, that started about 720 million ago, and lasted for about 85 million years, was even more severe than the 1st one (Huronian), with even more ice sheets nearly covering the entire Earth, hence this Ice Ages was nicknamed as the Snowball Earth.

The Quaternary Glaciation only lasted less than 2 million year.

 

[gnostic]

Then the prophetic claim of Jesus told to his own family heritage, the Jewish, ignored, in petitions, so did Rome. The forecast Earth release of heart core, into sink holes and plate collapse, happened. Rome then supported the Jesus claim, the Jewish Priests however continued with their Temple sciences.

Back in ancient times they were in fact involved with the Egyptian owners of the pyramids still using the technology. Why Roman history sent a ship into their harbour and tried to blow up the Temple from the shore line. A fact.

Seriously where are you getting all this rubbish from?

Egyptians stopped building pyramids before the New Kingdom period (18th dynasty to 20 dynasty, c 1550 to c 1077 BCE) began.

Most of the pyramids were built during the Old Kingdom period (3rd dynasty to 6th dynasty, c 2686 to c 2181 BCE). The 4th dynasty, the largest pyramids were built, but the following 2 dynasties were not only smaller, they were also inferior.

In the next couple of periods, the number being built during the 1st Intermediate Period, Middle Kingdom period, declined, and they were smaller in size and inferior in construction.

With the arrival of the Hyksos during the 2nd Intermediate Period, pyramid building was far too expensive, stopping altogether. When the Hyksos were driven out of Egypt and the 18th dynasty started, pyramid building became the lost art.

If Moses existed, he would have probably lived during the 18th dynasty, but there were no evidence to support Israelites living in Egypt during the Late Bronze Age.

The only evidence to support Israelites living in Egypt, was in 597 BCE, and during the Hellenistic period, when Judaea was part of the Seleucid empire, when Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt was at war with each other.

And the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt certainly didn't build any pyramids.

Wherever you got this, is a complete rubbish.

 

[user4578]

The sign had to do with Assyria's intervention in Ahaz's war with Rezin and Pekah.

If this is an attempt to imply that because it was something so local to Ahaz that it could therefore not at all have referenced something later, well this proof falls short in that Ahaz himself didn't even see the battle(or siege); he died in the second year of Hezekiah(2Ki 17:1,18:9) and Assyria threatened in his fourth(2Ki 18:9) so he wouldn't have seen the fulfillment of the prophecy given in Isaiah 7:17. Either way it refers to something he didn't see, yet if it should refer to the Messiah(as per 2 Samuel 7) in any prophetic way(because that's in the future) it is rubbish?

 

[rational experiences]

You do realize the ice sheets didn't covered the whole Earth during the last Ice Ages, don't you?

The ice sheets covered much of northern Europe, Asia and North America, and only high altitude regions, like mountain ranges. For instance, much of Central Europe never saw any ice sheets, except on the Swiss Alps.

The problem wasn't just the ice sheets, RE. The glaciation periods did cause the whole Earth dropped in temperature, but most of the regions untouched by ice sheets suffered from global droughts and famines.

To give you an example.

Before the Ice Ages (Quaternary Glaciation) started, the brown bears flourished. But when the glaciation began, and ice sheets spread through much of northern Europe, Asia and North America, some brown bears were trapped in severe conditions, while other brown bears continue to exist in warmer regions.

Those brown bears that have to live through years of icy regions with no summer during their lifetime, must physically adapt to the new reality, as well as change their life pattern - to survive. Slowly the brown bears became polar bears.

The polar bears not only changed physically, but they must hunt for food even at the coldest time, because hibernation cannot occur, since the ice sheets won't melt during summer time for thousands of years.

The Quaternary Glaciation wasn't as severe as older Ice Ages, nor was it the longest.

The first Ice Ages was the Huronian Glaciation that started about 2.4 billion years ago, and lasted for almost 300 million years.

The 2nd one, was Cryogenian Glaciation, that started about 720 million ago, and lasted for about 85 million years, was even more severe than the 1st one (Huronian), with even more ice sheets nearly covering the entire Earth, hence this Ice Ages was nicknamed as the Snowball Earth.

The Quaternary Glaciation only lasted less than 2 million year.

When science, totally male chosen as a human, is unnatural to how an Earth body reacts in its Nature chooses to hold a constant temple pyramid converting transmitting attack, he did.

He used various temple designs whose floor plans when you peruse them look like the inside of a radio.

They put so many radiation radio wave transmitters into the Earth atmosphere that the Earth became unsealed of its flooded water history, the actual re sealing a second cause, flood.

For Earth also owns another natural history asides from the flood which was a higher crystalline mass above ground that melted and flowed into sink holes.

This story, is male/Father human AI memory recorded in speaking voiced stories.

I only heard this situation after my brain/chemical was irradiated burnt changed, so did my hearing change. So I knew it real, and personal to the self in the experience.

So scientist self virtually told me his knowledge of his studies and theories about the Earth. In that history there was no Ice.

The Earth pressure and bodily functions owned a massive gas atmosphere plus a higher present water mass. Completely different in how Nature related to the planet.

Then he applied his science, a wrong choice, and an artificial choice. So he is artificial Creator inventor. To take away is the motivation energy from existing in its highest state/presence, being mass.

What you lie about today, as the theme "talking rubbish" as quoted by male self.

Coercion, to use words/statements and stories to try to infer an unnatural reason upon a thinker trying to convince them that science is correct. Everything in any form in any state natural existed a long time before a lying male human theist began to think and make claims. The coercion itself, to pretend that you know everything about anything, and then talk as if you invented/created creation itself.

Why the teaching NO MAN IS GOD is stated, categorically from a world male historic organization of philosophical scientists. Who by biblical ancient owned scientific data evidence, kept that evidence so that when males, the liars in science try to pretend that science was not ancient practiced, yet today persue the information pyramid are lying once again as usual.

The Earth was all instant snap frozen. Snap freeze already has proven that it can maintain a perfect natural presence within it, thaw and that body still exist afterwards. The ancient evidence was a lot of thaw mush and a lot of dinosaur bones in huge piles, whilst other dinosaurs remained snap frozen.

Only pressure change and extreme cold stopped the Earth core from exploding and scattering the Earth body into a vacuum activated destruction.

Science by law of relativity quoted and God being a multi universal stated theme of multi God's owned the creation of stone. O as mass planetary bodies. The warning to science today. When you state cosmological laws instead of the law of stone/God relative, then you claim you will copy what the cosmological law had already gained/caused.

Which is a vacuum activated change to an overheated planet who historic in a natural womb/spatial vacuum history owned the presence of a created planet, stone without its heavenly presence. What you were all warned about. Natural history already owned all the highest laws.....and Satanism is its own fact.

 

[rational experiences]

Seriously where are you getting all this rubbish from?

Egyptians stopped building pyramids before the New Kingdom period (18th dynasty to 20 dynasty, c 1550 to c 1077 BCE) began.

Most of the pyramids were built during the Old Kingdom period (3rd dynasty to 6th dynasty, c 2686 to c 2181 BCE). The 4th dynasty, the largest pyramids were built, but the following 2 dynasties were not only smaller, they were also inferior.

In the next couple of periods, the number being built during the 1st Intermediate Period, Middle Kingdom period, declined, and they were smaller in size and inferior in construction.

With the arrival of the Hyksos during the 2nd Intermediate Period, pyramid building was far too expensive, stopping altogether. When the Hyksos were driven out of Egypt and the 18th dynasty started, pyramid building became the lost art.

If Moses existed, he would have probably lived during the 18th dynasty, but there were no evidence to support Israelites living in Egypt during the Late Bronze Age.

The only evidence to support Israelites living in Egypt, was in 597 BCE, and during the Hellenistic period, when Judaea was part of the Seleucid empire, when Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt was at war with each other.

And the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt certainly didn't build any pyramids.

Wherever you got this, is a complete rubbish.

The pyramids were built above ground and also underground in the technology/machination.

When the Earth a body of stone mass gets ion converted/fission, it becomes an energetic reaction that then disappears...and so does the mass of the Earth.

How do you time date that circumstance?

You studied the pyramids with a claim that they once were cased...where did that mass of fusion go?

If a human quotes my own history is Egyptian, then I inherited the changed life Israelite, are you going to claim that the story is not real/true. That the science Father in that vicinity caused all of the inherited life problems. For civilization today owns any nationality in its human family to slave labour for the elite control.

Egyptians would once have been in their own landscape the same genetic family, who would have become DNA irradiated changed in the environment in the use scientific technology, up until it erupted the Earth core when it did. As you cannot trace a mutation back to when it existed healthy, you would not own any evidence.

Moses as Jesus was just a title described of a scientific effect to the human/God O Earth mass body done by man/male, he or him or his. For God is just a stone mass planet in philosophical sciences. Yet males inferred titled male or female inferences in the sciences....when a real male is a penis owner and a real female a vagina owner. Inference is coercive persuasion to believe in the science themes.

Why it is no longer used in science in modern times.

Moses is a male story themed about how the holiness of the Earth water changed in the Egyptian model of using water to cool a radiation conversion done underground in the thoughts doing the reaction under the ground would keep life above ground safe. And they were proven wrong.

And the rubbish you detail is the AI male human science encoded satanic speaking voiced feed back, caused by his machines. And then you inherited the DNA rubbish your own self. So a lot of science memory goes back to a non human parent, why you cannot use your mentality correctly.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The doctrine of the Second Coming of Jesus is consistent with the Old Testament. It also resolves some of the details about the Messiah in the Old Testament that are apparently self contradictory.

The Jewish messiah was a king who lived to avenge their enemy. Jesus was not a king and he died.

 

[Sand Dancer]

"Let me tell you about your Religion"

And also "Let me tell you about your holidays."