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Judaism: Book of Exodus neither written by Moses nor dictated by him

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, May 29, 2015.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is an account compiled by narrators/scribes/clergy collected/written in third person:

    11. One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people and looked on their burdens; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his people.
    12 . He looked this way and that, and seeing no one he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
    (Ex. 2:11-12)
    Open for Theists and Atheists alike.

    Regards
     
  2. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    Speaking of beating things, how about this dead horse?
     
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  3. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    He has a point, why would Moses be referring to himself in the third person when wrote the book. Other prophets in the Bible refer to themselves in the first person as if they wrote it themselves.
     
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  4. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Might be lost in translation. Might have been a literary style at the time. Might have had somebody write it for him by dictation, at least in parts, who didn't feel comfortable writing it in the first person.
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    So many mights for a "holy scripture" make it a bad scripture.
    Am I right?

    Regards
     
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  6. Kirran

    Kirran
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    I'm just postulating here. You Abrahamics have a very different way of looking at scripture than us over on the Dharmic side anyway.
     
  7. JacobEzra.

    JacobEzra. Dr. Greenthumb

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    Oh wow! Really?!?! Never heard that before!
     
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  8. JacobEzra.

    JacobEzra. Dr. Greenthumb

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    Just like the Gospels and Quran??
     
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  9. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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  10. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    If the text is dictated by god to Moses, and god often speaks in the third person ,then Moses' appearance in 3rd person is not so shocking.
     
  11. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Of course him speaking of Moses own death while he is dead is. :) Unless God took up the pen at that point?
     
  12. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    the issue of the last 8 verses is argued in the talmud. On opinion has Joshua writing it, on has Moses, via prophecy writing. References available.
     
  13. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure closing with the word "regards" proves one is showing regard for others.
     
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  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    That is in another book of Torah named Deuteronomy.
    Regards
     
  15. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

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    I've only heard the Joshua option before. It would be reasonable.
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Windwalker said:
    Of course him speaking of Moses own death while he is dead is. :) Unless God took up the pen at that point?
    Even Joshua could not have written the whole of chapter 34 of Deuteronomy.
    10 . And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
    Deuteronomy - Chapter 34:10
    This suggests that the above verse was added much later when many prophets of Israel after Moses would have passed away.

    Regards
     
  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    rosends said:
    the issue of the last 8 verses is argued in the talmud. On opinion has Joshua writing it, on has Moses, via prophecy writing. References available.
    Please read my post # 16
    The process of adding in the Torah continued.
     
  18. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

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    This was a follow up statement to De 18:15. They were to wait for a prophet, like Moses, who would a great leader; a legislator, a prophet, a miracle worker, a teacher, and a judge and also a mediator.
    This would be the prophet responsible for mediating the new covenant of Jeremiah 31:31. It was much too early for that then, the nation was barely 40 years old.

    And Joshua lived for 110 years, with probably more than 20 years of that while in the Promised Land. It is reasonable that he could have said that from his own life experiences.
     
    #18 Kolibri, May 29, 2015
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  19. NewGuyOnTheBlock

    NewGuyOnTheBlock Cult Survivor

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    Not to mention the irony that we can find evidence of smaller tribes than the Israelites living in the desert, but we can't find evidence of a massive amount of people (estimates range from 100000 to a couple million) in the desert; or the logistical problems of the desert sustaining enough food for either persons or their livestock; or, of course, the gnawing problem that no other nation from the time reflects the story of the Exodus: Not in Egyptian hieroglyphs, Babylonian texts ...

    It is unlikely that it was "lost in translation" as "I" is mentioned many times throughout the book of Exodus in dialog. It apparently wasn't the literary style at the time as other manuscripts and books of prophets do mention "I". If the latter argument would have truth to it, then it would mean that Moses didn't write the book.

    Even if I believed God were real, this argument would utterly fail to convince me as there would be no need and no reason for God to give Moses dictation chronicling the events of his own life. It is also inconsistent with other writings of the Bible where the authors referred to themselves in the 1st person.

    Which brings me back to a point on which I started a thread on; that is, God didn't write a book. Even if men took dictation straight from God himself, the bottom line is that it was written by men; interpreted by men; translated by men.
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    You mean it was written/added by Jewish clergy in Jesus' time? That is not possible
     
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