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Featured John 14:28

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    So Jesus amounts to nothing?

    An interesting view.

    I'd have thought an immaterial body, being necessarily imaginary, was much more like amounting to nothing.
     
  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I did not say that. It was Jesus the Christ that offered the quoted passages.

    The body of Jesus is buried, most likely under the wall of Jerusalem, it will not return, which in turn tells you what happens to all flesh. Jesus was Christ, more than flesh more than Human Spirit.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    These are all great Scriptures, my brother...but I’m afraid your words are hitting a brick wall.
     
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  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Only if you spin it.
     
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  5. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    That seems to be the case.

    Since Jesus' numerous denials that he's God are clearly recorded in the gospels, and since Jesus never once claimed to be God, it seems the wall is constructed from dogma outside of the NT, in particular the Trinity doctrine developed in the 4th century, hundreds of years after the date of death attributed to Jesus.

    Given that the churches admit the Trinity doctrine makes no sense, it follows that the wall is built of nonsense. But its defenders aren't interested in history, or the actual words of the NT. The dogma is in place and it shall not, shall not, shall not be changed, no matter what reason says.

    I guess that's the nature of faith, though I confess I don't understand why faith must be unquestioning.
     
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  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    That all because Jesus is God the Father,
    Because you can't accept it, doesn't change the fact, Jesus is God the Father.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Jesus wasn't all flesh and blood, inside the body of Jesus is God the Father.

    God the Father made himself a body and in case himself inside of the body of Jesus.
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    God the Father is the Father of Jesus in the flesh.
    But Jesus as God is greater than Jesus of flesh and blood.
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    There's no spin to it, just simple math,
    As 2+2=4
     
  10. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    But since by the Trinity doctrine the Father, Jesus and the Ghost are each in their own right 100% of God, and since God is the father of Jesus, how can it be argued that Jesus and the Ghost are not just as much the father of Jesus as the Father is?
     
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Ghost and God the Father and Jesus are all one and the same The Almighty God.

    There's no separation
     
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    There is just such separation in the Trinity doctrine, which declares that Father, Jesus and Ghost are three distinct persons and each is 100% of God.

    It leads to the kinds of paradoxes and reductio ad absurdum cases which have compelled even the churches to acknowledge that the doctrine makes no sense. (They call it 'a mystery in the strict sense', saying that it can't be discovered by reason but only by revelation, and once revealed can't be cogently demonstrated by reason, but that translates as 'a nonsense'.)
     
  13. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    The way to look at this is consider the man called Joe. Joe is a father to his children, a husband to his wife and a son to his parents. Here was have three persona in one person. He is a firm but a fair leader around his children. He is loving and affectionate to his wife. He is respectful of his parents. He is one person, but based on the circumstances, one of his three adaptation is more predominate.

    This is implicit of three subroutines in the unconscious mind with all grounded on the inner self; God. The trinity symbolizes a tri-core processor, similar to what we see in computers. Some tasks only require one core while other two or three cores. The CPU is one thing.

    If Joe is with his children he uses one core. If he is with his wife and children he will use two cores, which then creates an output that is the blend of the two. If he is with is wife, children and parents, like during the Holidays, all three cores operate and another blend appears. The ancients saw a subtle distinction in the God output and notice three processor cores.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Heck those churches makes no sense anyway.
    It's not a mystery, just plain and simple.

    God the Father made himself a body and incased himself inside of the body of Jesus.
    There you have Jesus the Almighty God and the Holy Ghost inside of the body of Jesus. As 3 in one body.
     
  15. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I get that ─ one central personality in three roles. You can tell it's not the Trinity doctrine because it makes sense.

    In the Trinity doctrine we have no single Joe, but Joe, Beau and Mo, three distinct persons, and each is 100% of God. That makes 300% = 3 gods, but the doctrine insists on only one, simultaneously with the threeness ─ 1+1+1=3 except here, where 1+1+1=1.
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    So according to you, - Emphasis on according to you - Jesus is a shell that God made to dwell in.
    Hence God let the shell be killed, left laughing. So nobody died, but just the shell. Then when God raised up the shell and seated it at his right hand, what then dwelt in the shell?

    According to the Bible, Jesus is not a shell in which God dwells. He is the only begotten son, of the father.
    The father sent him to earth for a purpose, and he came willingly. He was a messenger, both in the heavens, and on the earth.
    Are you denying these facts?

    Certainly, from what you are saying, not only do you seem to be denying them, but you are saying things found nowhere in the scriptures.


    The prophecy in Isaiah is about whom? Is it not a prophecy about the son of God? So why are you applying the prophecy to God?
    Jesus Christ is Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. So what are you saying, he can't be?
    He is the mighty God. He has become the everlasting father of those redeemed by his blood. He is the prince of peace that will bring all things back to God, his father, after which... you ready for this?

    (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) 24 ...he [Christ] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

    Which book are you basing you doctrines on.
    The Bible says one thing. You say another.
    What did Jesus say?
    Concerning his father, he quotes Isaiah's words...
    (Matthew 15:6-11) 6 So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. 7You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ 10With that he called the crowd near and said to them: “Listen and get the sense of it: 11It is not what enters into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but it is what comes out of his mouth that defiles him.

    Do you and your partners get the sense of those words? Do you realize how serious it is to make the word of God invalid in the eyes of onlookers?
    By teaching false doctrines, you stumble onlookers, preventing people from entering the Kingdom of God. Under normal circumstances, they may want to enter, but the confusing doctrines hinder them.
    Not only them, but those who are mislead by such teachings. Matthew 23:15

    This is no joke guys. Some people really think God is mock. Seriously?
    [​IMG]
     
    #116 nPeace, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, thanks my brother. If it were my head I was banging against this wall, I would quit. However, these words are more than what they seem to be. The words may seem like they are deflecting, but take a closer look. :D

    No brick wall can stand up to a 6 ton ball of steel. Something will give, and it's not the steel. This wall is going down, brother.
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    That's all because? What do you mean? What's all because?
    You haven't addressed the post. All you did was ignore it, and repeat words that you and some pastor speak - words not found or supported in scripture.

    You see, facts don't become such, based on how often one repeats something that's not true.
    Can you show anything to support claims you are making?
    Then they are just claims - not facts.

    Facts are things like this, things you can actually show, verify, and confirm. So please, rather than repeat what the facts show are lies, show something that says otherwise... if you can.
    You can't, can you?
     
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  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    We also must realize the difference between reasonable and unreasonable, because there are religious views that are reasonable - based on good reason and evidence, and religious views that are unreasonable - based on a position held to, despite all reason and evidence against it.
    Some call that irrational faith.

    This is perhaps the kind of faith some say must be unquestioned.
    However, Biblical faith can be questioned,
    1 Peter 3:15
    But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.

    ...but it depends on what you mean by question.
    The Bible speaks of persons being persuaded, so obviously one who is persuaded of something, should be able to give a reasonable explanation when questioned. 2 Timothy 3:14, 15
     
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  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Nice post!
    Faith is supposed to be based on knowledge, but some people have been given false knowledge. Like with Hitler (an extreme example, I know): how many Germans in the ‘30s thought he was the greatest? Grief, were they wrong!!

    Question everything! That’s good!
    Really, isn’t that what we do here? Question people’s beliefs? It’s a hodgepodge, that’s for sure!
     
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