1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured John 14:28

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Of course, and so...?

    Jesus never said God needed a body. Where did you read that, a pastors book?

    No scripture says that the Immortal God made Himself a mortal body to live in and ultimately to die in. What book are you reading?
    It would be good if you quoted the Bible instead.

    Jesus has a God and Father in the flesh and in the spirit.
    David did sing Psalm 139:14. I fail to see how that is relevant.

    Jesus was always subject to and subordinate to God, both in heaven and on earth.

    God is the one who subjected all things under Christ's feet. The scripture plainly says that God subjected everything except himself.
    Why are these scriptures not simple to understand, and why don't they mean what they say?

    What are you talking about? I understand Michael to be chief angel, not a human being.

    What are you talking about? This is more confusing that what you were saying previously. So unless you can explain what you are saying, it makes absolutely no sense.

    The scriptures are clear when they say,
    (John 1:14) . . .So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father. . .
    (John 3:16) . . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

    Jesus himself said he came from above - a different realm, and that he is God's son. No where did he ever say he is God the Father.
    The Jewish people even understood this.
    John 3:1, 2
    1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This one came to him in the night and said to him: “Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.”

    Why one would not understand this is obvious, as I mentioned previously.

    Where did you read that? Not in scripture obviously.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

    That's what I read, and I am sure everyone else reads that.
    There is no need for God to be called or named everlasting Father. Besides he is already almighty, and can never be a prince, much more called one.
    Your interpretation of it is out of harmony with the context, as well as all scripture. It throws everything out of array.

    God obviously is real, and so are his sons - including his anointed king - the firstborn of all God's creation - Collossians 1:13-15.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Yes, Jesus Christ the son did become a Father, when he became the last Adam, taking the place of the first Adam.
    I like how you reasoned on such a simple truth.

    Adam would have been the everlasting father, if he had not disobeyed. By Christ's death, persons can now have everlasting life, so we can understand how Jesus receives that name, just as he receives the name Prince of Peace, as he is the appointed heir to bring peace to all.
    The angels declared this, before the child was born, before the son was given.
    Luke 2:14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and on earth peace among men of goodwill.”

    These truth bypass "Christians", because they are part of Babylon the Great, which will soon meet its end, at the paws of the Wild Beast. Revelation 17:15-18

    There is still time for persons to escape, but one must love truth.
    Revelation 18:4, 5
    4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,761
    Ratings:
    +3,094
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    One also must consider these verses;

    John 14:16"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

    Revelation 2:17 & Revelation 3:12

    "The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name."

    So the Comforter, the Father, will have a new name.

    Same Christ Spirit, new Name, new Station, new Message, to guide unto all Truth.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Jehovah is the God of comfort.
    Just as God sent the son, he also sent the comforter - the holy spirit.

    John 14:15-17
    15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

    Matthew 10:19, 20
    19 However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; 20 for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you.

    John 16:7, 13
    7 Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you.
    13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.

    Acts 2:32, 33
    32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

    1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God, so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.

    God does the sending. We receive what is from God. His son is a gift from the father. Holy spirit is a gift from the father.
    We thank the father for his gifts, which lead to everlasting life.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,761
    Ratings:
    +3,094
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Agreed.

    What you may not yet read, is that Baha'u'llah has also come in the station of Jehovah. This reference in the Tanakh is to the Greatest Name, the 'Glory of God'.

    Big subject of course. A whole new way to look at Biblical scriptures.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +522
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus is God the Father.

    Isaiah 7:14--"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"

    Matthew 1:23--"3 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us"

    Isaiah 9:6--" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"

    Therefore Jesus is God the Father.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Messages:
    127
    Ratings:
    +17
    Religion:
    Christian
    Okay, I can see you are a bit upset.
    You think Jesus is part of the trinity? No problem. I don't think God is going to ask us on judgment day whether or not we believe He is part of the trinity, and if we don't tick the right box then down to hell we go.

    He does, however, say that unless we do the Will of His Father, then we won't enter. (Matthew 7:21-24) So if we are going to have unity, then it should be something that actually matters for eternity, not this trivial debate over the nature of God.

    In peace
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +522
    Religion:
    Christian
    Well first of all, We stand before Christ Jesus first on Judgement day. And then after the thousand years have expired and then we stand before God at the Great White Throne judgement.
     
  9. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,955
    Ratings:
    +721
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    And so He is the Everlasting Father: God.
    Hebrews 10:5 "a body hast thou prepared me" This body would be the sacrifice. As God said "sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not" (That means cows, sheep, goats etc.) were not desired by God. God wanted the sacrifice of Jesus' body.
    Hebrews 10:5 ...
    The relevance is that we are speaking of how Jesus is bodily created or born in the womb of Mary.
    Alright?
    They do mean what they say. But it's not my fault if you don't understand them because you listen to the Watchtower society.
    You JWs believe Michael is Jesus.
    How you JWs believe Michael is Jesus.
    He did say He was God the Father manifest. As in John 14:9.
    Yes there is a need for God to be called what He is: the only everlasting Father. See 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6

    God is the only eternal Father and was manifest in His only begotten Son: Jesus.
    Jesus was born of the virgin in Luke 1:35 and born from the dead(resurrected) in Acts 13:33.

    Jesus is firstborn of creation. God had sons such as Adam and the angels; yet they are not born; but created as sons.
     
    #89 74x12, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Note.
    God with us; With us is God, does not translate Jesus is God the Father.
    Many times God said, "I am with you."
    His servants said, "God is with us."
    In what way is God with us?

    In Isaiah 8:10 for example, the very same expression is used.
    Isaiah 8:9-11
    9 Cause harm, you peoples, but you will be shattered to pieces. Listen, all you from distant parts of the earth! Prepare for battle, but you will be shattered to pieces! Prepare for battle, but you will be shattered to pieces! 10Devise a plan, but it will be thwarted! Say what you like, but it will not succeed, For God is with us! 11 With his strong hand on me, this is what Jehovah said to me to warn me away from following the course of this people:

    Isaiah 8:10 Interlinear: Take counsel, and it is broken, Speak a word, and it doth not stand, Because of Emmanu-El!'
    עִמָּ֖נוּ ‘im·mā·nū with us
    אֵֽל׃ ’êl. God [is]

    Jesus being given a name which means, "With us is God" does not make him God.
    God is with us by means of his representative.

    Elihu means 'God Is He'.
    With your logic Elihu is God. Elihu: He is (my) God

    No. We don't use that kind of faulty logic. A name with meaning, does not make the person something other than what they are.
    The same is the case with Isaiah 9:6.
    The prophet Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would take on the role of everlasting father - he would be called by that name.
    The Messiah takes on the role of everlasting father, as he became the last Adam - replacing the first.

    There is no magic bullet here for Trinitarians, or their alternates.
    Ignoring millions of scriptures that clearly says Jesus is the son of God, not God the father, doesn't help.
    Luke 1:30-33
    30 So the angel said to her: “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.

    Luke 1:35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son.

    Ignoring the truth from scripture only hurts proponents of false doctrines.
    . . .these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Jesus' body. Great!

    This is a lie, of course. Jesus never said such a thing.
    John 14 New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus the Way to the Father
    5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
    6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know [Some manuscripts If you really knew me, you would know] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
    8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
    9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

    Please, please read and understand.

    There is no need for God the father to be called Everlasting Father, Mighty God, Prince of Peace.
    In fact these titles are given to the son, as prophesied by God's prophet.
    Please read the text. The prophecy concerns the Messiah, and the role he is about to play.
    God is almighty, and he is no prince.

    Please stick to the context.... and scripture.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. SonOfElElyon

    SonOfElElyon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Ratings:
    +18
    Religion:
    Antediluvian
    Not quite, my spirit is my spirit until John baptised me and my fathers spirit descended into me. That is why I say he who is in me is greater than me, That is why John baptising me was a must, to fulfill all rightenousness.

    That is why my father said AT THAT MOMENT, "that I was his son and he was WELL pleased"? WHY?

    Because I'd proven an indestructable life.

    And when Jesus was baptized,immediately he went up from the water, and behold, othe heavens were opened to him,1and he psaw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 andbehold, qa voice from heaven said, r“This is my beloved Son,2 with whom I am wellpleased.”

    I'm born the son, at the time this happens i become the holy spirit as it enters me and the consiousness of my father is what that spirit is.

    The father, the son and the holy spirit I become.​
     
  13. SonOfElElyon

    SonOfElElyon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Ratings:
    +18
    Religion:
    Antediluvian
    The only time I'm mentioned in the "same breath" with my father in the bible is in two places.

    When the spirits say "What do you want with us Jesus, son of EL ELYON"

    And when it talks about Jesus being the priest of "THE MOST HIGH GOD".

    It makes SURE to reiterate that my father's name is El Elyon... none other.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +522
    Religion:
    Christian
    In the book of Matthew 1:23, here we find the name given to Christ Jesus
    ( Emmanuel ) being interpreted is, God with us.
    "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" Matthew 1:23.

    Christ Jesus was given the name Emmanuel for a special purpose, meaning God being in the body of Jesus Christ God is among us down here on earth in the body of Christ Jesus.

    And then in the book of Isaiah 9:6- here we find many names given to Christ Jesus,
    (Wonderful) ( Counsellor) ( The Mighty God)
    ( The everlasting Father) ( The Prince of
    Peace )
    When a name is given representing who they are, in this case all these names were given to Christ representing who Christ Jesus is.

    "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
    Isaiah 9:6.

    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"
    Isaiah 7:14.

    "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" Matthew 1:23.

    Therefore Christ Jesus is God the Father, The creator of all things.

    " For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him" Colossians 1:16.
     
    #94 Faithofchristian, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,761
    Ratings:
    +3,094
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Except Jesus the Christ said;

    Matthew 10:34Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

    And

    John 18:36
    "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

    Thus Isaiah 9:6 is prophecy upon Christs return.

    Baha'u'llah the Father, the returned Christ has fulfilled all of Isaiah 9:6, the evidence overwhelming, in my opinion.

    God was indeed with us again and we did to Baha'u'llah what the Jews did to Christ. History has repeated itself time and again. In my opinion.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    We also find the same expression in Isaiah 8:10 Interlinear: Take counsel, and it is broken, Speak a word, and it doth not stand, Because of Emmanu-El!'
    עִמָּ֖נוּ ‘im·mā·nū with us
    אֵֽל׃ ’êl. God [is]

    Showing that God can be with us in various ways. In the case of the Messiah, God was with us. That does not mean Jesus was God the father, as he, as well as all the scriptures repeatedly made clear.

    Please, note.
    Jesus Christ is not God the father, but the son of the father.
    A child can teach us this simple truth.
    Teaching children to the contrary is deadly... for the teacher, that is.
    [​IMG]


    God being in the body of Jesus Christ?
    No. God did not come down on earth. Nor did God die. The Bible also says that no man has seen God at anytime.
    The scripture tell us that God cannot die. God sent his only begotten son to die. It is the only begotten son, that explained God, and that men saw.
    John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

    The scriptures say one thing, and you say another. That would make one a liar, and none of us can claim that the scriptures lie, and we speak truth. So the scriptures make you out to be a liar.
    Are you denying that? Are you saying this scripture is a lie?

    Yes. These represent who Christ is, and the role he currently plays, since he fulfilled the prophecy by means of his faithful course, and death.

    You can't seem to demonstrate how you are getting from A to B.
    A. Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23 (The Messiah is called Emmanuel, Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace)
    B. Christ Jesus is God the Father, The creator of all things.

    Why not take a moment to explain. I'm sure others besides myself would like to hear.
    Why do you assume that Emmanuel must be God the father?
    Why do you assume that Mighty God must be God the father?
    Why do you assume that Everlasting Father must be God the father?
    Why do you assume that Prince of Peace must be God the father?
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Jesus' enemies never thought he was God the father.
    Matthew 26:62-64
    62 With that the high priest stood up and said to him: “Do you say nothing in reply? What is it these men are testifying against you?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. So the high priest said to him: “I put you under oath by the living God to tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him: “You yourself said it. But I say to you: From now on you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    Matthew 27:39, 40, 43, 54
    39 And those passing by spoke abusively of him, shaking their heads 40 and saying: “You who would throw down the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are a son of God, come down off the torture stake!”
    43 He has put his trust in God; let Him now rescue him if He wants him, for he said, ‘I am God’s Son.’
    54 But when the army officer and those with him keeping watch over Jesus saw the earthquake and the things happening, they grew very much afraid and said: “Certainly this was God’s Son.”

    John 19:7
    7 The Jews answered him: “We have a law, and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself God’s son.”

    The Demons never called Jesus Christ God the father.
    Matthew 8:28, 29
    28 When he came to the other side into the region of the Gadarenesʹ, two demon-possessed men coming out from among the tombs met him. They were unusually fierce, so nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”

    Mark 3:11, 12
    11 Even the unclean spirits, whenever they saw him, would fall down before him and cry out and say: “You are the Son of God.” 12 But many times he sternly ordered them not to make him known.

    Luke 4:41
    41 Demons also came out of many, crying out and saying: “You are the Son of God.” But rebuking them, he would not permit them to speak, for they knew him to be the Christ.

    All of his followers, and other people knew Jesus Christ to be the son of God, not God the father.
    Matthew 14:33
    33 Then those in the boat did obeisance to him, saying: “You really are God’s Son.”

    Mark 1:1, 2
    1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God: 2 Just as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: “(Look! I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way.)

    John 1:33, 34
    33 Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me: ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining, this is the one who baptizes in holy spirit.’ 34 And I have seen it, and I have given witness that this one is the Son of God.”

    John 1:48-50
    48 Nathanael said to him: “How do you know me?” Jesus answered him: “Before Philip called you, while you were under the fig tree, I saw you.” 49 Nathanael responded: “Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel.” 50 Jesus answered him: “Do you believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see things greater than these.”

    John 3:16-18
    16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

    John 5:25, 26
    25 “Most truly I say to you, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have paid attention will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.

    John 11:27
    27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”

    John 20:31
    31 But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

    Acts 9:20
    20 and immediately in the synagogues he began to preach about Jesus, that this one is the Son of God.

    Romans 1:1-4
    1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus and called to be an apostle, set apart for God’s good news, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who came to be from the offspring of David according to the flesh, 4 but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2 Corinthians 1:18-21
    18 But God can be relied on that what we say to you is not “yes” and yet “no.” 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you through us, that is, through me and Silvaʹnus and Timothy, did not become “yes” and yet “no,” but “yes” has become “yes” in his case. 20 For no matter how many the promises of God are, they have become “yes” by means of him. Therefore, also through him is the “Amen” said to God, which brings him glory through us. 21 But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God.

    Hebrews 4:14
    14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him.

    1 John 4:14-16
    14 In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God. 16 And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.

    1 John 5:1-21
    1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one who caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and carry out his commandments. 3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4 because everyone who has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith. 5 Who can conquer the world? Is it not the one who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is the one who came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And the spirit is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son. 10 The person putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness within himself. The person not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given by God concerning his Son. 11 And this is the witness, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. 12 The one who has the Son has this life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this life. 13 I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us concerning whatever we are asking, we know that we are to have the things we ask for, since we have asked them of him. 16 If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and yet there is a sin that does not incur death. 18 We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin, but the one born from God watches him, and the wicked one cannot take hold of him. 19 We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. 20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. 21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

    The angels knew Jesus Christ to be the son of God, not God the father.
    Luke 1:35
    35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son.

    Jesus himself, never called himself God the father, but said he was God's son.
    John 10:36
    36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

    How often did Jesus refer to God as his father? Numerous times. Consider just a few.
    Matthew 7:21-23
    21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    Matthew 10:32, 33
    32 “Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.

    Matthew 11:27
    27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,955
    Ratings:
    +721
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    So Jesus is the Father revealed. The Father is in Him!

    His flesh is the veil; the inner place is the "Holiest of holies" the place where the presence of God resides. There is the "mercy seat" or as we know it the "Throne of grace". Jesus body was broken making way to the holiest place. So the veil was torn in half when He gave up the Ghost. Showing that God had left the temple at the same time. Leaving their house "desolate" as Jesus prophesied. And God left the temple of Jesus' body, but would return in the resurrection.

    There is no need for God to be called what He is?

    God is the everlasting Father. God is the Mighty God. God is the Prince(or Chief) of Peace.

    The fact that God is Almighty does not change the fact He is also Mighty. The word "mighty" does not logically refute the word "Almighty". In fact if you are "All-mighty" Then you are indeed also "mighty".

    As for the word "prince" we know what it means in Hebrew. God is a Prince alright. In fact if you look at the old English usage of the word prince you find that a prince is a ruler of some kind. Not necessarily a king's son. A king can be called a prince for example. Or any ruler can be called a prince. Anyone who rules is a prince.

    Here is the 1st definition from Websters Dictionary 1828 edition:

    Prince
    PRINCE, noun prins. [Latin princeps.]

    1. In a general sense, a sovereign; the chief and independent ruler of a nation or state. Thus when we speak of the princes of Europe, we include emperors and kings. Hence, a chief in general; as a prince of the celestial host.
     
  19. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    4,760
    Ratings:
    +2,828
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    in Trinitarian terms, I thought God was Jesus' father (at least in Matthew and Luke), not just the Father.

    Jesus as 100% of God is also his own father, and the Ghost as 100% of God is likewise Jesus' father.

    If that's wrong, explain how.
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,761
    Ratings:
    +3,094
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Jesus was a flesh body and the flesh amounts to nothing.

    Regards Tony
     
Loading...