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Featured John 14:20

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    agreed, we can all be priests of `el
     
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  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    actually god is omnipresent in both earth and heaven because those exist within him as created by him and "through out" her. God existed before the formation of earth and heaven.

    isaiah 66 and revelation 213;

    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
     
  3. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    Once again, since you misunderstood, heaven, to primitive and ignorant humans, is ANYTHING that is not the material universe.

    There are many levels between the universe and heaven and these levels have ALWAYS been misunderstood by the ignorant comet fearing primitive humans, who wrote the books of the bible, to be heaven.

    The bible is not talking about the earth's mid-heaven's where the birds fly? Prove it.
     
  4. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    God created all as ONE? Nope. Who told you that? I am not you and you are not me. I am an individual. I don't want to be one with you. I don't want to be one with God, He has Godly things to do and I have my own things to do.

    Isaiah 45:5 means there is no other Creator. It doesn't mean that you and I are one. Primitive tribal cultures believed that there were many gods.

    Jeremiah 1:5 means that God knew your soul before it connected to your human form. Before you were born, as a human, your soul was set apart from God. The soul is a fragment of God.

    God does not show respect to any personality or person? Then where do the prophets get their info from? Where do genius' get their abilities? There is a Japanese man who can recite pi to 100,000 digits. Can you do that? What it really means is that we are all equal in value to God but we are not equal to others in humanity.

    Job 34:19 means that people should value the poor man just as much as a rich man.

    Jesus isn't "in" you? I didn't say He was. Once again, you misunderstood. You are in the Jesus timeline.

    Numbers 23:19 means that you should not put primitive human traits on God or Jesus because God and Jesus are not like a human who lies or needs to repent.
     
  5. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    God isn't immaterial. God is unformed/uncreated but God isn't immaterial.

    the waters were not created. they existed with God in the beginning; along with the Spirit. heaven and earth are formed by the Spirit moving within the body of god, or moving from within the waters.

    nothing exists apart from God. God is omnipresent
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    you're hung up on forms. all heaven and earth were created from the waters by the Spirit.

    there was no thing made that wasn't made from it. nothing can exist apart from God

    John 1
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


    thus all things are made of the light as jesus said; "you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill cannot be hid."

    this city is revealed in revelation 21 as coming down from heaven; which is where all descend from to the earthly, and all ascend from to the heavenly.

    God is present NOW. John saw it already happening.

    rev 21
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
     
  7. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    God isn't immaterial? He is immaterial but He is also material.

    In what material do your thoughts exist? If you say your brain then how can you know who you are in the afterlife when your brain is dead and back on the earth?

    You haven't given this any real thought. You're trusting the preacher man but he doesn't know the answers. You can't figure out the truth from only reading the bible because the writers of the bible were too primitive to understand what they were being told.

    God is unformed/uncreated? Incorrect. God created Himself.

    The waters were not created? The ideas presented in Genesis were primitive ideas given to primitive humans. You couldn't tell them modern physics because they wouldn't understand. They were afraid of comets. You had to explain things to them children's book style.

    The "waters" existed in the beginning along with spirit? No, they didn't. The "waters" is a primtive way of explaining matter. Spirit did not exist until God created the Son and both of them created Spirit.

    Heaven and earth are formed by the Spirit moving within the waters? Your understanding is too primitive to comprehend what really happened.

    Nothing exists apart from God? Correct.
     
  8. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    I'm hung up on forms? I'm hung up on modern humans worshipping primitive child-like explanations of something that was much too advanced for humans who lived 2,000 years ago to comprehend.

    All heaven and earth were created from the waters by the Spirit? No, all heaven and earth were created out of emergent energy that the scientists call matter. The word "spirit" in this sense is supposed to mean God but God and Spirit are separate beings, that's why you were taught the Father (God), the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    Nothing can exist apart from God? I said that.

    John 1, all things were made by him? I said that, but that is only true in a sense that all energy and matter come from God. If I draw and color a painting that is something I have made, not God.

    While John was in jail he had a dream. John told one of his followers to write down the dream which became the Book of Revelations. Revelations 21 means that John saw the higher levels where angels gather and teach ascending beings the truth about God and the universe. The "city" John saw was Jerusem (No, I did not mispell it).

    In the far future, when humans have evolved to the point where they know everything that beings in heaven know, the angels, and Jesus, will return to the earth and we will be considered to be settled in "light and life".

    God is present NOW? Where?

    John saw it? He didn't see it ALL but he did see some things. The problem is that he was too ignorant to understand what he saw so he gave a cryptic explanation of beasts and lambs and seals. Don't worship John the Baptist. John the Baptist doesn't make universal policy. No human does.
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    no, god is not nothing. god is material. as explained to you the waters are not created in genesis 1:3. they are eternal.

    Revelation 22:1-2
    Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    Jeremiah 17:13
    O LORD, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You will be put to shame Those who turn away on earth will be written down, Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD.

    i never stated anything about a brain. i stated that water is eternal and material thing.


    i don't have a preacher an i don't attend a external church. this is revealed by the Spirit.

    god is eternal and omnipresent. God recreates herself but god is no more a he, than a she. in the image of god he created them male and female. jesus wasn't female; so the bible says.



    actions have effects. effects are material things even in fluid action. kind of like photons can be both a particle and a wave.

    so you agree that matter is eternal, given you're now claiming the waters is a primiive way of explaining matter. matter doesn't come into, or out of being..

    if nothing exists apart from god, the All then spirit and water(matter) are incapsulated one with in the others. from 3 things comes all things.

    it is called the mind, body, spirit complex..
     
    #29 Fool, Aug 15, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  10. Super Universe

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    Immaterial is not nothing, it's immaterial. What is the soul made of?

    Revelation 22:1-2 "Then he showed me..." Who is me? It's John the Baptist. A man who was so ignorant he didn't know the cause of earthquakes, disease, eclipses, comets, meteors, changing seasons, rain, drought, wind, clouds, lightning, thunder, and more than I can list here. This ignorant John the Baptist is the man you think can explain God to modern humanity? Stop worshipping the sayings of ignorant human men.

    You stated that water is eternal? Not on the sun it's not. Not in a black hole. Who is getting stuck on forms now?

    You don't have a preacher or attend a church. It's revealed by Spirit? Oh, okay, let's put your "spirit" to the test. Why then did Jesus say "I come to bring the sword" if He never had one?

    You can't figure it out on your own. You can't use the bible to explain the bible because the writers of the books were too ignorant to know what they were being told and they misinterpreted many things and left out some really important things because they didn't like them.

    God is eternal and omnipresent? Okay.

    God recreates herself? No, God does not.

    God is no more a he than a she? Incorrect. God is a "He", Spirit is a "she". Don't think of male and female in the human sense, think of it in a mathematical sense.

    Jesus was a male because certain universal things go with the "male" mathematical side. The Holy Spirit is female.

    We are created in the image of God does not mean that God looks human. It means we are based upon the God code, DNA.

    Effects are material things, even fluid in action? Then how does a soul move? An angel?

    Photons can be a particle and a wave? Close, it's one or the other, never both. Photon's are particles that act as a wave when there is no observer then they act as an individual particle when observed. The photon is a potential particle when not observed, it, essentially, doesn't even exist until it needs to.

    I agree that matter is eternal? No, I don't.

    Matter does not come into or out of existence? It does but we're talking about something that is beyond current physics. You might look up virtual particles. If matter could not come into existence then there are no "waters".

    If nothing exists separate from God then All, Spirit, and waters (matter) are one? No. If you create a mouse inside a box it does not become one with the box. It's actions are limited by the box to some degree but the box also provides a habitat. Outside the box the mouse would dissolve into virtual particles. Just because everything comes from one source does not make everything one.

    It's called the mind, body, spirit complex? It's called the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
     
  11. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Being part of the divine doesn't necessarily mean you are mega-awesome though. It's like saying "you're unique ... just like everyone else".
    But can he change a tire?

    Jesus told us the eye cannot say to the hand "I don't need you". In other words, sure, we all do different things, but we are all parts of the body.
     
  12. Super Universe

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    Can the Japanese man who can recite pi to 100,000 digits change a tire? I don't know. That information was not included in the article. Being able to change a tire is not exceptional.

    We are all parts of the body? You can see it that way but we are not all "one". We're individuals and we will stay individuals.
     
  13. Fool

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    we're not discussing earthquakes, diseases, eclipses, comets, meteors, or how to make a bagel. the bible is not a western, hard science text book. its a book on metaphysical and metapsychology.

    we're discussing the idea of a whole; which contains a mind, a body, and a spirit. the bible is riddled with metaphors, allegories, and parables that don't have anything to do with hard science; when discussing humans as trees, beasts of varying species, thoughts/beliefs like clouds, actions like fruiting, et al.

    the dead letter of a word is not necessarily the same as the idea behind the word. it could be an idiom.

    when someone says to another, "you're throwing the baby out with the bath water." they aren't really taking a baby in bath water and tossing it out. simply mimicking a thing is not the same as understanding a thing.

    dumb parrot puzzle
     
  14. Fool

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    no we don't stay individuals. the individual is recycled back from whence it came. to nature from western, hard science understanding. but then the consciousness, intelligence is eternal.

    information cannot be created, or destroyed, at the quantum level.
     
  15. Super Universe

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    We're not discussing earthquakes and other things that primitive ignorant humans did not understand 2,000 years ago? That's exactly what we should be discussing. God did not send a flood, there was a large flood because the ignorant humans built their homes along the Euphraties river flood plain. God did not send "fireballs from heaven", there was a meteor that scared the people. God does not send plagues, ignorant humans did not understand the causes of disease. Ignorant people did not understand plate tectonics so they blamed the ground shaking on God.

    If you want to really understand the bible you have to study tribal societies. Once you realize that modern humans have only recently learned the causes of natural events you will know that God is not the vengeful, angry, and jealous being that primitive humans thought. God does not interfere with us in any way.

    We're discussing the idea of a whole? You're trying to, I'm disagreeing. We're not "one" and we're never going to be "one" with God or any other being. We're individuals.

    We're discussing humans as trees? No, we're not. A human is a human. A tree is a tree. One is not the other nor will they one day join together and finally be "one".

    The bible is riddled with metaphors, allegories, and parables that don't have anything to do with hard science? It is, how can you understand the ancient metaphors, allegories, and parables if you don't have an education in tribal societies?

    You're having trouble understanding the real meanings of the phrases of the bible, so, I tell you what, you post a bible quote and I'll tell you what it really means or what it was supposed to mean before the ignorant and primitive humans changed it.
     
  16. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    We don't stay individuals? We do. We really do. Just because you don't like yourself doesn't mean that the universe has to obey your wishes.

    The individual is recycled back from whence it came? Not if it is still selfish it's not.

    Intelligence is eternal? It is, you are not unless you make it to heaven.

    Information cannot be created or destroyed at the quantum level? What about at the relativity level? Humans are not quantum beings.
     
  17. Fool

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    if you're wishing to discuss hard science, isn't this the thread you want?

    The Material World

    i've already been looking at cultures expressing ideas in materialized/realized differences. when you sieve an idea through a number of persons experiences, they don't always get expressed exactly alike. the idea remains the same but the expression is individualized based upon the observer.

    you don't suppose languages mutate and evolve too?
     
  18. Fool

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    nope, personalities don't survive. information does.

    i never claimed to like/dislike anyone but a personality is fixed to a person. people die. the attachments of like/dislike are relative to the person.

    people die

    everything is a state of mind. heaven is only relative to the person's experience. without 1st person experience heaven is always somewhere else; if not a state of mind.

    state of mind is relative. consciousness is a quantum thing
     
  19. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    If I'm wishing to discuss science there are other threads? Can't separate science from God. God is the original scientist.

    Personalities don't survive? Who told you that? You survive if you choose to do the will of God.

    You never claimed to like or dislike anyone? People who want to be "one" with God don't like who they are.

    People die? Their body dies. Their personality continues on unless they choose to quit.

    Everything is a state of mind? Everything is not a state of mind. Food and water are not a state of mind. Money is not a state of mind. Life is not a state of mind. If you mean God and heaven, well, they are real, just not to you.

    State of mind is relative? It is. If you get what you want, you're happy. If you don't, you're pissed off and take it out on others.

    Consciousness is a quantum thing? Is it?
     
  20. Fool

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    you can't prove what you can't control. thou shall not test the lord thy god.

    no, the body dissolves back into it's original uncreated state of matter for this density. thus the personality is dissolved. the information isn't



    Quantum Consciousness | Quantum Consciousness

    Quantum Approaches to Consciousness (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

    Center for Consciousness Studies . Tucson . Arizona

    DeCal

    Roger Penrose Discusses Consciousness
     
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