Jesus Vs. Yahweh

[Sleeppy]

The actions that we are prohibited from doing on the Sabbath are actions that are related (and related by proxy) to creation. They are derived from the building of the Tabernacle, which represents a microcosm of the universe.

By resting from these action on the Sabbath, one is mimicking the Creator and by extension, becoming closer to Him. Likewise, the rest from the creative exercises that represent those that were done to create the world, raise the existence to a point beyond its creation- that of the Divine Unity. This is what the first Sabbath was: a time of Divine Unity.

One who profanes the Sabbath, is both distancing himself from his Creator in a very essential way and is lowering the world into the mundane: his actions contradict and push away the Divine Unity.

Yet God commanded that every other living thing continue to work? Everything from the atoms, to the mind, is commanded to continue working? Divine unity is achieved by existence itself, and existence demands work.

But, who knows.. The poor guy probably signed the contract.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Yet God commanded that every other living thing continue to work? Everything from the atoms, to the mind, is commanded to continue working? Divine unity is achieved by existence itself, and existence demands work.

But, who knows.. The poor guy probably signed the contract.

Or he might have just been ignorant of the prohibition. And from the text that is what I have gathered.

 

[Tumah]

So does murdering him by one of the cruelest means ever devised fix it? So Yahweh is appeased by judicial murder and bloodshed?

Well the punishment should fit the crime. And this guy did one of the worst things one can do. He pushed away the Divine Oneness from himself and from the world. Exactly contrary to the goal for which he should be striving. Additionally, from the context we can understand that out of the whole Israel, he was the lone wolf to do this. Also since all of Israel is one, his actions negatively affected everyone around him.

And for what purpose? To cook up some tea? He was already being fed manna every day. He didn't need food. He just wanted to gather sticks. And that was more important to him than everything mentioned above. He knew what was going to happen to him, capital punishment requires that the perpetrator be warned immediately before the action in front of witnesses.

 

[Tumah]

Yet God commanded that every other living thing continue to work? Everything from the atoms, to the mind, is commanded to continue working? Divine unity is achieved by existence itself, and existence demands work.

But, who knows.. The poor guy probably signed the contract.

That's right. Everything else was not created to strive for the G-dly. They were created to serve us. They do what we need them to do. We do what G-d wants us to do.

 

[Sleeppy]

That's right. Everything else was not created to strive for the G-dly. They were created to serve us. They do what we need them to do. We do what G-d wants us to do.

Everything does what God wills; there's no denying that.

 

[Tumah]

Everything does what God wills; there's no denying that.

Correct. G-d wants everything to do what we need them to do. G-d wants us to do what G-d wants us to do.

 

[Sleeppy]

Correct. G-d wants everything to do what we need them to do. G-d wants us to do what G-d wants us to do.

You say that God wants in vain.. That's where we differ.

 

[Tumah]

You say that God wants in vain.. That's where we differ.

Do I though?

 

[Sleeppy]

Do I though?

Not if you don't say so. That's just my impression. There is no will, but God's. We perceive ourselves apart, being limited in power (pertaining to each preordained moment) and varying in ignorance (there is a subconscious mind working underneath our present thoughts). Free will is a very effective illusion. God is God, and there is only one. We are not truly gods; but God has allowed us the privileges to experience and remember some of His own glories. --We haven't fully remembered our truly distant pasts.. We'll never remember, or fully understand our oneness- like we don't remember being Adam.

 

[Gehennaite]

I used to be a Unitarian Universalist. I viewed YHWH as God and Father - and Yeshua as his only begotten son; the highest-ordered creature in existence. I honestly don't understand the message in your OP. I'll just go ahead and state that its nonsensical for a creature to overpower its creator.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I used to be a Unitarian Universalist. I viewed YHWH as God and Father - and Yeshua as his only begotten son; the highest-ordered creature in existence. I honestly don't understand the message in your OP. I'll just go ahead and state that its nonsensical for a creature to overpower its creator.

I am a Gnostic, so I believe it is my duty to not only resist my creator but to expose him for what he is. Jesus is not the son of Yahweh, Jesus is a child of the Pleroma or the Fullness of the Godhead. Yahweh is the Demiurge.

 

[outhouse]

I am a Gnostic, so I believe it is my duty to not only resist my creator but to expose him for what he is.

When will you start?????

Jesus is not the son of Yahweh, Jesus is a child of the Pleroma or the Fullness of the Godhead.

What makes you so special that you think you can redefine him???

Yahweh is the Demiurge.

What attributes that can be attributed that gave you this idea, where you can state it with such certainty ?

 

[arcanum]

That's very convenient.

What's your proof that he was talking about someone else?

This is in english yanno?

I submit to you the whole parable thus putting it in proper context.

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me

 

[CMike]

I submit to you the whole parable thus putting it in proper context.

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me

Yanno...as I said I would grant Christians the right to interpret their own scriptures as they see fit, if they would extend the same courtesy to jews.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

When will you start?????

Tomorrow at noon. After my dentist appointment.

What makes you so special that you think you can redefine him???

I am not redefining him, it is how he is defined in the Bible.


"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally" - Colossians 2:9

What attributes that can be attributed that gave you this idea, where you can state it with such certainty ?

The creative and destructive activity is a start and then there is the tyranny . That is what a demiurge does.

 

[nazz]

So who do you think would win in a fight, Jesus or Yahweh?

Here we have Yahweh:

"The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, “If only we had meat to eat! We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost"" Numbers 11:4-5

"And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." Number 21:5-6

So kids, the lesson is if you ask Yahweh for fish or complain about hunger, Yahweh will give you serpents.

Here is what Jesus said about that:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Jesus implies that only someone who is totally evil would give their child serpents when they asked for fish.

Here is Yahweh again:

"Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

At this the king sent to Elijah another captain with his fifty men. The captain said to him, “Man of God, this is what the king says, ‘Come down at once!’”

“If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men." - 2 Kings 1: 10-12

And here is Jesus on that issue:

"When the time was coming near for Jesus to depart , he was determined to go to Jerusalem He sent some messengers ahead of him, who went into a town in Samaria to make everything ready for him. But the people there would not welcome him, because he was set on going to Jerusalem. When James and John, followers of Jesus, saw this, they said, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven and destroy those people?”

But Jesus turned and scolded them. And Jesus said, “You don’t know what kind of spirit you belong to. The Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of people but to save them.” Then they went to another town." Luke 5: 51-56

Jesus thought it was more than just a dick move to murder people with fire down from heaven just because they did not believe the same things as you did. But for Yahweh, he has no problem with burning you to death with sky fire if you do not believe in him.

I really don't see Jesus and Yahweh seeing eye to eye on much in the Bible, they are not even on the same page, it looks like they contrast each other and that Jesus opposes everything that Yahweh stands for. Face it they are not on the same team but at opposite ends of the field.

So who do you think would win a fight, Jesus or Yahweh?

you're preaching to the gnostic choir

 

[CynthiaCypher]

you're preaching to the gnostic choir

Oh yes I am

 

[sojourner]

So who do you think would win in a fight, Jesus or Yahweh?

Here we have Yahweh:

"The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, “If only we had meat to eat! We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost"" Numbers 11:4-5

"And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." Number 21:5-6

So kids, the lesson is if you ask Yahweh for fish or complain about hunger, Yahweh will give you serpents.

Here is what Jesus said about that:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Jesus implies that only someone who is totally evil would give their child serpents when they asked for fish.

Here is Yahweh again:

"Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

At this the king sent to Elijah another captain with his fifty men. The captain said to him, “Man of God, this is what the king says, ‘Come down at once!’”

“If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men." - 2 Kings 1: 10-12

And here is Jesus on that issue:

"When the time was coming near for Jesus to depart , he was determined to go to Jerusalem He sent some messengers ahead of him, who went into a town in Samaria to make everything ready for him. But the people there would not welcome him, because he was set on going to Jerusalem. When James and John, followers of Jesus, saw this, they said, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven and destroy those people?”

But Jesus turned and scolded them. And Jesus said, “You don’t know what kind of spirit you belong to. The Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of people but to save them.” Then they went to another town." Luke 5: 51-56

Jesus thought it was more than just a dick move to murder people with fire down from heaven just because they did not believe the same things as you did. But for Yahweh, he has no problem with burning you to death with sky fire if you do not believe in him.

I really don't see Jesus and Yahweh seeing eye to eye on much in the Bible, they are not even on the same page, it looks like they contrast each other and that Jesus opposes everything that Yahweh stands for. Face it they are not on the same team but at opposite ends of the field.

So who do you think would win a fight, Jesus or Yahweh?

Chuck Norris would win. :fight:

 

[CMike]

Mike, truthfully I have no bone to pick with Judaism...at all. This is just about the contrasts between Jesus and Yahweh. My Op is more aimed at Christians. If you want to worship Yahweh then more power to you , but I am not trying to criticize your religion. But I want you to understand that my tradition sees Yahweh as the Demiurge.

If find that hard to believe since that it what you are doing. You are not trying to understand what it says, you are trying to criticize.

 

[CMike]

But killing him for gathering sticks seem a bit like overkill. It's something the Taliban would do.

And killing everyone who doesn't bow down to jesus is something the taliban wouldn't do?

Not that I accept your original premise.