Jesus' Tomb Opened for First Time in Centuries

[loverofhumanity]

The tomb is empty because the body had been removed so the Romans could not disrespect it because if it became revered and a Shrine set up, then it probably would have been desecrated, burnt or fed to dogs so Christians hid it for centuries.

It may still be somewhere under the Church of the Holy Sepulchre but the tomb was empty as expected.

 

[loverofhumanity]

These people couldn't differentiate between clinical death and comatose ... and some can't even NOW, even though we have lots of machines to help figure it out. Jesus can "look dead" and be put in a tomb (convenient he wasn't buried in the earth, right?) and then wake up later. I mean, it happened to Juliet ....

It's upsetting that Christians choose the interpretation that makes them feel superior to everyone else. This only creates more barriers between people. The resurrection can be interpreted also as a dream or a vision but they want it to mean they are the superior race on earth so they are sticking to the interpretation which supports their feelings of superiority.

 

[Shiranui117]

I've had dreams where I have had physical interaction, spoken and met people. Then I woke up. Apparently most are still sleeping.

It is a mere superstition that the clergy has preyed upon gullible minds who will believe such interpretations in order to amass membership and prevent losing their followers to other Faiths.

There are other ways of interpreting these passages but Christians CHOOSE the interpretation which makes their egos feel superior and exalted above everyone else.

Keep in mind that for the first 300 years of Christian history, being a Christian meant being an enemy of the Roman state. You're not going to sell your religion to too many people or gain too many followers, and you're certainly not going to have a superiority complex when people in your family and your neighborhoods are being rounded up and tortured to death.

Why not choose an interpretation which says that the Body of the Cause of Jesus resurrected? Because then that could be applied to Muhammad and Buddha also and to all the religions and then you would have no more superiority arguments that you have the sole truth and are the only ones saved. All the Messengers of God whether Muhammad, Buddha, Baha'u'llah all were equal and there is no superiority except what the clergy has taught to entrap gullible minds.

The Body of the Cause of Christ? The disciples were packed up and on their ways home. They were done. In their minds and in the minds of everyone else in Judaea at the time, Jesus was just another dime-a-dozen would-be Messiah. A couple wishful inspirational visions of Jesus weren't going to make them change their minds and leave home again to face what they knew full well would be thousands of Jews laughing hysterically at the idiots still carrying on about the same tripe that their publicly crucified leader did. No motivational vision of Jesus giving them a pep-talk would have changed their minds. Even when they heard and saw that the tomb was empty, they were still either on their ways home or holed up in Jerusalem hiding from everyone. It wasn't until Jesus physically appeared in front of them, broke bread with them, ate with them and cooked breakfast for them that they fully believed. And visions don't eat, cook breakfast or have bodies that you can touch. Unless you believe the Apostles were sleepwalking for days on end and just seeing things.

And the Resurrection of Christ wouldn't have been such a big thing in Christianity unless Jesus was actually resurrected from the dead. The entire Christian faith is founded on the Resurrection. Without the Resurrection, there is no Christianity, just Judaism with a bit more emphasis on love and humility.

As St. Paul says, if Christ is not risen from the dead, then we are still in our sins. He wasn't talking about a wishy-washy "cause of Christ". He was talking about Christ Himself, literally and physically rising from the dead, just as it is clearly preached in all four Gospels and throughout the rest of the New Testament. You can deny Jesus' Resurrection, but do yourself a favor and deny the whole of the New Testament for the sake of intellectual consistency.

The passages can be interpreted in ways that don't exalt Christians above the rest of the human race as superior 'saved' chosen ones but that wouldn't give the ego the heavenly bliss of feeling superior to everyone else and being the only saved ones, unique and exclusive.

Christ taught humility. The false teachings going around now that ones belief is superior to others contradicts every law of love and is not what the Bible teaches but what people CHOOSE to interpret to satisfy their egos as they of course want to see themselves as superior to others.

News flash: Christianity isn't about having a superiority complex, and it never has been. I'm sorry that you've seen a load of crappy Christians, but that's just what they are: Crappy Christians. The Christianity of the Bible is about humility and service, not "holier-than-thou"-ism.

The Cause of every Messenger/ Messiah was resurrected. There is nothing unique or exclusive about Christians claims except that they don't investigate using their minds and don't look at things like Mount Tabor where Moses and Elias were present yet it was a vision.

Oh no, we do. We're just able to use our minds and see that, if Jesus ate fish in front of people, and tells people to touch His body, and says that He is physically risen from the dead, then He must logically be physically risen from the dead. As we say, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, feels like a duck, eats like a duck and quacks like a duck...

The Christian interpretation of the resurrection is a materialistic interpretation unworthy of Christ and makes Him look like a circus performer Who proves His worth by performing tricks such as walking in water and rising from the dead which all have spiritual meanings not what is currently believed.

So Jesus never worked a single miracle, then. The Gospel authors were just being deliberately confusing to weed out the college freshmen studying the Bible. None of it is actually real, it's all just code for a hidden, spiritual mystery.

Or, a much more logical idea, and one which has been the standard of Christian thought for millennia: Certain things like Jesus' miracles have multiple layers of truth. The physical truth of the miracle, and the spiritual truth behind it.

Your interpretation is just a way to do the mental gymnastics of reconciling the Christian idea that Jesus rose from the dead with the Islamic idea that Jesus never died in the first place, because according to the Baha'i Faith, no religion contradicts another. The people who founded the religions just interpreted their own religions wrong. So what Baha'u'llah comes up with is that Jesus died, but His ideas and inspiration lived on in the hearts of the Apostles, who rather than going home like smart people who just had their leader murdered, disgraced and discredited in front of the whole of the Jewish world, for some reason decided to keep preaching His message.

You can believe that, and I'm nobody to tell anyone what to believe. Just don't tell me that my religion can't interpret the holy book that my religion wrote. That's like you telling me that I can't properly interpret this post I'm writing right now.

His Words of love and forgiveness and turning the other cheek are the foundation of His religion not tricks and magic.

Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness and turning the other cheek are nothing new. These ideas have been present in every religion since the beginning. If that is all Christianity is, then there is nothing different about Christianity from any religion before or after. It would be utterly useless to found yet another religion based on that, when literally every other religion teaches the same exact thing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Keep in mind that for the first 300 years of Christian history, being a Christian meant being an enemy of the Roman state. You're not going to sell your religion to too many people or gain too many followers, and you're certainly not going to have a superiority complex when people in your family and your neighborhoods are being rounded up and tortured to death.

The Body of the Cause of Christ? The disciples were packed up and on their ways home. They were done. In their minds and in the minds of everyone else in Judaea at the time, Jesus was just another dime-a-dozen would-be Messiah. A couple wishful inspirational visions of Jesus weren't going to make them change their minds and leave home again to face what they knew full well would be thousands of Jews laughing hysterically at the idiots still carrying on about the same tripe that their publicly crucified leader did. No motivational vision of Jesus giving them a pep-talk would have changed their minds. Even when they heard and saw that the tomb was empty, they were still either on their ways home or holed up in Jerusalem hiding from everyone. It wasn't until Jesus physically appeared in front of them, broke bread with them, ate with them and cooked breakfast for them that they fully believed. And visions don't eat, cook breakfast or have bodies that you can touch. Unless you believe the Apostles were sleepwalking for days on end and just seeing things.

And the Resurrection of Christ wouldn't have been such a big thing in Christianity unless Jesus was actually resurrected from the dead. The entire Christian faith is founded on the Resurrection. Without the Resurrection, there is no Christianity, just Judaism with a bit more emphasis on love and humility.

As St. Paul says, if Christ is not risen from the dead, then we are still in our sins. He wasn't talking about a wishy-washy "cause of Christ". He was talking about Christ Himself, literally and physically rising from the dead, just as it is clearly preached in all four Gospels and throughout the rest of the New Testament. You can deny Jesus' Resurrection, but do yourself a favor and deny the whole of the New Testament for the sake of intellectual consistency.


News flash: Christianity isn't about having a superiority complex, and it never has been. I'm sorry that you've seen a load of crappy Christians, but that's just what they are: Crappy Christians. The Christianity of the Bible is about humility and service, not "holier-than-thou"-ism.

Oh no, we do. We're just able to use our minds and see that, if Jesus ate fish in front of people, and tells people to touch His body, and says that He is physically risen from the dead, then He must logically be physically risen from the dead. As we say, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, feels like a duck, eats like a duck and quacks like a duck...

So Jesus never worked a single miracle, then. The Gospel authors were just being deliberately confusing to weed out the college freshmen studying the Bible. None of it is actually real, it's all just code for a hidden, spiritual mystery.

Or, a much more logical idea, and one which has been the standard of Christian thought for millennia: Certain things like Jesus' miracles have multiple layers of truth. The physical truth of the miracle, and the spiritual truth behind it.

Your interpretation is just a way to do the mental gymnastics of reconciling the Christian idea that Jesus rose from the dead with the Islamic idea that Jesus never died in the first place, because according to the Baha'i Faith, no religion contradicts another. The people who founded the religions just interpreted their own religions wrong. So what Baha'u'llah comes up with is that Jesus died, but His ideas and inspiration lived on in the hearts of the Apostles, who rather than going home like smart people who just had their leader murdered, disgraced and discredited in front of the whole of the Jewish world, for some reason decided to keep preaching His message.

You can believe that, and I'm nobody to tell anyone what to believe. Just don't tell me that my religion can't interpret the holy book that my religion wrote. That's like you telling me that I can't properly interpret this post I'm writing right now.


Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness and turning the other cheek are nothing new. These ideas have been present in every religion since the beginning. If that is all Christianity is, then there is nothing different about Christianity from any religion before or after. It would be utterly useless to found yet another religion based on that, when literally every other religion teaches the same exact thing.

It's all in the interpretation. There's absolutely nothing supporting the view of a physical resurrection except self insistence.

The Jews as a majority and the most learned of them rejected Jesus so a majority even of the learned means little when it comes to interpretations. There were over 300 prophecies in the Pentateuch regarding Christ yet the Jews missed all of them through misinterpretation.

And again here we have the self insistence of knowing the interpretation and again we have the second Coming of Christ missed by Christians with His new name Baha'u'llah just as the Jews missed Christ.

Mount Tabor. It was a vision. They spoke they saw. It was a vision. Even Moses and Elias and God were present!! But it was in the world of vision!!

So although you say your understanding of the resurrection to be physical is the correct one, there is nothing to support that view as it is open to interpretation and can be disputed.

The purpose here is not disputation but to show that your views are not as rock solid as you project as they are based purely on your own and others interpretations - man made interpretations not upon a verified, authoritative, infallible interpretation.

And until you can produce that, it would be advisable not to build the foundation of your belief on the sand of self interpretation.

If however you use the Word of God and cross reference things like Mount Tabor with the resurrection then you will see clearly that happenings such as these in the Bible refer to visions not physical occurrences.

 

[Shiranui117]

It's all in the interpretation. There's absolutely nothing supporting the view of a physical resurrection except self insistence.

The Jews as a majority and the most learned of them rejected Jesus so a majority even of the learned means little when it comes to interpretations. There were over 300 prophecies in the Pentateuch regarding Christ yet the Jews missed all of them through misinterpretation.

And again here we have the self insistence of knowing the interpretation and again we have the second Coming of Christ missed by Christians with His new name Baha'u'llah just as the Jews missed Christ.

Mount Tabor. It was a vision. They spoke they saw. It was a vision. Even Moses and Elias and God were present!! But it was in the world of vision!!

So although you say your understanding of the resurrection to be physical is the correct one, there is nothing to support that view as it is open to interpretation and can be disputed.

The purpose here is not disputation but to show that your views are not as rock solid as you project as they are based purely on your own and others interpretations - man made interpretations not upon a verified, authoritative, infallible interpretation.

And until you can produce that, it would be advisable not to build the foundation of your belief on the sand of self interpretation.

If however you use the Word of God and cross reference things like Mount Tabor with the resurrection then you will see clearly that happenings such as these in the Bible refer to visions not physical occurrences.

If the Apostles cross-reference seeing Jesus eating fish with seeing an empty plate that had fish on it five minutes ago, then they will clearly see that Jesus had a physical body with which to eat the fish.

You can say "it's just your interpretation" all you like. But don't try and tell me that Edgar Allen Poe's short story "The Black Cat" had nothing to do with a black cat while you're at it. I don't think you realize how this line of argument makes you sound like you're being the superior one. "We're all just too stupid to read our own holy books and needed Baha'u'llah to show us how to read them" is what your argument sounds like to me.

As I said, we Christians wrote the Gospels. We sure as daylight know how to read the very books that we ourselves wrote. You can't argue with the author's interpretation of his own book. I'm going to take the author's interpretation of his own work over Baha'u'llah's interpretation any day of the week.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If the Apostles cross-reference seeing Jesus eating fish with seeing an empty plate that had fish on it five minutes ago, then they will clearly see that Jesus had a physical body with which to eat the fish.

You can say "it's just your interpretation" all you like. But don't try and tell me that Edgar Allen Poe's short story "The Black Cat" had nothing to do with a black cat while you're at it.

As I said, we Christians wrote the Gospels. We sure as daylight know how to read the very books that we ourselves wrote. You can't argue with the author's interpretation of his own book. I'm going to take the author's interpretation of his own work over Baha'u'llah's interpretation any day of the week.

The books are sealed so claiming you know how to read them is wrong. No man on earth can unseal the books not in heaven or in earth so not you nor I.

Claiming to know the meanings is in contradiction to Revelation Chapter 5 which says not you or anyone in heaven or on earth knows unless you don't accept that part of the Bible?

Only the Lion of Judah can unseal the meanings not Christians.

And the lamb spoken of in Revelation is an arnion lamb referring to the Bab, as Christ is always referred in the gospels as the paschal lamb that was crucified. The lamb in revelation was not crucified but slain.

Baha'u'llah is a descendent of David through his father Jesse, the tribe of Judah. If you have those qualifications you can unseal the meanings. If not you cannot tell me you know the meanings as the very bible disputes your call.

 

[Shiranui117]

The books are sealed so claiming you know how to read them is wrong. No man on earth can unseal the books not in heaven or in earth so not you nor I.

Claiming to know the meanings is in contradiction to Revelation Chapter 5 which says not you or anyone in heaven or on earth knows unless you don't accept that part of the Bible?

Only the Lion of Judah can unseal the meanings not Christians.

And the lamb spoken of in Revelation is an arnion lamb referring to the Bab, as Christ is always referred in the gospels as the paschal lamb that was crucified. The lamb in revelation was not crucified but slain.

Baha'u'llah is a descendent of David through his father Jesse, the tribe of Judah. If you have those qualifications you can unseal the meanings. If not you cannot tell me you know the meanings as the very bible disputes your call.

Alright, now this is outside the realm of any kind of Christian teaching, and is solidly in Baha'i territory. As I have no desire to discuss that side of things or further derail this thread, this will be where I bow out of the conversation.

Peace out.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Alright, now this is outside the realm of any kind of Christian teaching, and is solidly in Baha'i territory. As I have no desire to discuss that side of things or further derail this thread, this will be where I bow out of the conversation.

Peace out.

Peace to you brother.

 

[Tumah]

Just a few things.

Without the Resurrection, there is no Christianity, just Judaism with a bit more emphasis on love and humility.

Gross overstatement?

You can believe that, and I'm nobody to tell anyone what to believe. Just don't tell me that my religion can't interpret the holy book that my religion wrote. That's like you telling me that I can't properly interpret this post I'm writing right now.

Agreed.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You're not comatose after you get stabbed in the chest with a spear, unless the solder in question doing the stabbing is hella incompetent. (John 19:34) Juliet just messed up with the dosage.

I'm a nurse, so my theory comes from general medical knowledge.

It never really says he was stabbed in the chest, just his SIDE. Anyway, water supposedly came out. That shouldn't happen. I suspect he either had pre-existing fluid related problems (like congestive heart failure) or maybe it started during the torture of the passion, but stabbing him relieved the symptoms (much as we would insert a chest tube for someone who has fluid compressing the lungs). He fainted like dead (don't see any text where they checked for breath or pulse) and woke up 3 days later in a convenient above-ground tomb. I suspect that (and it pains me to use John, as I loathe his books, but he's the only one who mentions it) they stumbled on a valid medical practice but as they didn't understand why it worked, he was considered "resurrected."

And Juliet's dosage did what the plot demanded. She was SUPPOSED to look dead. That was the entire point. The drama comes from no one getting Romeo the memo before he found her.

 

[jonathan180iq]

How was this tomb authenticated? Were any scholars, historians, or archaeologists involved?

Nope

 

[james bond]

UPDATE:

New images
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...tains-slab-Jesus-resurrected-crucifixion.html

Opening the tomb of Jesus by Eric Metaxas
http://www.christianpost.com/news/opening-the-tomb-of-jesus-171757/

 

[loverofhumanity]

UPDATE:

New images
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...tains-slab-Jesus-resurrected-crucifixion.html

Opening the tomb of Jesus by Eric Metaxas
http://www.christianpost.com/news/opening-the-tomb-of-jesus-171757/

Thanks very much for this link. Personally, only my own view, is that Christ never bodily resurrected and that His sarcophagus is under the Holy Sepulchre. His Body was hidden.

Whether the church knows, they should, but would they come out openly about it as their entire religion is built on the resurrection?

His spiritual authority, His Teachings are sufficient proof of His Station. When we go into miracles and things like that it's lowering God to our level.

Any circus performer or magician can perform all sorts of feats but only Christ could change hearts and transform wickedness into goodness.

 

[Milton Platt]

"The original rock where Jesus Christ is traditionally believed to have been buried in Jerusalem has been exposed to the light of day for the first time in centuries.

According to an exclusive report by National Geographic, a partner in the project at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the original rock surface has been covered with marble slabs since at least 1555, and possibly longer. During a conservation project to shore up the shrine surrounding the tomb, a team from the National Technical University of Athens in Greece realized that they would need to access the substructure of the shrine to restore it, said Fredrik Hiebert, the archaeologist-in-residence at the National Geographic Society. [See Photos of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre]

"The Greek conservation group are the first, as far as we know, to actually open this," Hiebert told Live Science. "It's pretty exceptional."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jesus-tomb-opened-first-time-160800494.html

Provide the evidence that this is a tomb that the supposed Jesus was in. How can you do this? Are you just accepting hearsay? I think so.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Provide the evidence that this is a tomb that the supposed Jesus was in. How can you do this? Are you just accepting hearsay? I think so.

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls found was the Book of Isaiah. When compared with copy extant today it is almost identical. We are able to maintain authenticity. We're not completely incompetent.

Something ordered to be built by Constantine was hardly unknown or obscure then and since, has remained an object of devotion for centuries by millions around the world.

It's not easy to lose a sacred tomb built on the orders of a very famous Emperor and which since, hundreds of millions turn to.

There would be all sorts of legal documents and archeological proof that one could investigate further but I'm satisfied of it's genuineness and my own religion confirms it is true.

 

[Milton Platt]

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls found was the Book of Isaiah. When compared with copy extant today it is almost identical. We are able to maintain authenticity. We're not completely incompetent.

Something ordered to be built by Constantine was hardly unknown or obscure then and since, has remained an object of devotion for centuries by millions around the world.

It's not easy to lose a sacred tomb built on the orders of a very famous Emperor and which since, hundreds of millions turn to.

There would be all sorts of legal documents and archeological proof that one could investigate further but I'm satisfied of it's genuineness and my own religion confirms it is true.

Sorry, there seems to be a disconnect. Jesus was buried in a cave, right? Jesus dies before Constantine, right? Show that a man named Jesus was buried at this location.

 

[roger1440]

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls found was the Book of Isaiah. When compared with copy extant today it is almost identical. We are able to maintain authenticity. We're not completely incompetent.

Something ordered to be built by Constantine was hardly unknown or obscure then and since, has remained an object of devotion for centuries by millions around the world.

It's not easy to lose a sacred tomb built on the orders of a very famous Emperor and which since, hundreds of millions turn to.

There would be all sorts of legal documents and archeological proof that one could investigate further but I'm satisfied of it's genuineness and my own religion confirms it is true.

I’m not aware of any evidence “hundreds of millions” of people had provided.

 

[Milton Platt]

Sorry, there seems to be a disconnect. Jesus was buried in a cave, right? Jesus dies before Constantine, right? Show that a man named Jesus was buried at this location.

There are no documents that provide evidence that the man Jesus was buried here. At best, you could only have verbal hearsay. Your religion confirms absolutely nothing about this location. The fact that an emperor decided to build an edifice at this location does not either. How was the sight chosen?

 

[columbus]

There are no documents that provide evidence that the man Jesus was buried here. At best, you could only have verbal hearsay. Your religion confirms absolutely nothing about this location. The fact that an emperor decided to build an edifice at this location does not either. How was the sight chosen?

The emperor's mother went to Jerusalem and picked a tomb that vaguely matched the description, centuries after the location had been completely forgotten. It is not really too impressive on anybodys part. Especially the original disciples who did not note the spot.
Tom

 

[loverofhumanity]

I’m not aware of any evidence “hundreds of millions” of people had provided.

I simply meant that that site is sacred to hundreds of millions of Christians and has been through the centuries so it is well known and so I don't believed is mistaken. Sorry if I wasn't clear.