Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but throug

[BornAgain]

Hi, Sage Tree!

Those questions....
Who wrote this gospel?
When was this gospel written?

Real questions......
The last time I read G.John throughout was in 1994. It did vary a lot from G.Matthew and G.Mark, and I must say that I was more attracted to Matthew and Mark.

Right now, on this thread, I just want to ask Christians who they think did write G.John and when, because their answers can be of real value to me. Since these passages have such massive import for Christians, each one of them might be able to give a reply by return. But not one has.

As a religious mongrel I'm more and more interested in Jesus; that interest has grown and developed in the several months that I've visited this forum. But my interest is more focused towards 'How to talk about Jesus to atheists and agnostics'.

Obviously, if no Christians present can answer my two questions, that is answer enough for me, but if any wish to....... great. :yes:

As a Gentile, if you are not Jew, you should read Paul's epistles. Romans is a good start. Galatians is a very powerful book. Acts is also a very good source of info for the Gentiles. When did the Gentiles appeared in the New Testament? You must understand where are you, as a Gentile, in the bible. Where and what are the messages of God for the Gentiles in the bible?

 

[Windwalker]

Now, if one is spiritually discerned, one can comprehend spiritually the layers beyond the surface of the bible.

Do you claim this for yourself?

I don't sense spiritual discernment at all in your banging people over the head in this civil discussion with a barrage of Bible verses. I sense something else.

Please back off with all the Bible banging in this thread. You're not discussing. You're preaching. Thank you.

 

[Thief]

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.( New American Standard Bible). This statement of Jesus has been interpreted to mean that Jesus Christ is the only way to God or true way to God
Interestingly here Jesus equates 'the way' with truth and the life.
This interpretation makes Christianity an exclusive religion and presents Jesus as a kind of spiritual colonizer. It is a very difficult statement for the inter-religious dialogue.

Are there any different ways of interpreting this statement of Jesus?

You were saying so and didn't seem to notice.

'Way'...as in method.....as in discipline.

Other prophets have done the same....the words may have been different.

The way to heaven....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I doubt entry into heaven is done by less.

 

[BornAgain]

Do you claim this for yourself?

I don't sense spiritual discernment at all in your banging people over the head in this civil discussion with a barrage of Bible verses. I sense something else.

Please back off with all the Bible banging in this thread. You're not discussing. You're preaching. Thank you.

Aha! So, this "civil discussion" is all about your egos, your intellect, your own philosophies, your own concocted medicines that makes you feel good, and not about religious discussion. You read bible verses and right away you jump, "get away he is preaching." it really hurts when you hear the truths, isn't it? here is another for you.

Isa30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

you should read this in NLT so you could understand it better. this is a religious public forum, isn't it?

 

[Quagmire]

Aha! So, this "civil discussion" is all about your egos, your intellect, your own philosophies, your own concocted medicines that makes you feel good, and not about religious discussion. You read bible verses and right away you jump, "get away he is preaching." it really hurts when hear the truths, isn't it? here is another for you.

Isa30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

you should read this in NLT so you could understand it better. this is a religious public forum, isn't it?

No, this is a public forum about religion. Subtle but important difference.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe Lucifer would be glad to write the fifth gospel with the next step you feel is needed, telling everyone (again) how to really understand God’s words, reach godhood and attain their higher self, Christ-consciousness. The only problem is this didn’t work out to well for humanity in the beginning so I doubt it is going to work out any better now, especially when Jesus Christ Himself Personally soon returns to rule the nations as the King of Kings and Lords of Lords (Rev. 19:15-16).



"Heresy is an infection in the Body of Christ. By definition, heresy is an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious TRUTH. Heresy is not just error; it’s anti-truth! And like an infection in the human body, heresy always affects one’s spiritual health (as well as emotional, mental, and sometimes physical health). So, heresy must be addressed. It cannot be ignored. The medical treatment for all heresy is found in the New Testament!

The infection in Colosse afflicted the believers there regarding their view of the identity and deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. False teachers taught that Jesus was not the Lord, just a lord. They were teaching them that faith in Jesus was not enough for them to be spiritual. They needed to add other “experiences” to the mix. This is the root error of many cults today. The place that Christ holds in any religious teaching determines whether it is true or false—healthy food or heresy. The Colossians were infected with heresy.

Paul wrote the letter of Colossians to contradict this infection. In Colossians, we find through Paul the greatest declaration of Christ’s deity and sufficiency found in Scripture. What Paul wrote then seems written expressly for our own day when so many “teachers” and “groups” are trying to rob Jesus Christ of his deity and sufficiency for our salvation through grace alone and our acceptance to God apart from works.

The emphases of these false teachers are still with us today. The first is “higher” knowledge (Gnosticism). The second is the observance of laws to win God’s love (legalism). The third is the belief that beings other than Christ must mediate between people and God (mysticism). The fourth is the practice of abstaining from things to earn merit with God (asceticism). (Constable’s Notes on Colossians, p. 36)"


Excerpt from: Introduction: ABCs of Colossians | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

I find it interesting that in the course of warning against people who explain how to really understand God's word, you quote someone who explains how to really understand God's word.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the true living God. Is seen in the true physical nature that we observe on a daily,and yearly basis. Light comes from the sun,and darkness comes when the earth turns away from the sun. The sun "rises" above,and falls below the horizon everyday. For Jesus also died,and rose again. A seed has to be buried into the ground,and it's outer shell die...before the new life is formed within it,and burst's forth in resurrection from out of the ground,as it's limbs spread out as it grows, praising the new life which it has received from the "light of the sun". All these things are clearly physical representations of the ETERNAL GOD HEAD woven into the very fabric of nature by the very SON OF GOD who created her.
- Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
-Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
-Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
-Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


Blessings...
SC

 

[BornAgain]

No, this is a public forum about religion. Subtle but important difference.

another atheist on the defense.. I belong to a MTB forum. we talk nothing but trails we visited, and about our bikes, and equiments, and nothing else beside those. in a www.religiousforum.com we talk about religions. I'm a born again Christian and so proud of it. Now, when I read some wanna be half baked theorist who pretends to be a christian, because they read the bible, but totally mis-quoting the very truth word of God, I cannot let it go. I do not and will not compromise the word of God to any atheists, pagans, wood worshipers, stone worshipers, or some other religions just to make them feel good. this is not a place for you if you want to feel good.

2Co10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

If You don't like bible verses then you are in a wrong place.

 

[Quagmire]

another atheist on the defense..

I'm not an atheist. And I wasn't defending anything, I was correcting you.

I belong to a MTB forum.

They have forums for Mis-Translating the Bible?

we talk nothing but trails we visited, and about our bikes, and equiments, and nothing else beside those.

Ah, my mistake.

in a www.religiousforum.com we talk about religions.

Charley? I've been working for this place for almost 6 years. You just got here about 2 weeks ago.

Are you really going to start lecturing me about what this place is supposed to be for?

I'm a born again Christian and so proud of it.

I can tell.

Now, when I read some wanna be half baked theorist who pretends to be a christian, because they read the bible,

That's right: we all know real Christians almost never read the Bible.

but totally mis-quoting the very truth word of God, I cannot let it go. I do not and will not compromise the word of God to any atheists, pagans, wood worshipers, stone worshipers, or some other religions just to make them feel good. this is not a place for you if you want to feel good.

Are you talking about RF or Earth?

2Co10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself

Pay close attention to that last line. :yes:

against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

If You don't like bible verses then you are in a wrong place.

Why didn't you tell me that 6 years ago?

 

[Windwalker]

Aha! So, this "civil discussion" is all about your egos, your intellect, your own philosophies, your own concocted medicines that makes you feel good, and not about religious discussion.

Troll.

 

[Straw Dog]

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but through me."

Let's break it down.

Jesus was empty of self-nature. To be the way meant that his manner of transformation involved a dissolution of ego such that his inner light could flow forth freely. Jesus wasn't pointing at his flesh or ego as truth, but rather the primal spirit within all. Harmony with this primordial light aligns one's will with the eternal life force and so nobody can come to actualize their eternal nature without becoming empty of self-nature.

 

[BornAgain]

I'm not an atheist. And I wasn't defending anything, I was correcting you.

Correcting me of what? About Windwalker and Martin?

 

[Quagmire]

Correcting me of what? About Windwalker and Martin?

Have you really forgotten what we were talking about, or are you just trying to be difficult?

 

[John Martin]

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but through me."

Let's break it down.

(Jesus was empty of self-nature. To be the way meant that his manner of transformation involved a dissolution of ego such that his inner light could flow forth freely. Jesus wasn't pointing at his flesh or ego as truth, but rather the primal spirit within all. Harmony with this primordial light aligns one's will with the eternal life force and so nobody can come to actualize their eternal nature without becoming empty of self-nature).

Dear Strw Dog,
Very Well said. Thanks.

 

[John Martin]

You were saying so and didn't seem to notice.

('Way'...as in method.....as in discipline.

Other prophets have done the same....the words may have been different.

The way to heaven....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I doubt entry into heaven is done by less).

Dear Thief,
The word 'way' can be understood different ways. Way can be a method or discipline.
When Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, he is referring to his inner state. For me this inner state is the experience of the New Covenant, the Law written in the heart. In the First Covenant 'Law is the way, the truth and the life'. In the New Covenant, 'I am the way, the truth and life'. This happened to Jesus at the moment of his baptism, where God writes the Law in his heart by saying who Jesus was, 'You are my beloved Son'. The way to enter into this state is repentance or rebirth. Rebirth is to transcend our ego and discover our image and likeness of God. 'The way' Jesus proposed to come to this state was not perfecting the ego but transcending the ego.'Unless your righteousness transcends that of the scribes and pharisees you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven'.

 

[Thief]

Dear Thief,
The word 'way' can be understood different ways. Way can be a method or discipline.
When Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, he is referring to his inner state. For me this inner state is the experience of the New Covenant, the Law written in the heart. In the First Covenant 'Law is the way, the truth and the life'. In the New Covenant, 'I am the way, the truth and life'. This happened to Jesus at the moment of his baptism, where God writes the Law in his heart by saying who Jesus was, 'You are my beloved Son'. The way to enter into this state is repentance or rebirth. Rebirth is to transcend our ego and discover our image and likeness of God. 'The way' Jesus proposed to come to this state was not perfecting the ego but transcending the ego.'Unless your righteousness transcends that of the scribes and pharisees you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven'.

Yeah well.....some of those lines are not real sharp.
Maybe you noticed....

Born again might not be an event dealt in this life.

Jesus may have participated in baptism.....But He did not baptize others.

And transcending the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees might take you AWAY FROM scripture.

 

[John Martin]

Yeah well.....some of those lines are not real sharp.
Maybe you noticed....

(Born again might not be an event dealt in this life.

Jesus may have participated in baptism.....But He did not baptize others.

And transcending the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees might take you AWAY FROM scripture.

)

Dear Thief,
thank you very much for your post
(Born again might not be an event dealt in this life)
. Jesus told Nicodemus, 'Unless you are born again you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. If 'born again' is not an event dealt in this life, why did Jesus ask Nicodemus to be born again?

(Jesus may have participated in baptism.....But He did not baptize others).

There is an external baptism and internal baptism. External baptism is a symbol, either what has already within or what one hopes to happen. Internal baptism is something everyone has to grow through, like a child comes out of the womb. It is a spiritual birth. Jesus cannot force this happen. Everyone has to grow sufficiently so that the birthing process happens naturally and spontaneously.

And transcending the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees might take you AWAY FROM scripture.

Jesus said,' it is written in your Law but I say unto you..'

Had Jesus gone away from the scripture?

 

[chinu]

Chinu,
I can say by the grace of God I have tasted what it means otherwise I would not expressed the way I express it. Thanks

Its not the answer to my question, Martin.

 

[John Martin]

Martin, have you reached to that level of consciousness ? [/quote

Chinu,
yes, I have experienced that level of consciousness and try to live that vision in my daily life.
These are the questions which are not answered directly for being understood as presumptuous.

 

[chinu]

yes, I have experienced that level of consciousness and try to live that vision in my daily life.

Martin, what is the difference in your life now, as compare to before you experienced all this ?