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Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but throug

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by John Martin, May 2, 2013.

  1. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    673
    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.( New American Standard Bible). This statement of Jesus has been interpreted to mean that Jesus Christ is the only way to God or true way to God
    Interestingly here Jesus equates 'the way' with truth and the life.
    This interpretation makes Christianity an exclusive religion and presents Jesus as a kind of spiritual colonizer. It is a very difficult statement for the inter-religious dialogue.

    Are there any different ways of interpreting this statement of Jesus?
     
    Onkara and Quagmire like this.
  2. Thorbjorn

    Thorbjorn Ek em Þórsmaðr Staff Member Premium Member

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    Ásatrú
    Absolutely. One way, my particular take is that Jesus is saying no one can know God unless they listen to his (Jesus's) teaching about God. It is because the Jews of the time lost sight of what God really is, and what God expects. It addresses the time and place he was teaching. It does not say to me that if you don't believe in Jesus as God or the son of God, you will be condemned to hell (a later church con-kook-tion). Jesus's teachings bring you to God. Krishna, in the Bhagavad Gita 1,000 years earlier, teaches us how to reach Him also. Very similar teachings.
     
  3. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    Well clearly people went to the father in Moses´s(pbuh) time by following Moses(pbuh) so what he is saying is that you should follow him and nothing else.

    My questions is how do you know Jesus(pbuh) said those things?
     
  4. SageTree

    SageTree Spiritual Friend Staff Member Premium Member

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    "Those who attune their way to my Way, will Experience the Way of the Divine"

    Jesus' Way is the Perfect Way..... but is he the only Teacher to teach this Attuning to Divine Ways?
     
  5. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    Dear Sage Tree,
    Thank you so much for your post. For me also It does not say that if you don't believe in Jesus as God or the son of God, you will be condemned to hell. I feel at home with you intuitions. I do not consider that he is the only teacher who said what he said. My only intuition is his experience of God has happened in a specific social, political conditions. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  6. SageTree

    SageTree Spiritual Friend Staff Member Premium Member

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    And you label yourself as a Christian?

    If this verse is true, as it's being held here, is there any use in conversion at all?
     
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  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    No, he doesn't. He says he's all those things, but if he was equating them, the passage would read something like "I am the way, which is the truth and the life"

    Of course. The passage can be taken two different ways:

    - if someone doesn't have Jesus, then he won't get to the Father.
    - if someone has found the Father, then you can be sure that Jesus was involved somehow.

    The second interpretation is better for inter-religious dialogue, although it's still chauvinistic: the idea that all godly people are Christians in their own way is offensive in the same way as that line in Full Metal Jacket: "We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every g*** there is an American trying to get out."
     
  8. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    673
    Scholars may not be certain if these words spoken by Jesus or put by his disciples in the mouth of Jesus. What I want to try is whether these statement has any relevance for our spiritual life today and also if it has any universal value.
    The teaching of Christ was not exactly the teaching of Moses. He accepted Moses teachings and told people to follow them. But he also invited people to grow deeper in relationship with God. it seems that he made statements which invited the anger of the spiritual leaders of his time. He claimed he was the son of God and even said 'the Father( God) and I are one'.( I consider the expressions 'the Son of God' and 'Father', more metaphorical than metaphysical) These statements are blasphemous to his spiritual tradition. He seems to have said that he has come to fulfil the Law of Moses? The questions is whether Jesus just repeated the teaching of Moses or was he inviting people to grow into deeper relationship with God? He told Nicodemus,'unless you are born again you cannot enter into the kingdom of God'. Nicodemus was following the Law of Moses. But it seems that he was in crisis.It seems that there were some spiritual questions in him so he came to meet to Jesus in the night: Then Jesus told him that he had come out of his present stage and move into an higher or deeper relationship with God.Jesus said, the wind blows where it wills but you do not know from where it comes and you do not know to where it goes. It is like this who is born of the spirit'.
    My suggestion is when Jesus said' I am the way, the truth and the life. He was referring to a state of consciousness which is freed from the past and lives in inner freedom, where God's indwelling presence is experienced. No one can come to this state of inner freedom unless people grow into this state as Jesus did. It does not mean that one has to believe in Jesus as the Son of God or one with God, or the only way, truth and life, but to enter into the state that Jesus entered. I am very pleased that Sage Tree suggested the same. The question is:is Jesus the only one who had this experience? I do not hold this view and it is not necessary. The importance is to grow into God and not to hold views on someone,except if they help for our spiritual growth.
     
  9. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Religion:
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    Thankyou for this interesting thread!

    Ah...... John...... John's Gospel seems to repeat this 'I am the'.... style. Here are some examples:-

    John {6:35} And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life:

    John {9:5} As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

    John {10:7} Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep

    John {10:9} I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved,

    John {10:11} I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep

    John {10:14} I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep,] and am known of mine.

    John {11:25} Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
    believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    John {14:6} Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John {15:1} I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

    My questions are:-

    Who wrote this gospel?
    When was this gospel written?
     
  10. Breathe

    Breathe Bitter Edgelord :^)

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    Religion:
    Complicated but fairly consistent
    "No one meets God but through these spiritual truths I {Jesus} teach."
    And what are those teachings? "Love God above all, and your neighbour as yourself."
     
    SageTree likes this.
  11. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    And you label yourself as a Christian?

    If this verse is true, as it's being held here, is there any use in conversion at all?

    For me today religious label has a functional value just my name has a functional value. I wish to say I follow the path of Christ to God. if I want to go London and take Air India, I say I am flying by Air india but I do not say I am Air India.

    Today I do not believe converting people to a religion we must point people towards God. Religious affiliations have to be provisional and not absolute.
     
  12. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    673
    No, he doesn't. He says he's all those things, but if he was equating them, the passage would read something like "I am the way, which is the truth and the life"

    Thank you it makes sense.
     
  13. SageTree

    SageTree Spiritual Friend Staff Member Premium Member

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    Are these really questions, or foreshadowing of points you'll be making shortly.


    :hug:


    Either way.... am interested.

    :flower:
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integral Aperspectival

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    Religion:
    The same religion God is
    I was forming my thoughts in response when I read this. You and I see alike. It's tricky to wrap ones mind around, especially in light of traditional doctrines, but when Jesus speaks thus he is speaking as that realized incarnation, not a separate self, a separate egoic "Jesus", but rather as "the express image of God". When that place of nondual realization occurs, it is to say that in our humanity the only way to union with God is to become that ourselves. "I am the Way", is to become Christ ourselves. Then I or you will say "I am the Way" as well, not in our separate ego-self, but our divine Identity. "I and my Father are One,".... "I pray they may be one even as we are one".

    To me, to call Jesus brother is far higher than calling him Lord in a subordinate relationship. To me, that is the goal of spiritual development. To become God incarnate within our conscious mind and body in the world.
     
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  15. SageTree

    SageTree Spiritual Friend Staff Member Premium Member

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    Are you familiar with Theosis?
     
  16. John Martin

    John Martin New Member

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    Is it possible that we can speak of Truth to the others without mentioning the name of Jesus?

    Now a days I feel to say more of the contribution of Jesus to the spiritual evolution of humanity rather than speaking of him in an exclusive way. Humanity has been searching for Truth thousands of years before Christ. For example when Jesus Christ said 'The Father and I are one' he was not telling anything new( it was new to the his spiritual tradition). Five hundred years before Jesus,the Upanishad sages have already said that Ayatman brahman, atman is brahman. Jesus also said,I have not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law. I take this Law not only Jewish Law but all the spiritual discoveries that happened before him. So we need to ask the question; what was the spiritual contribution of Jesus 2000 years ago to the spiritual evolution of human consciousness? £We should not look at him in isolation but in relationship with all the spiritual masters up to his time.
     
  17. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integral Aperspectival

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    Religion:
    The same religion God is
    I am not.... or should I say in another context I AM? :)
     
  18. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integral Aperspectival

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    Religion:
    The same religion God is
    This is how I have come to see him, as I have slowly come to see him through my own spiritual growth. The more one is "like Christ", the less Christ looks like what we assumed.
     
  19. SageTree

    SageTree Spiritual Friend Staff Member Premium Member

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    Yes.

    I think if we speak about Truth + Jesus we are speaking about Jesus.
    Perhaps to some Jesus is synonymous with Truth, for many it is not.

    So why not just act in Truth, and let the name of Jesus come later, if someone asks you for your inspiration?

    "Preach the Gospel always. When necessary use words."

    You know this quote?

    So.... yes or no?

    :p
     
  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integral Aperspectival

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    3,086
    Religion:
    The same religion God is
    René Descartes was in a restaurant having a meal. The waiter approached him at the end of it and inquired, "Will you be having any desert this evening Mr. Descartes?". To which he replied, "I think not", then vanished.
     
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