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Jesus only Started one Church
- Thread starter KW
- Start date
Its true there already was church before Paul' arrival.
KW
Well-Known Member
It is a matter of faith. The Church gives absolution as it was authorized to do by Christ. You don't change colors or grow wings, but I feel different, for what that's worth.
KW
Well-Known Member
Facts?Ill tell you a fact.
You have only done an ad hominem. Probably because you dont know your own scripture very well. So now I will address you since you have addressed me and nothing else.
The fact is, scholars believe that John 1:1 is a redaction. It is also a copy of Philo's Logos. It is called the prologue, and the rhetoric according to these scholars speaks of a concept that was redacted, and is written by a different author to other parts of the Gospel of John. Speaks of a concept never spoken of prior to that in any other Gospel.
So of course I dont trust it. And that's why Jesus could not have been eternal. He was human.
There are lots of issues there and this is your personal belief, so I understand that you might get a bit agitated. But doing Tu Quoques without honestly addressing someones point shows lack of knowledge or character. If I was just cutting and pasting verses or something then your approach is justified IMO. But I didnt.
So now you can insult me, Islam, prophets or what ever you want because that's what you are aiming at.
Cheers.
Those aren't facts. Scholars make multiple claims. Which scholars? Muslim scholars?
Here are facts:
Muhammed married an 8 year old girl.
Muhammed had a woman killed for laughing at him.
Muhammed advocated violence and gained power through killing his enemies.
KW
Well-Known Member
Not accurate. The Catholic Church is the ancient Church. Eastern Christians who are now called Orthodox Christians were once united to the Catholic Church.
Here are some quotes from Eastern Patriarchs confirming their allegience to the successor of Peter:
St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387)
Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, 'Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty ...even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)
Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. (Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).
Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church. (Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)
Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople (466-516)
Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that 'such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible.' (Macedonius, Patr. Graec. 108: 360a (Theophan. Chronogr. pp. 234-346 seq.)
John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)
The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)
Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (450)
A native of Antioch, Theodoret ruled under the Antiochean Patriarch.
'For as I,' He says, 'did not despise thee when tossed, so be thou a support to thy brethren in trouble, and the help by which thou was saved do thou thyself impart to others, and exhort them not while they are tottering, but raise them up in their peril. For this reason I suffer thee also to slip, but do not permit thee to fall, thus through thee gaining steadfastness for those who are tossed.' So this great pillar supported the tossing and sinking world, and permitted it not to fall entirely and gave it back stability, having been ordered to feed God's sheep. (Theodoret, Oratio de Caritate in J. P. Minge, ed., Partrologiae Curses Completus: Series Graeca).
I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds. (Theodoret, Tom. iv. Epist. cxvi. Renato, p. 1197).
KW
Well-Known Member
So for 1800 years after Christ there was no Church?
KW
Well-Known Member
Orthodoxy.
Here are a few quotes for you to consider. I can get many more. You can see that the early Patriarchs were Catholic and were united with the successor of Peter.
Here are some quotes from Eastern Patriarchs confirming their allegience to the successor of Peter:
St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387)
Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, 'Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty ...even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)
Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. (Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).
Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church. (Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)
Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople (466-516)
Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that 'such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible.' (Macedonius, Patr. Graec. 108: 360a (Theophan. Chronogr. pp. 234-346 seq.)
John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)
The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)
Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (450)
A native of Antioch, Theodoret ruled under the Antiochean Patriarch.
'For as I,' He says, 'did not despise thee when tossed, so be thou a support to thy brethren in trouble, and the help by which thou was saved do thou thyself impart to others, and exhort them not while they are tottering, but raise them up in their peril. For this reason I suffer thee also to slip, but do not permit thee to fall, thus through thee gaining steadfastness for those who are tossed.' So this great pillar supported the tossing and sinking world, and permitted it not to fall entirely and gave it back stability, having been ordered to feed God's sheep. (Theodoret, Oratio de Caritate in J. P. Minge, ed., Partrologiae Curses Completus: Series Graeca).
I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds. (Theodoret, Tom. iv. Epist. cxvi. Renato, p. 1197).
KW
Well-Known Member
KW
Well-Known Member
That's true to an extent. All Christian churches are said to subsist within the Catholic Church, but are not all are in full communion.
The Chaldeon Church is in full communion with the Catholic Church.
KW
Well-Known Member
KW
Well-Known Member
firedragon
Veteran Member
No.
Ill tell you what. You dont know the Bible. Zilch. So all you could is just say random things about other peoples religions because you dont know your own. So Ill show you your own tactic. Let me show you how cut and paste tactics work. Okay?
So this is no normal debate tactic. This is meant only for ignorant cut and paste type artists like you.
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )
KW
Well-Known Member
No.
Ill tell you what. You dont know the Bible. Zilch. So all you could is just say random things about other peoples religions because you dont know your own. So Ill show you your own tactic. Let me show you how cut and paste tactics work. Okay?
So this is no normal debate tactic. This is meant only for ignorant cut and paste type artists like you.
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )
I thought we were talking about Muhammed and Jesus.
Those sound more like Muhammed to me.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Nah. You brought in Muhammed and things you have no clue of because you dont know your own Bible. So that's the reason for this cut and paste. This is your methodology.
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 )
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 )
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 )
KW
Well-Known Member
Wow. I struck a nerve. You still haven't refuted the facts I posted about Muhammed and I know why. You can't.
You came on a thread discussing Christianity then denied the divinity of Christ. When the truth about Muhammed comes up you panic.
**mod edit**
Last edited by a moderator:
rational experiences
Veteran Member
When Rome ignored the gained fallout stigmata human notification didn't they by document murder the petitioners who witnessed then petitioned Rome...to stop temple pyramid sciences?
Yes.
So humans dying sacrificed know the heavenly mass changes its state to cause unnatural biology death?
Yes.
Hence when holy mother void space womb activated....earthquake sky dark huge rendering above attack.... saved the life of humanity but not her son.
Took the above sacrifice down to ground stone spirit opened gases alight left. Then removed it above?
Yes.
As the body gas mass immaculate gas been burning already for hot gas Christ burn fall. Humans sacrificed biology hot gas Hot water?
Yes.
So the body gone and removed to have caused the term sacrifice. Yet mother holy space vacuum voided the attack. Stopped stigmata yet life was gone? Taken down by holy mother vacuum void.
Yes.
Sacrificed already.
Unhealthy life survived.
So Rome no Vatican then rebuilt temple science continued until hot burning comets came swiftly burnt Rome era Nero?
Yes.
Satan return not a wandering star asteroid. By earth science causes overheating earths space cycle. Earth moves away yet comes back.
Asteroids passing heat in hot earth space activate burning return to earth position.
Non stop repeated brain burning attacks caused them to build the church a while after. Then new testimonials forbidding God sciences was established.
When church had been built new testimonials written. Agreed brother communal law. 0AD time revelations written as proof. Evidence man's nuclear science caused future life attacks.
Just as human memory states.
By the experience I was taught science never owned god as god is exact one state only cooled cold.
No man is God exact. Only one word defined by movement G spiral O DD to OO...God above.
No science name of man allowed was the teaching taught agreement don't look back at the old.
Hence human ego did not agree to let go of old advice only concluded Jesus terms taught new law in society. Agreed and notated their agreement in their law documents.
Theme. If I don't remember the old how can I believe the new?
Human proof you never allow nor support the new.
Baha'i update teacher murdered. Taught the future always brought new education's in humans spiritual healing conscious evolution.
To be human advised of human wrongs.
Hebrew ignored Rome as they stated the lesson had already been advised to men about nuclear sciences.
Yet knew the event was real.
Yes.
So humans dying sacrificed know the heavenly mass changes its state to cause unnatural biology death?
Yes.
Hence when holy mother void space womb activated....earthquake sky dark huge rendering above attack.... saved the life of humanity but not her son.
Took the above sacrifice down to ground stone spirit opened gases alight left. Then removed it above?
Yes.
As the body gas mass immaculate gas been burning already for hot gas Christ burn fall. Humans sacrificed biology hot gas Hot water?
Yes.
So the body gone and removed to have caused the term sacrifice. Yet mother holy space vacuum voided the attack. Stopped stigmata yet life was gone? Taken down by holy mother vacuum void.
Yes.
Sacrificed already.
Unhealthy life survived.
So Rome no Vatican then rebuilt temple science continued until hot burning comets came swiftly burnt Rome era Nero?
Yes.
Satan return not a wandering star asteroid. By earth science causes overheating earths space cycle. Earth moves away yet comes back.
Asteroids passing heat in hot earth space activate burning return to earth position.
Non stop repeated brain burning attacks caused them to build the church a while after. Then new testimonials forbidding God sciences was established.
When church had been built new testimonials written. Agreed brother communal law. 0AD time revelations written as proof. Evidence man's nuclear science caused future life attacks.
Just as human memory states.
By the experience I was taught science never owned god as god is exact one state only cooled cold.
No man is God exact. Only one word defined by movement G spiral O DD to OO...God above.
No science name of man allowed was the teaching taught agreement don't look back at the old.
Hence human ego did not agree to let go of old advice only concluded Jesus terms taught new law in society. Agreed and notated their agreement in their law documents.
Theme. If I don't remember the old how can I believe the new?
Human proof you never allow nor support the new.
Baha'i update teacher murdered. Taught the future always brought new education's in humans spiritual healing conscious evolution.
To be human advised of human wrongs.
Hebrew ignored Rome as they stated the lesson had already been advised to men about nuclear sciences.
Yet knew the event was real.
KW
Well-Known Member
Is this a real person or a computer generated response?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
NASA are you a real human in biology owning controlling using computer by human choice as humans ... your biology mind control life's AI attack by machine causes?
And drown out my biologies ability to hear myself speak yet I'm still alive too?
Are you that biological ignorant.... I'm not your transmitters that machines use!
AI speaking is all human recorded incidents already.