Jesus is not God

[Ellen Brown]

It is my understanding that men can't see God since he doesn't really have any particular form and he is metaphysical, so he's outside of this physical world.
Jesus was just one part of that God in human flesh but remember that he still reigned supreme when Jesus was on earth, meaning that Jesus was just a manifestation of God but wasn't all of what God is because it's impossible for humans to see.
In Jesus we saw for the first an only time a physical manifestation of God in this world but it doesn't mean he is all of what God is because if that were true he would have had to exist only in Jesus at that moment however he was reigning and being everywhere as God the Father.

The Creator, God, G_d, or Allah SWT being who he is can be anything he wants to be, or appear any way he wants to. I believe that putting rules around what He can do is rebellion and inspired by satan.

 

[Octavio Siepi]

The Creator, God, G_d, or Allah SWT being who he is can be anything he wants to be, or appear any way he wants to. I believe that putting rules around what He can do is rebellion and inspired by satan.

Ok, if that's the case then the question of your post doesn't make sense since God would be able to allow people to see him without dying.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Ok, if that's the case then the question of your post doesn't make sense since God would be able to allow people to see him without dying.

Well, study the deeds of Moses closely when his face shown and his hair was white. I'm not spoon feeding you.

 

[steveb1]

I don't intend to debate on this. What I state is my belief, and others are welcome to theirs, and I will defend their right to their beliefs.

In the OT, when Moses first encounters God, he is told that he can not look upon God and live. Later on, God allows Moses to see him and he comes out all bleached.

Yes, I know that in the NT Jesus says that "I and the Father are one", but I think that means, in context, that the Father and he agree. If Jesus were God, then no one could have looked at him, and people DID look at him, even after the resurrection.

I think that the "Jesus as God" idea came out of the folly of what became the early Catholic Church.

I'm not going to dig all the references out. We all claim to be out of diapers, so you can do it yourself.

Even in the NT Jesus is not held to be "God" in any unambiguous sense.
At most, Jesus is equated to or identified with a preexistent heavenly "Son", and each canonical Gospel attests that Jesus himself identified with Daniel's heavenly, cloud-dwelling Son of Man, and John's Gospel agreed with Philo of Alexandria's view of the Logos, which/whom Philo said was a preexistent heavenly angel, called "a god", who was the designated agent of creation.

Thus Philo, Paul, John and the NT generally share a very high christology, but stop far short of calling Jesus a second person in a Trinity. That conceptualization came much later with the church councils.

 

[JohnnyMan]

I don't intend to debate on this. What I state is my belief, and others are welcome to theirs, and I will defend their right to their beliefs.

In the OT, when Moses first encounters God, he is told that he can not look upon God and live. Later on, God allows Moses to see him and he comes out all bleached.

Yes, I know that in the NT Jesus says that "I and the Father are one", but I think that means, in context, that the Father and he agree. If Jesus were God, then no one could have looked at him, and people DID look at him, even after the resurrection.

I think that the "Jesus as God" idea came out of the folly of what became the early Catholic Church.

I'm not going to dig all the references out. We all claim to be out of diapers, so you can do it yourself.

Hi!
I just wanted to reach out and share some information to argue your point. I found an article by a professional in this area that answers "Is Jesus God?" check it out if you want to I will leave the link below. Is Jesus God? - Good News Christian News

 

[shunyadragon]

Hi!
I just wanted to reach out and share some information to argue your point. I found an article by a professional in this area that answers "Is Jesus God?" check it out if you want to I will leave the link below. Is Jesus God? - Good News Christian News

This a rather selective biased view of the traditional Christian belief 'Jesus is God,' and neglecting the Biblical quotes by Jesus that he is not God. Yes, Jesus could have performed the miracles cited through the power of God as Jesus Himself testifies without being God incarnate.

 

[Rival]

Hi!
I just wanted to reach out and share some information to argue your point. I found an article by a professional in this area that answers "Is Jesus God?" check it out if you want to I will leave the link below. Is Jesus God? - Good News Christian News

Ellen Brown is no longer on this forum, just so you are aware.

 

[rrobs]

Then why did they want to stone him for blasphemy after he said "I and my Father are one" if he just meant "Me and dad agree?" And now?

John 17:21,

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
​

Does this make all Christians God? Personally, I think not.

The next several verses after John 10:30 reveal some interesting truths.

1. They understood Jesus to be a man. Clearly that is what the Jews, God's chosen people, understood Jesus to be. They believed Yahweh was the only God.
   
2. They understood the word "god" differently than we do today in the modern West. Even Strong's Concordance will bear out the fact that the word "god" simply meant anyone with power and authority. In their culture the first born son was considered virtually equal with his father, but that certainly didn't make the son his own father.
3. Jesus called them gods because they had received the word of God. That certainly gave the Jews power and authority. They misused it, but that is another story.
   
4. Jesus himself said he was the son of God. I think it fair to say he understood a son to be a different person than his father.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hi!
I just wanted to reach out and share some information to argue your point. I found an article by a professional in this area that answers "Is Jesus God?" check it out if you want to I will leave the link below. Is Jesus God? - Good News Christian News

Hello.
Your link only highlights Jesus’ power, which He received from God. The author then says that these miracles He performed, reveals His Godship.

That’s based on a false premise! If we equate the performance of miracles to prove Deity, then Moses was God, too. So was Elijah...or Elisha.

We know that’s not true! These men simply were given power by Jehovah.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Since No man can see God and live, then Jesus is No visible God - John 1:18; 1 John 4:12; Exodus 33:20.
Even the heavenly resurrected ascended-to-heaven still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12.

Even before doubting Thomas spoke, Jesus earlier already said the words found at John 20:17.
Often on TV in front of a reporter a person exclaims, "Oh, my God" and we know the reporter is Not God.
So, Thomas did Not have to be directly address Jesus as his God, just as the woman of 1 Kings 3:26 did Not mean the king was Lord God. Also, both words Lord and God are titles - Psalms 110.

Veiled in flesh the godhead he. Jesus has both a human nature and a divine nature.

It is like God covering the face of Moses so as to not look on God's face, God's glory and die so God let Moses see his goodness, portrayed by God's back.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Veiled in flesh the godhead he. Jesus has both a human nature and a divine nature.

You may believe that. That doesn't make it true.

 

[whirlingmerc]

You may believe that. That doesn't make it true.

If you are on a train you think is going to New York City but it's really going to Philadelphia, it's going where it's going despite what you believe..... true... true... and it applies to unbelief as well. Not believing Jesus is Messiah and God incarnate does not make it not true.

The tabernacle of Moses had both precious metals and common materials like woods and animal skins, in fact the outside was animal skins, the inside had God's presence. That goes along with "Veiled in flesh the godhead He", fully man and fully God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Veiled in flesh the godhead he. Jesus has both a human nature and a divine nature.
It is like God covering the face of Moses so as to not look on God's face, God's glory and die so God let Moses see his goodness, portrayed by God's back.

Of course Jesus has a divine nature because the pre-human heavenly Jesus was in Heaven before his divine God sent Jesus to Earth for us.
After his God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave, then Jesus had his divine spirit body back.
So, as being from Heaven made Jesus divine does Not have to mean Jesus does Not have a divine God over him.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If you are on a train you think is going to New York City but it's really going to Philadelphia, it's going where it's going despite what you believe..... true... true... and it applies to unbelief as well. Not believing Jesus is Messiah and God incarnate does not make it not true.

And believing he is the messiah doesn't make it so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And believing he is the messiah doesn't make it so.

...and Not believing he is Messiah doesn't make it so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

...and Not believing he is Messiah doesn't make it so.

So what we ultimately have to do is go back to the Tanakh, the Hebrew Scriptures, and look for what God says about the Messiah, which is very little but quite clear and easy to understand. Then we check to see if a candidate fulfilled those requirements. If he did, we embrace him. If he didn't, we run far away. Here is an example of three requirements:
1. He will usher in an era of peace between the nations.
2. He will bring all the Jews out of diaspora back to the land of Israel.
3. He will be "David," meaning he will rule Israel from Jerusalem.

So far no messianic candidate has done those things. Run.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So what we ultimately have to do is go back to the Tanakh, the Hebrew Scriptures, and look for what God says about the Messiah, which is very little but quite clear and easy to understand. Then we check to see if a candidate fulfilled those requirements. If he did, we embrace him. If he didn't, we run far away. Here is an example of three requirements:
1. He will usher in an era of peace between the nations.
2. He will bring all the Jews out of diaspora back to the land of Israel.
3. He will be "David," meaning he will rule Israel from Jerusalem.
So far no messianic candidate has done those things. Run.

Very interesting reply ^ above ^.
I do agree an 'era of peace' but for me aka 1,000-year reign of Messiah over earth.
In connection to Jesus 'all the Jews' would include 'spiritual Jews ' -Romans 2:28-29
At Pentecost earthly Jerusalem became a heavenly Jerusalem - Galatians 4:26
In other words, a heavenly Jerusalem would now be the seat of government over earth.
As far as David, Isaiah 32 writes about coming princes to rule or govern in judgement.
Princes in all the Earth - Psalms 45:16
Ezekiel names one of those future princes as being David at Ezekiel 34:24.
These last days of badness on Earth will climax in 'healing ' for earth's nations - Isaiah 35th chapter, Rev. 22:2.
We are nearing the time when the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security... " but that will only prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation before Messiah ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The tabernacle of Moses had both precious metals and common materials like woods and animal skins, in fact the outside was animal skins, the inside had God's presence. That goes along with "Veiled in flesh the godhead He", fully man and fully God.

Since God had No beginning as per Psalms 90:2 and pre-human Jesus had a beginning - Revelation 3:14 B,
then only God was ' before ' the beginning, and pre-human Jesus was Not ' before the beginning, but was ' in ' the beginning, or 'in the start' of creation.
Plus, pre-human Jesus did Not send himself to Earth but his God sent Jesus to Earth.
Dead Jesus did Not resurrect himself.
After ascending to heaven Jesus appeared in front of his God as per Hebrews 9:24.
Also, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

 

[PearlSeeker]

1. He will usher in an era of peace between the nations.
2. He will bring all the Jews out of diaspora back to the land of Israel.
3. He will be "David," meaning he will rule Israel from Jerusalem.

So far no messianic candidate has done those things. Run.

Remember when people demanded a king like other nations. What did God say to Samuel?

They have not rejected you; they have rejected me as their king.
​

What will be the promised land, God's people and Jerusalem?

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness. ​

 

[Guitar's Cry]

For me, Jesus is God in the way that we are all God. From a mystical perspective, Jesus understood his connection with the Universe.

He references Psalm 82:6 in that chapter, which says that we are all gods, as sons of God. This is not so different from the Hindu concept of Brahma.