Jesus is not god

[Unveiled Artist]

They cannot be the same. That defies biblical and common sense logic. Jesus shares His Father's divinity. I say His Father separate because that is how Jesus emphasis His place in relation to His Father (God). He never said He is His Father. He says He is the Son of Man. God say's that Jesus is His Son. Neither of them say "Jesus is God."

If God is Jesus then He there is no separation between the Father and Son. If that be the case, then why use "Father and Son" when there is only one Spirit? Why would Jesus say 'look to the Father' when He is the Father?

Understand where I'm getting at? Yes, we are all spirits in these bodies. I am not you and you are not me but we share the same spirit because we are interconnected. (The same as God and Jesus). I am not you because we have different characteristics of our spirit that makes us unique (God being the Father while Jesus being human and His Son).

It is not a bad thing to say Jesus is not God. I'm saying its illogical to assume He is because He is divine. The Father can make anyone divine but they can never replace Him.

Jesus is God come in the flesh as a Son.

Jesus always had the Holy Spirit, because it is his Spirit.

Jesus is the one who gives the Holy Spirit.

There is no difference from God and Jesus. They are exactly the same.

 

[JustWondering]

I took the beam out of my eye, and now I am trying to help you get the beam out of your eye.

I have long since come to the conclusion that Christianity is a false, fabricated religion. Jesus is not god. He was an ancient cult leader who's legend and teachings were used to create countless more cults from his death to this day. If you have something to refute my claims that doesn't involve bible verses (since I do not consider the bible a reliable authoritative source of information on anything) or passing judgment on me I'd love to hear and debate about it. If not, then have a nice day.

 

[Yes]

They cannot be the same. That defies biblical and common sense logic. Jesus shares His Father's divinity. I say His Father separate because that is how Jesus emphasis His place in relation to His Father (God). He never said He is His Father. He says He is the Son of Man. God say's that Jesus is His Son. Neither of them say "Jesus is God."

If God is Jesus then He there is no separation between the Father and Son. If that be the case, then why use "Father and Son" when there is only one Spirit? Why would Jesus say 'look to the Father' when He is the Father?

Understand where I'm getting at? Yes, we are all spirits in these bodies. I am not you and you are not me but we share the same spirit because we are interconnected. (The same as God and Jesus). I am not you because we have different characteristics of our spirit that makes us unique (God being the Father while Jesus being human and His Son).

It is not a bad thing to say Jesus is not God. I'm saying its illogical to assume He is because He is divine. The Father can make anyone divine but they can never replace Him.

Jesus is the Spirit. That is what the scriptures say. Believe the scriptures.

Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. That scripture SAYS Jesus is the Spirit.

 

[Ingledsva]

You are wrong. The Bible even says plainly that Jesus is the Spirit.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is a life giving Spirit, see 1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Did you read that scripture? That scripture says Jesus is a SPIRIT.

ING - No proof of this being Jesus - what so ever!

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This scripture says the Spirit gives life; see 2 Corinthians 3:6. Jesus gives life! John 5:21.


ING - LOL! 2 Corinthians 3:6 has nothing to do with Jesus and spirit.

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

John 5:21 same thing - not about spirit, but raising the dead, and you keep leaving out 5:19!


Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


*

Read this scripture:

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

That scripture SAYS the Lord is the Spirit.


ING - Obviously - this is not talking about Jesus as Holy Spirit, but the spirit of the law, which he brings, rather than the letter.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

*


Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

ING - LOL! I'm not even going to attempt to translate those later mixed up Revelation verses.

*

The sword of the Spirit is the word of God see Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

The SWORD is the Word of God. Jesus is the word of God. See John 1:1.

ING - This has already been explained by others. God's "word" is expressed in Jesus. He is NOT the word.

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The SWORD is Jesus the WORD OF GOD.

Jesus’ name is the Word of God, see Revelation 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Jesus is the Word of God, and Jesus is the sword.

Jesus is the sword of the Holy Spirit. Revelation 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

Jesus is the Rider and the sword is coming from him.

The Rider is Jesus, and the sword is Jesus, and the sword belongs to the Rider, the sword belongs to the Spirit.

The Rider is the Spirit.

Jesus is the Rider. Jesus is the Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God; Jesus is the Sword.

Jesus is the expression of the word of God - he is not a part of God.

Rev 19:12 and his eyes blazed with fire, and on his head were many crowns: and he had a name written, that no man knew but himself.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with an outer-garment stained with blood, and his calling, the authority of the Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, being dressed in fine linen, white and pure

Rev 19:15 And also before him preceded a sharp double edged sword,, that he should thereby proceed to smite the nations: and he shall rule them with an iron rod: and he shall trample them underfoot as in a winepress: and his wrath is the punishment of God Almighty.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

How many times have I said that reading the Bible is not enough? How many times have I said to know if what Jesus says is true you must obey what he says?

You are hilarious.

If we don't believe your myth, we haven't obeyed enough, or read enough, etc.

Do you believe the Qur'an? What? Haven't you obeyed enough to understand?

*

 

[Yes]

You are hilarious.

If we don't believe your myth, we haven't obeyed enough, or read enough, etc.

Do you believe the Qur'an? What? Haven't you obeyed enough to understand?

*

You are the hilarious one. You speak as if you have knowledge and experience just because you read the Bible.

Oh and, by the way, Jesus is the one who said you have to obey him to know the truth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I said, we all are spirits. "and" we are not each other. From what you have given me so far, Jesus is a Spirit--okay, I see that. What I am saying is He is not God. He is not the Father. I'm not saying He isn't a Spirit--we are all Spirits. When I say He is not God, I'm saying He share's the Father's divinity.

Think of it, as a Christian, would it be more grand to share in your Father's divinity than you actually being the Father? It's like a marriage. They are both united.

Jesus is the Spirit. That is what the scriptures say. Believe the scriptures.

Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. That scripture SAYS Jesus is the Spirit.

 

[Yes]

Jesus is the expression of the word of God - he is not a part of God.

Rev 19:12 and his eyes blazed with fire, and on his head were many crowns: and he had a name written, that no man knew but himself.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with an outer-garment stained with blood, and his calling, the authority of the Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, being dressed in fine linen, white and pure

Rev 19:15 And also before him preceded a sharp double edged sword,, that he should thereby proceed to smite the nations: and he shall rule them with an iron rod: and he shall trample them underfoot as in a winepress: and his wrath is the punishment of God Almighty.

*

I cannot even bring myself to read the mess you wrote. Too much lol'ing and just merely denying the scripotures.

 

[Ingledsva]

You are the hilarious one. You speak as if you have knowledge and experience just because you read the Bible.

Oh and, by the way, Jesus is the one who said you have to obey him to know the truth.

AGAIN! You are hilarious. The pot calling the kettle black. LOL!

*

 

[Yes]

I said, we all our spirits. "and" we are not each other. From what you have given me so far, Jesus is a Spirit--okay, I see that. What I am saying is He is not God. He is not the Father. I'm not saying He isn't a Spirit--we are all Spirits. When I say He is not God, I'm saying He share's the Father's divinity.

Think of it, as a Christian, would it be more grand to share in your Father's divinity than you actually being the Father? It's like a marriage. They are both united.

There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT.

Just believe the scriptures.

The Lord is the Spirit. That is scripture.

 

[Ingledsva]

I cannot even bring myself to read the mess you wrote. Too much lol'ing and just merely denying the scripotures.

Ah-Ha! LOL! Sure!

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT.

Just believe the scriptures.

The Lord is the Spirit. That is scripture.

If there is only One Spirit then why does Jesus refer to His Father separate from Himself? Why not tell His disciples, I am the Father and I am the Holy Spirit....rather than listen to the Father (pointing away from Himself) and I give you the Holy Spirit (aka the Pentecostal)?

They share divinity--they share One Spirit. That Spirit is God, if you like. They are completely different people.

Unless God is not the Father, I still don't understand how you can interpret scripture to say (an analogy) a chair is a table rather than saying the chair and the table share the same characteristics--wood BUT they are not each other.

I just don't understand the reasoning. Reading scripture, it just seems clear as day how the authors describe Jesus nature to be compared to His Father and the relationship that Jesus has with His Father.

 

[Yes]

If there is only One Spirit then why does Jesus refer to His Father separate from Himself? Why not tell His disciples, I am the Father and I am the Holy Spirit....rather than listen to the Father (pointing away from Himself) and I give you the Holy Spirit (aka the Pentecostal)?

Jesus says his words are Spirit. Jesus says when you see him you have seen the Father.

They share divinity--they share One Spirit. That Spirit is God, if you like. They are completely different people.

It is good that you see they have the same Spirit.

Unless God is not the Father, I still don't understand how you can interpret scripture to say (an analogy) a chair is a table rather than saying the chair and the table share the same characteristics--wood BUT they are not each other.

I really do not like to try to think up our own analogies.

I just don't understand the reasoning. Reading scripture, it just seems clear as day how the authors describe Jesus nature to be compared to His Father and the relationship that Jesus has with His Father.

Jesus is God come as a Son of Man.

I cannot understand how you do not think the Almighty God could come as a Son of Man if He wanted.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When I read "When you see me [Jesus] you see the Father" I say, because they share the same Spirit (divinity), because I am God's Son, you can see the Father in me.

A better analogy than a table and chair, is a parent and child. When you see a child especially as he gets older, you start seeing aspects of his parent in him. So when you see the child, you see the parent. "And" the child and parent are not each other.

Same as Jesus' relationship with His Father (translation of analogy):

Parent and child (Father and Son).

When you see the Son especially as He received His calling from His Father, you start seeing aspects of His parent (God the Father) in him. So when you see the Son, you see the Father. "And" the Son and Father are not each other.

If I were a parent I would expect that when people see my child they would see me in him.

Actually, that's not really an analogy. That's what I read in scripture. The relationship with Jesus and His Father is that of a Son and Father...and being that they share One Spirit of course they would be divine (or perfect if you like). The technicality of the matter is, they are not each other regardless of how much in Spirit they share.

--

And yes, Jesus says His Words are Spirit since the Words He speak of is not of His own but of His Father who is Spirit.

Jesus says his words are Spirit. Jesus says when you see him you have seen the Father.



It is good that you see they have the same Spirit.


I really do not like to try to think up our own analogies.


Jesus is God come as a Son of Man.

I cannot understand how you do not think the Almighty God could come as a Son of Man if He wanted.

 

[Yes]

When I read "When you see me [Jesus] you see the Father" I say, because they share the same Spirit (divinity), because I am God's Son, you can see the Father in me.

Jesus does not say it like that. Jesus says plainly that when you see him you have seen the Father.

A better analogy than a table and chair, is a parent and child. When you see a child especially as he gets older, you start seeing aspects of his parent in him. So when you see the child, you see the parent. "And" the child and parent are not each other.

If you raise a clone of yourself, would you introduce your clone as, "This is me", or would you say, "This is my son"?

Same as Jesus' relationship with His Father (translation of analogy):

Parent and child (Father and Son).

When you see the Son especially as He received His calling from His Father, you start seeing aspects of His parent (God the Father) in him. So when you see the Son, you see the Father. "And" the Son and Father are not each other.

They have the same Spirit.

Our children do not have our same spirit.

If I were a parent I would expect that when people see my child they would see me in him.

Actually, that's not really an analogy. That's what I read in scripture. The relationship with Jesus and His Father is that of a Son and Father...and being that they share One Spirit of course they would be divine (or perfect if you like). The technicality of the matter is, they are not each other regardless of how much in Spirit they share.

That is just strange. How you can acknowledge that they have the same Spirit, but still say Jesus is not God the Father.

Now, do you believe Jesus is God?

If you say yes, then you must believe that Jesus is the same as the Father, because the Father is God.

 

[Yes]

When you have seen me, you have seen the Father.

When you see the child, you have seen his parent.

And, they are not each other in both examples.

Read what Jesus says about himself in Revelation 1:18.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

In Revelation 1:8, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

That is Jesus speaking of himself.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Read this scripture.

Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

That is also, what God says about Himself in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

Read Revelations 22:13. Jesus is God.

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus does not say it like that. Jesus says plainly that when you see him you have seen the Father.

--When you see him you have seen the Father is the same as when you see a child you have seen his parent.

If you raise a clone of yourself, would you introduce your clone as, "This is me", or would you say, "This is my son"?

--Interesting question. Given the topic, I'd say this is my Son. Since we are not each other we are just clones of each other.

They have the same Spirit.

Our children do not have our same spirit.

--Yes, they do. Children share the same Spirit as their parents just as each of us share the same Spirit of life.
Children are a part of their parents.

They are not clones, though. They are their parents sons and daughters.

That is just strange. How you can acknowledge that they have the same Spirit, but still say Jesus is not God the Father.

--Same as I can say we both have the same spirit yet you and I have different characteristics that make both of us unique from each other.

Jesus sharing God's Spirit doesn't make Him God. That's an insult to say to Jesus that He replaces His own Father. When He told His disciples look to the Father, that is exactly what He meant..the Father is more important than anyone else--Jesus was doing His Father's Will not His own. Jesus pleaded with His Father to not die. He, as a human, felt pain on the cross as we see in the Passion.

His divine nature and sharing God's divinity since He is God's Son makes Him different; but that differences doesn't make Him His Father.

Now, do you believe Jesus is God?

--I see Him what scripture says, the Son of God. If I said Jesus is God, I'd be replacing Him with His Father. I'd be like, who was it, Paul or Peter who asked Jesus a question and Jesus says "why ask me, ask the Father." type of thing. What would Jesus say if we replaced Him for His Father when the whole OT He quotes from is His Father's Words "through Him."


If you say yes, then you must believe that Jesus is the same as the Father, because the Father is God.

--I don't see how the Father can be Jesus. I actually feel it's more powerful that Jesus shares God's divinity because when you are "married" to God, you are participating in Creation, doing your part at the same time, you are letting the Father do His.

If Jesus were God, Him dying on the Cross and rising again would make less sense. Unless, the Father was trying to show to others that He can become a Son of Himself, die on the Cross, and rise in the air and sit next to Himself (the right hand of Himself).

It doesn't negate Jesus' divinity. It just says one is not the other.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I had to re-edit what I typed; so, I replied to this post before you posted a reply to it. I deleted the original but its still there. Give me a minute to read what you wrote.

Read what Jesus says about himself in Revelation 1:18.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

In Revelation 1:8, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

That is Jesus speaking of himself.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Read this scripture.

Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

That is also, what God says about Himself in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

Read Revelations 22:13. Jesus is God.

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

His disciples called Jesus Lord God and so forth. Where is the Father in all this? Does He exist or is Jesus running the show? (no sarcasm intended)

Sounds like Jesus is speaking on behalf of His Father. Christianity says to reconcile with the Father you must go through Christ. So of course, the emphasis will be on Christ as Lord, Almighty, et cetera... that doesn't void that He sits at the right hand of His Father and how the gospels dictate the relationship (meaning more than one person) between Him and His Father. I read revelation years and years ago and never understood a word. I just know that its an insult to say Jesus is His own Father. I don't believe Jesus would care for that. You have to go "through" Him to get to the Father.

I think I mentioned earlier. If Jesus is the Father, there is no mediator between a Christian and God. There would only be the Father and the Christian. Since God sent His Son to act and speak on His behalf, that is not the case. So you must go through the Son to get to God. That makes them separate people but like in divinity or Spirit. Since, Jesus says, He gets His authority from His Father not of Himself.

It was once told to me that God the Son is not the same as God the Father. They said that God is the link between all three persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So they can be each other through God (not as a being) but as a being--the Father, each person is separate. If that makes sense?

Read what Jesus says about himself in Revelation 1:18.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

In Revelation 1:8, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

That is Jesus speaking of himself.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Read this scripture.

Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

That is also, what God says about Himself in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

Read Revelations 22:13. Jesus is God.

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[Yes]

--When you see him you have seen the Father is the same as when you see a child you have seen his parent.

No child says that.

--Interesting question. Given the topic, I'd say this is my Son. Since we are not each other we are just clones of each other.

A clone is supposed to be the person who was cloned.

They have the same Spirit.

Our children do not have our same spirit.

--Yes, they do. Children share the same Spirit as their parents just as each of us share the same Spirit of life.

You did not get that teaching from the Bible.

We all have our own spirit. Our spirit looks exactly like us...every hair and freckle.

--Same as I can say we both have the same spirit yet you and I have different characteristics that make both of us unique from each other.

We all have our own spirit.

Jesus sharing God's Spirit doesn't make Him God. That's an insult to say to Jesus that He replaces His own Father.

The Bible says that Jesus is God made visible. Jesus is not insulting his Father.

When He told His disciples look to the Father, that is exactly what He meant..the Father is more important than anyone else--Jesus was doing His Father's Will not His own. Jesus pleaded with His Father to not die. He, as a human, felt pain on the cross as we see in the Passion.

Jesus said when you see him---you see the Father.

His divine nature and sharing God's divinity since He is God's Son makes Him different; but that differences doesn't make Him His Father.

--I see Him what scripture says, the Son of God. If I said Jesus is God, I'd be replacing Him with His Father. I'd be like, who was it, Paul or Peter who asked Jesus a question and Jesus says "why ask me, ask the Father." type of thing. What would Jesus say if we replaced Him for His Father when the whole OT He quotes from is His Father's Words "through Him."

Jesus is God come as a Son of Man.