Jesus is God?

[Jeremy Mason]

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Yeshua is not God........
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The four gospels do not show him to be God at all and Rev. 3:12 disagrees with you...

God has a baby with a woman/Marry and that's not in the Gospels? your reading skills do not apply to the first chapter of Matthew:

The Birth of Jesus Christ

Matthew 1:18-25 (NIV)
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. 20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[d]—which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.



Did you get the part where Mary has no sex with Joseph and that God/Holy Spirit and Marry conceive Jesus. Notice Joseph is getting a heads-up in this manifestation of God. Is it coming into focus for you?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God has a baby with a woman/Marry and that's not in the Gospels? your reading skills do not apply to the first chapter of Matthew:

The Birth of Jesus Christ

Matthew 1:18-25 (NIV)
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. 20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[d]—which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.



Did you get the part where Mary has no sex with Joseph and that God/Holy Spirit and Marry conceive Jesus. Notice Joseph is getting a heads-up in this manifestation of God. Is it coming into focus for you?

Well, you did right by staying away from the quotes in Revelation seeing as though they show God on the throne to be separate from the lamb (Yeshua the Messiah) whom God hands the scroll to, to be open.......

As far as the Holy Spirit......All you have shown here it that God caused Mary to be pregnant without male intervention. We know, by observing the scriptures, that Yeshua existed in heaven with his god before his god "sent" him to earth. It would appear the method inwhich he was sent was by the will, as Yeshua says, and by the power (holy spirit) of God.

We know that no physical act occured between her and her god so God is not a biological father in the sense that we understand it but we know that God is the reason for Adams beginning as well and he is referred to as the son of God. In fact the bible states that God has plenty of sons.

The holy spirit, which you call God, is present within people throughout the bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth were filled with the holy spirit. Are they to be considred "God in the flesh"......?........If Yeshua is God and the holy spirit is God then why did the holy spirit decend upon himself?

As far as the reference to (Immanuel/Emmanuel)....No where in the four gospels was Yeshua referred to by that descrption. This was purely the writers intepretation regarding an OT prophecy. Mary was instruscted to call her son "Yeshua" and that's what she did....son of God has never been synonymous with (God).

I stand by my previous post. If you like you can continue to assert Yeshua to be God but you'd be hard pressed to explain why the acended Yeshua, who is supposed to be God, would tell John he has a god (not 1 but 4 times in "one" verse). You'd also be hard pressed to explain why, if Yeshua is God, does the "Lamb" in heaven, who is supposed to be Yeshua the Messiah, steps forward to take the scroll from God because he is the only one deemed worth to open the seals. Remember...God had the scroll in his possesion...his creation asks.."Who's worthy of opening the seals"....NONE of Gods' creation would dare ask if God was worthy. They knew it was to be opened by some one other than their god.....

 

[Popeyesays]

God has a baby with a woman/Marry and that's not in the Gospels? your reading skills do not apply to the first chapter of Matthew:

The Birth of Jesus Christ

Matthew 1:18-25 (NIV)
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. 20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[d]—which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.



Did you get the part where Mary has no sex with Joseph and that God/Holy Spirit and Marry conceive Jesus. Notice Joseph is getting a heads-up in this manifestation of God. Is it coming into focus for you?

In Hebrew the verse in the old Testament does not refcer to a 'virgin' but a 'young woman'. It also specifies the name God is With Us (Emmanuel). Do you not notice the differences?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

In Hebrew the verse in the old Testament does not refcer to a 'virgin' but a 'young woman'. It also specifies the name God is With Us (Emmanuel). Do you not notice the differences?

Regards,
Scott

Scott--FYI Matthew is in the NT. What OT Scripture are you referring to? Secondly, most Christian scholars will tell you that Marry was a virgin.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Scott--FYI Matthew is in the NT. What OT Scripture are you referring to? Secondly, most Christian scholars will tell you that Marry was a virgin.

The "WRITER" of the book of Matthew is is interpreting an OT prophecy and attributing it to Yeshua. it is located in;

Isaiah 7:14 ( Masoretic Text) NOT the Septuagint translation. I find the Mesorectic Text to be a better rendering.

Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

This one verse was translated and the word for (young woman) was rendered (virgin) and affixed to Mary. As you study beyond that verse you quickly discover that this is just one piece of a continuous prophecy for the benefit of the king in that day in time. The prophecy was told to the king so that he would be a witness.

 

[Popeyesays]

Scott--FYI Matthew is in the NT. What OT Scripture are you referring to? Secondly, most Christian scholars will tell you that Marry was a virgin.

Isaiah 7:14

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

This is from the Septaguint (Greek translation of the TaNakh).

The Masoretic text (original Hebrew) in English translation reaeds:
"14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."

The word for "virgin" in Hebrew is NOT USED in the TaNakh, rather the word for "young woman" which includes any woman up untril she is proven barren or has her first child.

Please understand I do believe Mary was a virgin. I do believe the Spirit of God was the instrument by which God willed her to be pregnant without ever lying with a man.

Regards,

Scott

 

[crystalonyx]

Just for the sake of argument, why would being born of a supposed virgin make someone a god? It might be the basis for a scientific investigation into the matter.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Just for the sake of argument, why would being born of a supposed virgin make someone a god?

Yea, that's the kicker.......it doesn't. History (mythology) is full of of god/man deities born with no earthly father....

It might be the basis for a scientific investigation into the matter.

Well...as usual.....no one else was there to backup her claim. Either she was telling the truth or was just a convincing storyteller....

 

[Popeyesays]

Yea, that's the kicker.......it doesn't. History (mythology) is full of of god/man deities born with no earthly father....



Well...as usual.....no one else was there to backup her claim. Either she was telling the truth or was just a convincing storyteller....

The Gospels rely on angels, Magi, and the wrath of Herod to provide support for the claim.

The Qur'an is far more interesting and compelling. The infant in Mary's arms chastises the people of her village for not believing that He is divine in origin.

If the only claim to Jesus' fame is that He was born of a virgin then Adam is twice as much the Son of God becauswe He came into beling with neither father nor mother.

Jews will claim that Yehesyuah (Isaiah) is addressing King Ahaz personally and refers to the son of Ahaz and his new bride.

I think both are true. That's the way of prophecy, it has many meanings all at the same time.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Gospels rely on angels, Magi, and the wrath of Herod to provide support for the claim.

The Qur'an is far more interesting and compelling. The infant in Mary's arms chastises the people of her village for not believing that He is divine in origin.

If the only claim to Jesus' fame is that He was born of a virgin then Adam is twice as much the Son of God becauswe He came into beling with neither father nor mother.

Jews will claim that Yehesyuah (Isaiah) is addressing King Ahaz personally and refers to the son of Ahaz and his new bride.

I think both are true. That's the way of prophecy, it has many meanings all at the same time.

Regards,
Scott

As we gaze upon the scriptures (Bible and Quran)....I agree...

As far as Ahaz, I've argued this in the past before with Muffled and I totally agree with you and as one of my previous post indicates.....It was a prophecy for Ahaz and it would be something he would witness in his life time.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I
The Masoretic text (original Hebrew) in English translation reaeds:
"14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."

Is with child.

When this prophecy was spoken, the woman was already pregnant. This prophecy was fulfilled 700 years before Jesus was even a twinkle in Mary's eye.

 

[emiliano]

There are many, many equivalent tales of virgin births in other religions, do you believe all of them?

Yes there are, but how many of them are still around? How many billion of people do believe in them? Every thing that exist has a reason, what do you think the reason for Christianity existence is? How it has expanded to cover the whole world as it was prophesied? There must be a reason, don’t you think?:shout

 

[Jeremy Mason]

[

quote=Dirty Penguin;1180557]Well, you did right by staying away from the quotes in Revelation seeing as though they show God on the throne to be separate from the lamb (Yeshua the Messiah) whom God hands the scroll to, to be open.......

As far as the Holy Spirit......All you have shown here it that God caused Mary to be pregnant without male intervention. We know, by observing the scriptures, that Yeshua existed in heaven with his god before his god "sent" him to earth. It would appear the method inwhich he was sent was by the will, as Yeshua says, and by the power (holy spirit) of God.

We know that no physical act occured between her and her god so God is not a biological father in the sense that we understand it but we know that God is the reason for Adams beginning as well and he is referred to as the son of God. In fact the bible states that God has plenty of sons.

The holy spirit, which you call God, is present within people throughout the bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth were filled with the holy spirit. Are they to be considred "God in the flesh"......?........If Yeshua is God and the holy spirit is God then why did the holy spirit decend upon himself?

As far as the reference to (Immanuel/Emmanuel)....No where in the four gospels was Yeshua referred to by that descrption. This was purely the writers intepretation regarding an OT prophecy. Mary was instruscted to call her son "Yeshua" and that's what she did....son of God has never been synonymous with (God)
I stand by my previous post. If you like you can continue to assert Yeshua to be God but you'd be hard pressed to explain why the acended Yeshua, who is supposed to be God, would tell John he has a god (not 1 but 4 times in "one" verse). You'd also be hard pressed to explain why, if Yeshua is God, does the "Lamb" in heaven, who is supposed to be Yeshua the Messiah, steps forward to take the scroll from God because he is the only one deemed worth to open the seals. Remember...God had the scroll in his possesion...his creation asks.."Who's worthy of opening the seals"....NONE of Gods' creation would dare ask if God was worthy. They knew it was to be opened by some one other than their god.....

I'll stick with my posts as well. They adequately proof the deity of Christ.

 

[emiliano]

Is with child.

When this prophecy was spoken, the woman was already pregnant. This prophecy was fulfilled 700 years before Jesus was even a twinkle in Mary's eye.

OK so there was a child 700 years before the birth of Jesus, what became of him? I thought that this was Isaiah Prophecy
Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
a prophecy of restoration of the chosen people to a better priesthood. the destruction of idolatrous sinners, and the rejection of their sacrifices. The prophet’s harsh prophecy with charges of great sinfulness also contain the promise of great King after the discipline.

 

[Popeyesays]

OK so there was a child 700 years before the birth of Jesus, what became of him? I thought that this was Isaiah Prophecy
Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
a prophecy of restoration of the chosen people to a better priesthood. the destruction of idolatrous sinners, and the rejection of their sacrifices. The prophet’s harsh prophecy with charges of great sinfulness also contain the promise of great King after the discipline.

And to give further spin to the coin here, Baha`i's believe the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace is a reference to Baha`u'llah since Jesus never did any of those things.

Neither of course, did the son of Ahaz do any of those things.

Which goes to show that prophecy must be understood on several levels at the same time.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Scott1]

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

Yep.

 

[Poisonshady313]

And to give further spin to the coin here, Baha`i's believe the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace is a reference to Baha`u'llah since Jesus never did any of those things.

Neither of course, did the son of Ahaz do any of those things.

Which goes to show that prophecy must be understood on several levels at the same time.

Regards,
Scott

Judaism maintains that Hezekiah is the prince of peace.

 

[emiliano]

Judaism maintains that Hezekiah is the prince of peace.

What of the rest, The mighty God, The everlasting Father?

 

[UnityNow101]

Nobody seems to look at this issue from the very foundation. Does it matter whether Jesus was God or not? If he was, than he disappeared and it was as if he never was to begin with. If he was not, than nothing else changes either. Even with the book, there is not a clear answer. So we are just going by what we think that the book seems to tell us. Can any of it be known without the book? Absolutely NOT! I have been in the position of searching endlessly for "truth" in different books and teachers and have begun to understand that they are all giving us the run-around. If it cannot be known even using the book, than should it matter to us? We cannot go back and find out for ourselves. So we must drop the gimmickry and look for what is truth. And if it has to be searched out in a book, than it is likely to not be the truth at all.

 

[crystalonyx]

Yes there are, but how many of them are still around? How many billion of people do believe in them? Every thing that exist has a reason, what do you think the reason for Christianity existence is? How it has expanded to cover the whole world as it was prophesied? There must be a reason, don’t you think?:shout

Sorry, "bandwagon" theories don't cut it with me. Milllions of people got on board in Hitler's extermination of the Jews, does that make it right?

CHristianinity was just the cult that won out, and was carried on thru tradition, that's all, it's tales have no more validity than any other religion's and it is arrogant to suggest otherwise.