Trailblazer
Veteran Member
By talking to atheists.
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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles
- Thread starter SeekingAllTruth
- Start date
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
No, you couldn't. Why? Because they are not there. I am beginning to think that you actually believe you would find 'those examples' if you did some digging.
It's sad to see someone delude themselves so obviously.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't understand if I did tell you, SZ. Behind all this pretend Mr Know-it-All I see a lot of
self-doubt.
So, you have seen quite a few but you refuse to say what they are. In fact you refuse to say what even one is. Surely they can't all be strawmen.
LOL! You never fail to amuse.
***
Are you aware of the difference between Young Earth creationism and Evolutionary creationism?
You may learn something from the BioLogos forum.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
They are there. It is simply not worth my time. If you want to move on I will otherwise you can keep making demands and I will keep responding the same. There is no helping a denier and so far you appear to be one.
It is odd that you refuse to change your tactic and enter into a polite discussion. It is almost as if you are afraid of me. But of course you have said that you are not many times. Still it is rather strange
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
]LOL!! Wow! double whoosh. You displayed poor reading comprehension again.
Listen very carefully. Sometimes I use the logical fallacies and dishonest debating techniques of creationists to show them the flaw in their approach. What I did was an example of quote mining. An attempt to lie by quoting out of context and not providing a proper source. I never use that argument seriously. What led you to think that I was being serious? It was an illustration of a flawed technique.
And I explained why. I won't do what should have been your homework a long time ago for you. And yes, I know that there is an entire spectrum of failed Christian beliefs. Biologus varies, but they do tend to accept evolution. They may try to claim that God guided it but they have no scientific evidence for that claim. But at least they are not outright deniers of reality.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And this is an example of improper reasoning. Of course people that remain Christians are going to tend to believe the Bible. Christians are not the group that you should be talking to. That is like asking Muslims why some people are ex-Muslims. They are very unlikely to give a correct answer.How odd! When I talk to Christians I find the opposite. How can this be?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You find that the Bible makes Christians? Sure it does, but it also makes atheists.How odd! When I talk to Christians I find the opposite. How can this be?
This can be because everyone does not respond to the Bible in the same way.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Or like asking ex-Baha'is who became Christians (which is very rare) why they are no longer Baha'is. They are very unlikely to give a correct answer regarding what Baha's truly believe. They are going to distort the facts in order to support the Christian belief.
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SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
I apologize.Do try to be polite. SD will not be pleased with you!
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
They are there. It is simply not worth my time. If you want to move on I will otherwise you can keep making demands and I will keep responding the same. There is no helping a denier and so far you appear to be one.
It is odd that you refuse to change your tactic and enter into a polite discussion. It is almost as if you are afraid of me. But of course you have said that you are not many times. Still it is rather strange
A. asks B, to produce evidence for B’s claims. (Did you notice the word ‘asks’?)
Now, this can only be seen as ‘demanding’ if B. has no idea how to go about producing evidence for her/his claims, because there is none.
***
I just love this irrational notion of yours that I am afraid of you. How could anyone possibly be afraid of someone so incompetent that she/he has to answer a simple question about past posts with “It’s not worth my time.”
Honesty is always worth your time, SZ.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Well done! A real man / woman.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Yes, that was my point.You find that the Bible makes Christians? Sure it does, but it also makes atheists.
This can be because everyone does not respond to the Bible in the same way.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
If you find the Trinity to be ‘logical’, then you, and Bahá’u’lláh, lack understanding. The Trinity is above and beyond logic. Supra-rational.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
A has a history of dishonesty and false accusations and demands evidence from B. B laughs and walks away and suggests that when A can clean up her act then she can demand evidence.
Once again if you were not afraid of me you would enter into a polite discussion. It was explained to you several times why I will not bother scanning through ages and pages of this thread. You are simply not worth the effort.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is and it isn't. And it does not help the case of Trinitarians that what is perhaps the clearest verse (or rather verses) that support the Trinity were added to the Bible. Specifically 1 John 7-8/. Here is an article from a Christian group, not a Trinitarian group, but if you like I can find the scholarly sources that support this as well. I merely like to use sources that are not atheistic when making Christian claims:Of course it is.
You look, Tb
But you do not see.
A Spurious Reference to the Trinity Added in 1 John 5 verses 7-8
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
As I have shown, I am not demanding evidence. You don’t appear to know the difference between asking and demanding. A dictionary may help.
Yet another false assumption. A totally irrational statement, and you just can’t see it, can you? Your arrogance knows no bounds, SZ. But tell me, what do you mean by the word “polite” in the context of this forum?
Effort? You don’t know the basic facts about my ‘running away'? You don’t know which question you asked which caused me to run away? You can’t remember?
SZ, you have a history of dishonesty and false accusations which you refuse to back up.
You are fooling no one but yourself,
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Demand ask I don't care. By continually asking for something that has been explained that you are not going to get due to your own poor behavior there is no real difference between a request and a demand. They did look like demands to me.
And you are back to making unsupported and false claims. Just because you apparently do not understand how you demonstrate all of the traits of a threatened person does not mean that others cannot see this. Once again for your benefit. A threatened person refuses to enter into a polite debate. They tend to use your tactics. Your actions say that you are terribly threatened even if you believe that you are not.
Effort? You don’t know the basic facts about my ‘running away'? You don’t know which question you asked which caused me to run away? You can’t remember?
SZ, you have a history of dishonesty and false accusations which you refuse to back up.
You are fooling no one but yourself,
All you need to do is to attempt to enter in to a polite conversation. Yet for some odd reason you avoid doing so. Instead all you have are false accusations that you cannot justify. That is running away to me.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You are the one who looks but does not SEE.Of course it is.
You look, Tb
But you do not see.
Which Christian denominations do not believe in the Trinity? Why not?
The Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International, the United Church of God, and Armstrongism do not believe in trinitarinanism because they do not share history with the post-apostolic process that concocted the doctrine. Also, Unitarians believe that the Father is the sole deity and the Savior was not God.
Virtually all other Christian denominations believe in the 3-in-1 Trinity because of the influence from Roman Catholicism.
The seeds of trinitarian ideas were fabricated over the course of centuries following Jesus' death and came into vogue in the 4th century AD when Emperor Constantine, an unbaptized pagan, threw his weight behind it for political reasons. After decades of controversy and much bloodshed over the issue, the doctrine of trinitarianism was made official by the Council of Constantinople 381AD. By then, there were no 12 apostles living to contradict it. (I redacted “Athanasian Creed” from this paragraph in response to Francis Mardsden’s comment.)
Trinitarianism is not Biblical - just the opposite. Jesus said, The Father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28) That alone explodes the trinitarian myth. Also, all three godhead members were manifested separately at Christ’s baptism; Jesus in the river, the Father's voice from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove. (Matthew 3:16-17) On many occasions, Jesus prayed to His Father with words that prove they were two distinct individuals, Jesus conforming His will to the Father’s. The risen Lord told Mary He had yet to visit His Father. Jesus claimed not to know when the end would come and said only His Father knew. (Mark 13:32) Jesus said, The Son will judge but not the Father. (John 5:22) He said, blasphemy against Him and the Father was forgivable but not against the Holy Ghost. On the cross, He asked His Father why He had forsaken Him. (Mt. 27:46) “After the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” (Mk. 16:19) As Stephen was being stoned, he looked into heaven and saw “Jesus standing on the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55) These are but a few examples of Jesus teaching and demonstrating that He was separate and distinct from His Father.
The references in the Bible declaring the Father and the Son to be “one” are explained by Christ Himself in His intercessory prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane where He asked His Father to help the disciples to become “one” even as He and the Father were one. The Bible says a husband and wife become “one flesh” but nobody suspects that marriage transforms a couple of humans into an incomprehensible binity. (Mark 10:8) Unity of mind and purpose is a common theme in life.
Only extremely twisted logic allows a person to believe in a Jesus who is also His own Father conceived by His own Holy Ghost self! Trinitarianism pollutes the true character of the godhead and contradicts the scripture that "God created man in his own image" as we are not triple-personality nor composite individuals. Trinitarianism hyper-mystifies God, unnecessarily distancing us from the Father of our spirits while depersonalizing our Savior by denying Him of His distinct individuality.
Even those who believe it have trouble explaining it, invoking obscure terminologies that the average person finds foreign and obfuscational. “God is three consubstantial persons or hypostases.” The Athanasian Creed repeats the same theme multiple times, as if verbosity stabilizes the nonsense. “We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.” And so on and on and on.
The question should be rephrased, “Which Christian sects hold to trinitarianism and why?”
Which Christian denominations do not believe in the Trinity? Why not? - Quora