Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[samtonga43]

In already used that word in a previous post.

The word 'arrogance' is better applied to those who feel like burning the Holy book of another religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course He did.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there?

I don’t care what Jesus said 2,000 years ago, IF He ever even said it, which I highly doubt.
Good luck trying to prove that Jesus ever said those exact words.

And I don’t care what you BELIEVE that means because it is completely irrelevant.

What I believe it means is that Jesus said He was the only way to come to the Father, but that only applied to the Christian Dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

By an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is only according to one religion at a time. Thus each religion only applies to the age (dispensation) in which it is revealed.

Once a Messenger of God has completed His Mission on earth, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Messenger of God appears. Moreover, every time God sends a new Messenger, His Revelation abrogates all the Revelations that came before it and the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes.

The gospel of Jesus has not been abrogated, but the Dispensation of Jesus has been unconditionally abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. Abrogation means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to the gospel of Jesus.

You are reading into the text what YOU wish the text said. Tb. It is called eisegesis.

That is not what I am doing, that is what YOU are doing. You are assuming what Jesus said applies to all time, but He never said that it applied to all of time. You just want that to be the case so that is what you believe. It is called confirmation bias. According to my beliefs Jesus was the Way during His Dispensation, but Baha’u’llah is now that Way to God that God wants us to use. His (God’s) Manifestation for this day is Baha’u’llah, not Jesus.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

The Bible is no more valid than the Writings of Baha’u’llah and actually it is less valid since we don’t even know who wrote it, or if Jesus ever said anything written in it. By stark contrast, we know that Baha’u’llah wrote His scriptures in His own pen because it was stamped with His official seal and even after that it was authenticated by modern methods.

I can assure you that the Christians on the forums I frequent would have no problem whatsoever dealing with your posts.

I guess that is why they cannot reply to posts I post with verses where Jesus says He is no longer in the world and His work is finished here.

But why is this unjust? You seem unable to address this point.

It would be unjust if God expected everyone to be a Christian or else not go to heaven.

This is arrogance, You are doing your religion no favors, Tb.

Get yourself a dictionary. I am not arrogant because I disagree with Christian beliefs and I feel a certain way about the Bible, but I would be arrogant if I believed that my religion was the only true religion, as Christians believe. I would not be doing my religion any favors by pretending I agree with Christian beliefs because that would be misrepresenting my religion and it would also be dishonest.

Unless they are correct, of course.

It would still be arrogance even if they were correct and you just demonstrated how arrogant you are by what you said.

NOTHING is more arrogant than this Christian BELIEF that they are the only true religion.

All you have is a BELIEF. Good luck trying to prove it is true. You will never be able to, not anymore than I will ever be able to prove what I believe is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

The word 'arrogance' is better applied to those who feel like burning the Holy book of another religion.

It does not apply at all, it is not even related to what I said.

Definition of arrogance
: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

How I FEEL about the Bible has NOTHING to do with arrogance but it has everything to do with the presumptuous claims of Christianity, that Jesus is the Only Way and Christianity is the only true religion.

And since you cannot reply to that and defend it in any manner shape or form you keep bringing up what I said about the Bible and try to beat me over the head with it as of it has any relevancy whatsoever to anything we have been discussing.

I know your game. You are not fooling anyone, you are as transparent as glass. Everyone else reading this can see what you are trying to do. It is called deflecting.

 

[samtonga43]

I don’t care what Jesus said 2,000 years ago, IF He ever even said it, which I highly doubt.

Of course He did.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there?

Good luck trying to prove that Jesus ever said those exact words.

I have no intention of trying to prove something which CANNOT be proved. That would be a complete waste of time. But if you don’t care what Jesus said, what makes you think you would care if His words COULD be proved?

And I don’t care what you BELIEVE that means because it is completely irrelevant. What I believe it means is that Jesus said He was the only way to come to the Father, but that only applied to the Christian Dispensation.

As I said, do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there? No? Me neither.

You are assuming what Jesus said applies to all time, but He never said that it applied to all of time.

I repeat, do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there? No? Me neither.

You just want that to be the case so that is what you believe. It is called confirmation bias. The Bible is no more valid than the Writings of Baha’u’llah and actually it is less valid since we don’t even know who wrote it, or if Jesus ever said anything written in it. By stark contrast, we know that Baha’u’llah wrote His scriptures in His own pen because it was stamped with His official seal and even after that it was authenticated by modern methods.

Confirmation bias.

I guess that is why they cannot reply to posts I post with verses where Jesus says He is no longer in the world and His work is finished here.

No reply? That's probably because they are Christians from Fundy-Bible-Belt-Land.

It would be unjust if God expected everyone to be a Christian or else not go to heaven.

God expects nothing from us. Christ did everything necessary.

Get yourself a dictionary. I am not arrogant because I disagree with Christian beliefs and I feel a certain way about the Bible, but I would be arrogant if I believed that my religion was the only true religion, as Christians believe. I would not be doing my religion any favors by pretending I agree with Christian beliefs because that would be misrepresenting my religion and it would also be dishonest.

It is certainly arrogant to believe that this book, so important to those of a different religion to yours, deserves to be burned because you do not agree with Christian beliefs. Anyone who thinks that this is NOT arrogant... is delusional.

It would still be arrogance even if they were correct and you just demonstrated how arrogant you are by what you said.

Don’t be silly. Didn’t you notice the word “unless”?

All you have is a BELIEF. Good luck trying to prove it is true. You will never be able to, not anymore than I will ever be able to prove what I believe is true.

As I keep telling you, Tb, I have no need to prove what I know to be true.

 

[samtonga43]

I know your game. You are not fooling anyone, you are as transparent as glass.

Thank you. Yes, so I’ve been told. I do try to be as clear and open as possible.

Everyone else reading this can see what you are trying to do.

Another ridiculous statement. You cannot possibly know what 'everyone' can see.

 

[samtonga43]

But not without a lot of pain....like the pain of a stiff neck spending a lifetime looking upward for the 2nd Coming.

"Upward"? You think that God is 'UP'?

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course He did.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there?

Do you see the words forever on the verse? No, so that does not mean forever.

If your dad says to you when you are three years old the only way you can ride a bike is if you ride this tricycle does that mean you have to ride a tricycle forever? This is no different. Textbook are written but they were never intended to be used all of time. New textbooks are written with updates and what those textbook say supersedes the previous textbooks.

More Holy Books have been written since the Bible was written. They contain NEW information and they supersede the Bible. It is too bad you don’t like it but you cannot thwart the will of an Almighty God.

I have no intention of trying to prove something which CANNOT be proved. That would be a complete waste of time. But if you don’t care what Jesus said, what makes you think you would care if His words COULD be proved?

I care what Jesus said, I just interpret it differently than you do, in light of NEW information from the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

When are you Christians going to ever understand the basic fact that people interpret the Bible differently? If they didn’t then all Christians would agree on every verse in the Bible.

As I said, do you see the words “For the moment” or “For now” or “Only those living now” in there? No? Me neither.

Do you see the words “Forever” or “For all time” or “For those living in the future” in there? Me neither. There is nothing I can do if you refuse to be logical and I am not going around this same block much longer. What’s the point? You want to believe that Jesus is the only way for all time just like all Christians. That will never change and I will never believe it so what is the point of this discussion?

God expects nothing from us. Christ did everything necessary.

Okay then, everyone is going to heaven even if they don’t believe in Jesus. All atheists aboard!

The salient problem is that is not congruent with the entire Bible you so revere. It is a result of cherry picking and misinterpreting verses.

As I keep telling you, Tb, I have no need to prove what I know to be true.

And I have no need to prove what I know is true, so we are square.

You can believe whatever you want to as long as you are living on earth, judgment day comes later.
Have a good life.

 

[Trailblazer]

Another ridiculous statement. You cannot possibly know what 'everyone' can see.

Now that is a true statement.

 

[samtonga43]

Do you see the words forever on the verse? No, so that does not mean forever.
If your dad says to you when you are three years old the only way you can ride a bike is if you ride this tricycle does that mean you have to ride a tricycle forever? This is no different. Textbook are written but they were never intended to be used all of time. New textbooks are written with updates and what those textbook say supersedes the previous textbooks.

Poor analogy.
If Christ ( the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, the Resurrection and the Life, the Son of God, the Eternal One) says to me:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...
I will believe Him.
After all, there is only ONE Christ.

But the word of the Lord remains forever. 1 Peter 1:25
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 40:8

I care what Jesus said, I just interpret it differently than you do, in light of NEW information from the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

"I care what Jesus said" Tb
“I don’t care what Jesus said 2,000 years ago”, Tb
Tb, I believe Jesus because He is the Second Person of the Trinity. Why do you believe Baha’u’llah?

When are you Christians going to ever understand the basic fact that people interpret the Bible differently?

That exactly what I’ve been telling you. The Fundies believe that there was an actual snake, an actual tree and an actual fruit. They have no idea whatsoever about context or genres. They miss such a lot. And so do you.

You want to believe that Jesus is the only way for all time just like all Christians. That will never change and I will never believe it so what is the point of this discussion?

I was an atheist for many years. Now, I cannot dismiss the evidence; that would be foolish. There is hope for you yet. As to the point of this discussion, I have learned a lot about the beliefs and the feelings of a follower of Baha’u’llah.

Okay then, everyone is going to heaven even if they don’t believe in Jesus. All atheists aboard!

But why would atheists want to be with God? Wouldn't that be anathema to them?

The salient problem is that is not congruent with the entire Bible you so revere. It is a result of cherry picking and misinterpreting verses.

I disagree. It is not I who is cherry-picking and misinterpreting verses.

You can believe whatever you want to as long as you are living on earth, judgment day comes later. Have a good life.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 3:16-17

 

[samtonga43]

Now that is a true statement.

I’m glad we agree. Let’s lay down that broad brush.

 

[Trailblazer]

Poor analogy.

What is it poor about it?

If Christ ( the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, the Resurrection and the Life, the Son of God, the Eternal One) says to me:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...
I will believe Him.

That’s your choice, and when Baha’u’llah says…….

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

“No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

I will believe Him.

After all, there is only ONE Christ.

Correction: there is only one Jesus, the man in the flesh, but there is more than one man who brought the Christ Spirit.
We know what Jesus said about flesh, so I have to wonder why Christians are so emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

But the word of the Lord remains forever. 1 Peter 1:25
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 40:8

That’s true, the word of God remains forever as God’s testimony. While chastising some Muslim clerics who believed that the Bible had been corrupted, Baha’u’llah referred to the Bible as “God’s holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures.”

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! “How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

"I care what Jesus said" Tb
“I don’t care what Jesus said 2,000 years ago”, Tb
Tb, I believe Jesus because He is the Second Person of the Trinity. Why do you believe Baha’u’llah?

I believe in Baha’u’llah because He is the Manifestation of God for this age, but I also believe in Jesus. I listen to Christian radio all day and I pray to Jesus.

It is important that you understand the “official” Baha’i position on Christianity because I have probably misrepresented it.

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.” The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

That exactly what I’ve been telling you. The Fundies believe that there was an actual snake, an actual tree and an actual fruit. They have no idea whatsoever about context or genres. They miss such a lot. And so do you.

What do you think I am missing?

I was an atheist for many years. Now, I cannot dismiss the evidence; that would be foolish. There is hope for you yet. As to the point of this discussion, I have learned a lot about the beliefs and the feelings of a follower of Baha’u’llah.

What made you go from atheism to Christianity? Yes,it would be foolish for you to dismiss the evidence in the gospels just as it would be foolish for me to dismiss all the evidence for Baha’u’llah. It would also be foolish for either one of us to become an atheist given what we know. Fear of God is no small thing.

There is no hope for me being a Christian and rejecting Baha’u’llah. I already have the best of both worlds because I can believe in both Jesus and Baha’u’llah and simply understand that they had very different earthly missions. Jesus’ primary mission was salvation of the individual and freeing humanity from the vices of the human world; Baha’u’llah’s primary mission was the to unite mankind and bring the teachings and laws we will need to build the Kingdom of God on earth...

The quote below explains what Baha’is believe Jesus achieved for humanity, the purpose of his teachings and cross sacrifice:

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125

But why would atheists want to be with God? Wouldn't that be anathema to them?

Not necessarily. Atheists do not believe that God exists, but they don’t have an aversion for God. If they knew what we knew they would come aboard and want to be with God.

I disagree. It is not I who is cherry-picking and misinterpreting verses.

That means nothing without some examples. What do you think I cherry-pick or misinterpret? (aside from John 14:6, because I don’t want to go over that again).

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 3:16-17

I agree, God gave His only Son, but God also gave us Baha’u’llah so that those who believe in Him would have eternal life.

“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. “No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

 

[samtonga43]

What is it poor about it?

Your dad is not God. God’s Word IS for all time, unlike learning to ride a.bicycle, which is sequential.

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

Who wrote these ‘Gleanings’ Tb?

“No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

And what IS the truth of this ‘inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation’? Also, does embracing the truth involve obedience to laws or customs of some kind? If so, what are they?

Correction: there is only one Jesus, the man in the flesh, but there is more than one man who brought the Christ Spirit.

Strawman.
As I said, there is only ONE Christ.

We know what Jesus said about flesh, so I have to wonder why Christians are so emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus.

Wonder no longer! Christians are NOT emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus, other than that He can identify with us as both God and man.

I believe in Baha’u’llah because He is the Manifestation of God for this age, but I also believe in Jesus. I listen to Christian radio all day and I pray to Jesus.

As a matter of interest, Bt – where would I find the Christian radio you listen to?

It is important that you understand the “official” Baha’i position on Christianity because I have probably misrepresented it.

I do hope you have.

What do you think I am missing?

Christ.
Christ Alone, Cornerstone.

What made you go from atheism to Christianity?

God drew me to Christ.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day".

Yes,it would be foolish for you to dismiss the evidence in the gospels just as it would be foolish for me to dismiss all the evidence for Baha’u’llah. It would also be foolish for either one of us to become an atheist given what we know. Fear of God is no small thing.

Foolish? For me it would be impossible.

Not necessarily. Atheists do not believe that God exists, but they don’t have an aversion for God.

I beg to differ. Many of the atheists I have come across, while studying Christian Apologetics, and posting on many forums, certainly DO have an aversion to all things Christian, including the Christian God.

I agree, God gave His only Son, but God also gave us Baha’u’llah so that those who believe in Him would have eternal life.

God gives eternal life through His only Son and through no one else.

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

Tb, I don't understand why this is written in faux-17th century English. Can you tell me?

 

[Trailblazer]

Your dad is not God. God’s Word IS for all time, unlike learning to ride a bicycle, which is sequential.

The problem is that there is no reason to assume that the Word of God as it is delineated in the Bible was ever intended by God to be followed for all time. Time does not stand still. Humanity and the world we live in changes dramatically over time so there is no reason to assume that the Bible would be the only Scripture that humanity would ever need.

The way that humanity progresses is sequential and if humanity never moves past what is in the Bible humanity will never progress. That is the reason I said what I did about that Bible, because I believe the Bible and Christianity are is holding back humanity’s progress because they are preventing people from turning to the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, which is what humanity needs in this age.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Who wrote these ‘Gleanings’ Tb?

Gleanings is the original Writings of Baha’u’llah, translated into English by Shoghi Effendi, the great grandson of Baha’u’llah. It is called Gleanings because it is an extraction from various Tablets of Baha’u’llah.

And what IS the truth of this ‘inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation’?

That truth is vast, as Baha’u’llah wrote over 15,000 Tablets, but for now I will say it is the truth that Jesus promised would be brought to us by the Spirit of truth and the Comforter which were titles for Baha’u’llah.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It always helps to see the passage in its context.

“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.

Incline your ears, O friends of God, to the voice of Him Whom the world hath wronged, and hold fast unto whatsoever will exalt His Cause. He, verily, guideth whomsoever He pleaseth unto His straight Path. This is a Revelation that infuseth strength into the feeble, and crowneth with wealth the destitute.

With the utmost friendliness and in a spirit of perfect fellowship take ye counsel together, and dedicate the precious days of your lives to the betterment of the world and the promotion of the Cause of Him Who is the Ancient and Sovereign Lord of all. He, verily, enjoineth upon all men what is right, and forbiddeth whatsoever degradeth their station.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 183-184

The Cause of Him Who is the Ancient and Sovereign Lord of all refers to the Cause of God, and Baha’u’llah’s Cause is the Cause of God for this age.

Also, does embracing the truth involve obedience to laws or customs of some kind? If so, what are they?

Yes, it does involve obedience to the Laws. The first duty we have is to recognize Baha’u’llah as the Manifestation of God for this age and the second duty is obedience to the Laws He revealed.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas is Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws, written in Arabic around 1873 while He was still imprisoned within the city of 'Akká. It is considered the Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Faith. As I recall, it was translated into English in 1982.

(Continued on next post)

 

[Trailblazer]

Strawman.
As I said, there is only ONE Christ.

That’s true, there is only one Jesus Christ.

Wonder no longer! Christians are NOT emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus, other than that He can identify with us as both God and man.

A small detour will be necessary at this point. Baha’is do not believe that Jesus was both God and man. Not only is it logically impossible to be both God and a man, but God cannot incarnate His Essence and reveal it to us. God cannot become a man. Rather, God manifested Himself as a man, and for lack of a better word, Jesus was a hybrid, a God-man. The following passage describes the twofold nature of Jesus. (Pay close attention because this is very important, related to your Trinity belief I can address later if you want.)

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

Now back to what I said. That would be fine if the reason Christians were emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus was because Jesus can identify with us as both God and man, because that is exactly what Jesus could do, and that is why Jesus was the Mediator between God and man. However, this is not WHY most Christians are emotionally attached to the flesh body of Jesus. Rather than being attached to Jesus as the Mediator who connected us to God, they are attached to what they believe is the resurrected BODY of Jesus, the body they believe ascended to heaven and will return from heaven.

As a matter of interest, Bt – where would I find the Christian radio you listen to?

K-LOVE

I do hope you have.

I have and that is no doubt because I have a certain bias – sometimes but not always. Talk to another Baha’i and you will get a completely different perspective. That’s why I posted the “official” Baha’i position, because all Baha’is agree on that.

Christ.
Christ Alone, Cornerstone.

I do not believe that Christ was the only Manifestation of God because I am a Baha’i.

But I am not missing Christ as the Cornerstone because Christ laid the foundation that humanity was later to build upon.

“Jesus created a power of perceiving God which was new, and in order that it might operate clearly, had to cleanse the spirit of man from all worldly encumbrances. Virtue becomes detachment from the world, sin attachment to it. Jesus demanded this sacrifice — losing the life of the world for the life of the spirit, but He made God so attractive, so joyous, loving, powerful, that the Christian was ready to abandon all for Him, and for Christ Who revealed Him.

Thus the tremendous and fearsome Deity of the Old Testament wins men's hearts in the New. We read of the poor sparrow whose fall was watched by a loving Father, of the flower of the field and the bird of the air, and the tenderest stories that ever have won men's hearts — the prodigal son and the good Samaritan.

A new quality of love now characterizes the Kingdom, a love which united the believers not only with God, but with each other, and even extended to enemies and "them that hate you." "That ye love one another" became the test of Christian discipleship.

The supreme ideal of this love was, as shown in John, the relationship between Christ and the Father, and though revealed in the most simple language and the plainest words, stands as the highest expression of Divine love in scripture.

The result was that Jesus' teachings let loose upon the soul and heart of man a spiritual power such as never had been known in the world before. Historians have said that Jesus' teaching has done more to elevate human nature and civilization than all the laws of legislators and the disquisitions of philosophers combined. By releasing religious energies measured to the needs of the hour and the people, He opened the way to the Kingdom of God in men's hearts. New affections and aspirations, hopes and loyalties were brought into being and the whole moral world was carried into a state of flux.”

From: Christ and Baha'u'llah, Jesus Christ, Herald of the Kingdom

That was written by George Townshend who was a dignitary of the Anglican Church in Ireland and a Canon of St. Patrick’s Cathedral, Dublin who resigned his Orders after forty years to proclaim his conviction that Christ has come again to an unheeding world in the person of Baha’u’llah.

I beg to differ. Many of the atheists I have come across, while studying Christian Apologetics, and posting on many forums, certainly DO have an aversion to all things Christian, including the Christian God.

If atheists have an aversion it is to Christianity and the Bible, not to the idea of a God they do not even believe exists.

God gives eternal life through His only Son and through no one else.

Spoken like a true Christian who has been thoroughly convinced by what Christianity teaches. You are free to believe that if you want to and I am sure you will. Just remember, it is just a belief, not a fact. I also have a belief and you already know what that is. Eternal life in this age comes through Baha’u’llah. It might also come through Jesus, if God wills, but there is no guarantee that those who reject Baha’u’llah will attain eternal life, so I would not want to take that kind of chance with my eternal life. I am covered no matter what because I believe in both Jesus and Baha’u’llah. Christians cannot tell me I am not covered just because I have a different belief about Jesus. That won’t work, because I believe in Jesus and I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and Jesus said:

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Mind you, Baha’is do not believe that heaven is a geographical location, but a Baha’i once asked the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith (Shoghi Effendi) how to get to heaven, and here was his answer...

"To 'get to heaven' as you say is dependent on two things--faith in the Manifestation of God in His Day, in other words in this age in Bahá'u'lláh; and good deeds, in other words living to the best of our ability a noble life and doing unto others as we would be done by. But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File

Christians, except those who have become Baha’is, act as if they are losing something if they believe in Baha’u’llah, but they are not losing anything except their exclusivity, the belief that they alone have the truth. They are also losing their hope that the same Jesus will return someday but since it is a false hope they are not really losing anything at all.

Tb, I don't understand why this is written in faux-17th century English. Can you tell me?

Please note that not all of Baha’u’llah’s Writings were translated into King James English.
Why some of them were translated that was explained by another Baha’i on another thread some time ago:

Tony said: The reason is that Shoghi Effendi went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings of Baha'u'llah from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies he determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi offered that the future may see different translations.

#155 Tony Bristow-Stagg

 

[Muffled]

Yes, all prophecy that looks failed now can be labeled unfulfilled until a future date, except for this one. "Some you you standing here [right now]..."

As I said before, it still can be fulfilled in the future because of reincarnation.

 

[Muffled]

You are free to believe anything you want to believe and I cannot prove you are wrong, nor can I prove that I am right.
As a Christian you are going to believe what you were taught to believe and as a Bahai I am going to believe what I have come to believe, so what's the point in arguing, after we have stated our beliefs?

But just for the record, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to anyone because I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the Bounty of God does not talk. Rather, the Bounty of God is sent to Messengers of God and they bring it to humanity.

I believe what the Bible says not what some teacher might say and certainly not what a religious philosopher says and even more so when he is so wrong about things.

The Bible does not suppor the "bounty of God" concept. It does support the Holy Spirit speaking to people.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

As I said before, it still can be fulfilled in the future because of reincarnation.

Christians don't believe in reincarnation. They say it's a Hindu belief therefore it is a pagan belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

Christians don't believe in reincarnation.

Some Christians do. Go figure.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Some Christians do. Go figure.

Yet another example of how disjointed the religion is. I think most Christians have their own particular set of beliefs on everything Christian from soup to nuts. For them "Christian" is just a label, it's not a way to actually believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yet another example of how disjointed the religion is. I think most Christians have their own particular set of beliefs on everything Christian from soup to nuts. For them "Christian" is just a label, it's not a way to actually believe.

I was going to say exactly that. Because Christians interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs.
I have told them this myriad times, but they keep saying, "but the Bible says." Then I explain that the Bible does not SAY anything because a book does not talk. Rather, people read the words and interpret them as they read and assign meanings to them.

Why people cannot understand what is so simple I will never understand. I think it has something to do with ego and believing they know what the Bible means, so they do not even try to understand what I am saying to them. This has been going on for eight years and it is really tiring. You by contrast are like a breath of fresh air every time you come around.