Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[SeekingAllTruth]

Jesus did not say He is the way, the truth, and the life, and that only He is the way to the Father.

There is nothing rational about believing that Jesus is the only way for all time unless you have tunnel vision. When Jesus said that He was the way, the truth, and the life; and no man could come unto the Father, but by Jesus. But that did not mean that the ONLY way, truth and life for all time; and it did not mean that no man could EVER come unto the Father, but by Jesus.

Jesus did not say:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the only way, the truth, and the life for all time: no man ever cometh unto the Father, but by me

This is logic 101 stuff. Let's say that when you were three years old your dad said that the only way you can ride a bike is if you ride a tricycle; that does not mean that when you are a teenager you have to keep riding a tricycle. No, you can ride a 10 speed when you are older, and then when you are an adult you can ride a motorcycle.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

Is really no different than what Baha'u'llah said about gaining access to the Father….

“Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men.” Gleanings p. 303

I don't really want to burn the Bible. I told you that was just a feeling I had and it is in a certain context... I feel that way because I believe that the Baha'i Faith is the truth that God wants everyone to adhere to in this age and I see no hope for that ever happening as long as Christians cling to the Bible, and I would say the same thing about Jews clinging to the Torah because they cling as much or more than Christians cling to the Bible!

Glad you asked. The primary reason is because I believe that Baha'u'llah revealed the message that humanity needs in this age, including the oneness of religion and the unity of mankind. I also could never believe in any religion that taught that it is "the only way" because that makes no sense, and no just and loving God would reveal that message to His Messenger.

Another reason I am a Baha'i is because of the overwhelming evidence that shows that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be. Last night I explained that on another thread.

adrian009 said: Does historical fact matter or should religious myth be accorded the same status as fact? We’re discussing religion after all. How important are facts to you within your religious belief or worldview? Does it really matter? Why or why not?

Trailblazer said: Facts are more important to me than anything else, and that is why I became a Baha'i in the first place. The first thing I did when I heard of Baha'u'llah back in 1970 was look in the Encyclopedia Britannica to find out of Baha'u'llah was a real person. After that I read whaever books had been published about the Bahai faitrh at that time and I read the Writings of Bahaulah and abdul-Baha, but what really convinced me that the Baha'i Faith was true was Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era because there were a lot of facts in there.

Emotions can be very misleading so I rely upon facts. As I always tell people, I never had any mushy-gushy feelings towards God or Baha'u'llah; I just know that the Baha'i Faith is the truth from God for this age because of the facts surrounding the life and mission of Baha'u'llah and because the theology is logical.

It was only 43 years after I had become a Baha'i that I connected with the Writings of Baha'u'llah on both an intellectual and an emotional level when I read Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh for the first time with serious intent, and that is when I realized without a doubt that Baha'u'llah was speaking for God. My life has never been the same since. Before that I had believed in God and I knew Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God; after that I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that God existed and Baha'u'llah was His Representative for this age. Such was the effect that little book had upon my heart and mind. In the Preface to the paperback it says:

“Gleanings is a book for meditative study. It is not a book of history and facts, but of love and spiritual power. No one can understand the faith of the thousands of martyred followers of the Bab, unless he catches the spirit of this book. No one can appreciate why thousands of Baha’is give up the comfort of settled homes and move into strange countries to tell the people about Baha’u’llah, unless he clearly glimpses the spirit of this book.” Gleanings

And now that I have clearly glimpsed the spirit of this book I guess I am a lifer.

#22 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 5:51 PM

I would also like to point out that I was not raised in any religion so I had no bias. I was not even searching for God or a religion when I discovered the Baha'i Faith.

The bold above is a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[samtonga43]

Exactly! Ask a person why s/he's an atheist. 90% of the time they answer, "Because I read the Bible."

Nonsense! 9O%? You just made this up, didn't you? If not, please show your evidence.

 

[samtonga43]

Jesus did not say He is the way, the truth, and the life, and that only He is the way to the Father.

Of course He did.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6.

There is nothing rational about believing that Jesus is the only way for all time unless you have tunnel vision. When Jesus said that He was the way, the truth, and the life; and no man could come unto the Father, but by Jesus. But that did not mean that the ONLY way, truth and life for all time; and it did not mean that no man could EVER come unto the Father, but by Jesus.

Your opinion. Mine is different.

I don't really want to burn the Bible.

I'm glad you have had second thoughts. You were beginning to sound like a fundamentalist Islamist.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Nonsense! 9O%? You just made this up, didn't you? If not, please show your evidence.

Bad choice of term. Perhaps I should have said, "Most people...."

 

[Muffled]

So when Jesus said, "Some of you standing here will not taste death till you see me come back" he was just pulling their legs--"Fooled you! Haha!"

I believe it will happen but has not happened yet.

 

[Muffled]

Trailblazer That day has come, as Baha'u'llah has told us plainly about the Father.

samtonga43 said: That day has indeed come -- at Pentecost, almost 2000 years before the appearance of Baha'u'llah.

No that day did not come at Pentecost, because the Holy Spirit that was sent at Pentecost did not speak anything.
Only men can speak and shew you plainly to the Father.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

I believe Jesus is talking about His resurrection but it is quite conceivable that He is talking about the Paraclete as well. The Paraclete speaks to me all the time so you are in error on that.

 

[samtonga43]

Bad choice of term. Perhaps I should have said, "Most people...."

'Perhaps' is extraneous.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I believe it will happen but has not happened yet.

Yes, all prophecy that looks failed now can be labeled unfulfilled until a future date, except for this one. "Some you you standing here [right now]..."

 

[Trailblazer]

Nonsense! 9O%? You just made this up, didn't you? If not, please show your evidence.

Maybe not 90% but at least 50%... That is what I have observed and I have talked to more atheists on various forums within the last eight years than you can even imagine. The primary reason for atheists is that they do not see any evidence for God, but that is related to the Bible since atheists do not believe that the Bible is evidence for God, and in fact they believe that the Bible is evidence against the existence of any God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe Jesus is talking about His resurrection but it is quite conceivable that He is talking about the Paraclete as well. The Paraclete speaks to me all the time so you are in error on that.

You are free to believe anything you want to believe and I cannot prove you are wrong, nor can I prove that I am right.
As a Christian you are going to believe what you were taught to believe and as a Bahai I am going to believe what I have come to believe, so what's the point in arguing, after we have stated our beliefs?

But just for the record, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to anyone because I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the Bounty of God does not talk. Rather, the Bounty of God is sent to Messengers of God and they bring it to humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course He did.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6.

Jesus did not say that He would be the only way to the Father for all of time.
In fact, Jesus said that there would be another way to the Father in the future:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Your opinion. Mine is different.

Just like every other Christian..... Jesus is the Only Way.
You can believe that if you want to but that won't make it either true or rational It is an arrogant belief that Christianity is the only true religion. It also makes no sense at al because that would mean that 70% of the world population are all wrong about God and that your loving Christian God does not give a twit about all those people. You just cannot make this work and still say God is loving and just.

Christian belief is all based upon emotion, and it is selfish to the core.... "Jesus loves ME and I am saved. To hell with everyone else, that's their problem. If they knew the truth they would believe in Jesus." But I do believe in Jesus so that won't work with me. Muslims also believe in Jesus so that won't work with them either. What you really want is for everyone to believe in Christian doctrines that say that Jesus is the Only Way, not in Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, all prophecy that looks failed now can be labeled unfulfilled until a future date

It can be labeled unfulfilled but since it has been fulfilled that is just a label Christians use so they can keep waiting for Jesus, and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, till hell freezes over. There is nothing that can be done with this because what has not happened and will never happen is just a belief.

 

[samtonga43]

But just for the record, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to anyone because I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the Bounty of God does not talk.

Really Tb, only you and thousands of fundamentalists could take the word 'speak' (in this context) literally.

 

[samtonga43]

Just like every other Christian..... Jesus is the Only Way.
You can believe that if you want to but that won't make it either true or rational

Just like every other Bahai, Jesus is not the only way. You can believe that if you want to but that won't make it either true or rational.
(Is this how this works?)

It is an arrogant belief that Christianity is the only true religion. It also makes no sense at al because that would mean that 70% of the world population are all wrong about God and that your loving Christian God does not give a twit about all those people. You just cannot make this work and still say God is loving and just.
Christian belief is all based upon emotion, and it is selfish to the core.... "Jesus loves ME and I am saved. To hell with everyone else, that's their problem. If they knew the truth they would believe in Jesus." But I do believe in Jesus so that won't work with me. Muslims also believe in Jesus so that won't work with them either. What you really want is for everyone to believe in Christian doctrines that say that Jesus is the Only Way, not in Jesus.

What an angry Bahai you are, Tb.

 

[samtonga43]

It can be labeled unfulfilled but since it has been fulfilled that is just a label Christians use so they can keep waiting for Jesus, and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, till hell freezes over. There is nothing that can be done with this because what has not happened and will never happen is just a belief.

Proof?

 

[samtonga43]

Maybe not 90% but at least 50%... That is what I have observed and I have talked to more atheists on various forums within the last eight years than you can even imagine. The primary reason for atheists is that they do not see any evidence for God, but that is related to the Bible since atheists do not believe that the Bible is evidence for God, and in fact they believe that the Bible is evidence against the existence of any God.

Well, of course they do. They are atheists.

 

[Trailblazer]

Really Tb, only you and thousands of fundamentalists could take the word 'speak' (in this context) literally.

How do you know what I mean by speak?

 

[Trailblazer]

Just like every other Bahai, Jesus is not the only way.
(Is this how this works?)

That is now it works because Baha'is do not believe that Jesus is the only way.
The most basic Baha'i theology is that there are many Messengers of God but only one religion of God which is revealed in various chapters throughout the ages.

Baha’u’llah warns us never to make any distinction between any of the Messengers of God because they all arise to proclaim the same religion, since there is only one eternal religion of God. Baha’u’llah wrote that the works and acts of all the Messengers of God were all ordained by God, a reflection of His Will and Purpose, meaning that all the religions are equally true and all the Messengers are equal in stature.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

What an angry Bahai you are, Tb.

Who says I am angry? Righteous indignation about an injustice is not anger.
Disparaging my character is not going to help your case. Why not just stick with the facts?
Can you refute anything I wrote that you say I am angry about?

 

[Trailblazer]

Proof?

Proof that Christ has returned is in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears

Proof that Jesus is never coming back to earth is in the Bible.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, of course they do. They are atheists.

The question was why they are atheists.
For many atheists, the Bible is evidence against the existence of any God.