Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[Kenny]

Before being drawn to Christ I used this kind of language also. I thought I was 'clever' and that Christians were deluded and weak-minded.

I see here the same arguments I myself used against Christianity and I feel hopeful. If God can turn me around then he can do the same with our atheist friends.

That is very interesting... would you mind sending me a personal email detailing how you came to be drawn to Christ? I would be interested in knowing what happened.

 

[Kenny]

No, it wasn't. I do not think that you understand the concept of "logically".

And no, the admissions I gave were very qualified. They did not mean what you just claimed that they did. And no, I did not ignore your example. That is a falsehood. Go back and reread the post. You are reading selectively and incorrectly.

then you have to do one of the following:

1. Be more convincing in your presentation
2. Be better at communicating so that it is understandable.
3. Be more logical

One or maybe all three

Ultimately... I will still reap the benefits of prayer. I think, after all my experiences, you are too late to convince me with half-baked studies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

then you have to do one of the following:

1. Be more convincing in your presentation
2. Be better at communicating so that it is understandable.
3. Be more logical

One or maybe all three

Ultimately... I will still reap the benefits of prayer. I think, after all my experiences, you are too late to convince me with half-baked studies.

For an honest person my presentations have meet those standards far more than you did. You are accusing others of your sins again. Something that a Christian should never do. I found far better studies than you did, they did not have to wait years before publishing. There studies were done well enough so that well respected journals had no qualms about printing them. The one study you hitched your wagon to begin as old and out of date, it was rejected at least twice for publishing. And it took the author almost five years to find a publisher. And worst if all in the forty years since no one has repeated the results. That alone is enough to refute the study. In the sciences results are repeatable.

Meanwhile my main source was a meta study. That means that they studied numerous other studies and compared methods and results. Guess what? The better the study the closer they were to no effect from prayer.

You could not support your claims so now you are stooping to personal attacks. Tsk, tsk.

 

[Kenny]

For an honest person my presentations have meet those standards far more than you did. You are accusing others of your sins again. Something that a Christian should never do.

Only in your eye-sight. Self promotion should never be done by you.

Meanwhile my main source was a meta study. That means that they studied numerous other studies and compared methods and results. Guess what? The better the study the closer they were to no effect from prayer.

Every study must be studied for its veracity.

1) It is referencing Christian prayers
2) I showed you how different prayers have different results
3) It doesn't show what type of prayer people prayed
4) I can show you that who prayed also makes a difference (if we are using Christians as a standard)


You haven't addressed this simply questions and only say "they said it so it must be true" an appeal to authority.

So....

NO GO unless you can address important questions.

 

[samtonga43]

All that believers need to do is to come up with honest and well thought out arguments. Pretending that the Bible does not fail at times only makes it less likely that anyone will be convinced.

How do you deal with the many failures of the Bible/

Sorry, SZ, but just to be clear -- in what respect do you believe that the Bible 'fails'?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, SZ, but just to be clear -- in what respect do you believe that the Bible 'fails'?

Failed prophecy, the one that this thread is based upon for example. Fictitious events such as the entire books of Genesis and Exodus for a starter. Failed morality. Need I mention slavery?

It appears that you have read the Bible but have not studied it.

 

[samtonga43]

Failed prophecy, the one that this thread is based upon for example. Fictitious events such as the entire books of Genesis and Exodus for a starter. Failed morality. Need I mention slavery?

It appears that you have read the Bible but have not studied it.

I find this comment (bolded) interesting. Are you able to tell me how you have come to the conclusuion that I have not studied the Bible?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only in your eye-sight. Self promotion should never be done by you.

It was not only in my eyesight. Once again you only describe your self promotion. At least one other, and possible another noticed what you were doing. You once again accuse others of your sins.

Every study must be studied for its veracity.

1) It is referencing Christian prayers

No, you are referencing Christian prayers. No one else is making that gross error. The fact is that most of the prayers would have been "Christian prayers" in any study and that was point out to you. Why did you ignore that?

2) I showed you how different prayers have different results

No, you did not. That is a falsehood at best. The best you can do is to claim that there were different results and you did not even show that. Again, valid sources must be used to "show" something and you never did find a valid source.

3) It doesn't show what type of prayer people prayed

It does not need to. This was explained to you.

4) I can show you that who prayed also makes a difference (if we are using Christians as a standard)

I can show you that who prayed also makes a difference if we use a standard of some other religion. This is grasping at straws and you should know it. Once again, no matter what study one goes to the majority of people praying are going to match the majority religion of the area. Do you think that they were all in areas incredibly thinly populated with Christians? And do you not understand that the topic of all of these studies was a specific type of prayer from your list? I suggest that you go back and read what sort of prayer is being studied.

You haven't addressed this simply questions and only say "they said it so it must be true" an appeal to authority.

So....

NO GO unless you can address important questions.

No, your attempts to twist and dodge were all addressed several times. Please do not make false statements about others. That is breaking the Ninth Commandment even if you believe the nonsense that you are posting. It is not only rude, it is also technically a personal attack.

Your questions were not "important". If you can think of any. And if you can ask them properly, of course I will answer them. But for now it is clear that there is no evidence that intercessory prayer, whether Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or even Pastafarian work.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find this comment (bolded) interesting. Are you able to tell me how you have come to the conclusuion that I have not studied the Bible?

By your questions. Someone that had studied the Bible would know of the failures of the Bible.

 

[Kenny]

It was not only in my eyesight. Once again you only describe your self promotion. At least one other, and possible another noticed what you were doing. You once again accuse others of your sins.

Here you go self promoting again. Now you want to be the judge and jury.

Side note... "sins"? Isn't that a Christian term? I must be slowly getting to you.

No, you are referencing Christian prayers. No one else is making that gross error. The fact is that most of the prayers would have been "Christian prayers" in any study and that was point out to you. Why did you ignore that?

The researchers asked the members of three congregations -- St. Paul's Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City -- to deliver the prayers, using the patients' first names and the first initials of their last names.

Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer (Published 2006)

Why do you continue to twist what was reported? Three congregations.... all Christian.

No, you did not. That is a falsehood at best. The best you can do is to claim that there were different results and you did not even show that. Again, valid sources must be used to "show" something and you never did find a valid source.

It would be a lie if you say that I didn't show you an example of how some prayers are different than others. I referenced the scripture that showed you. It is a valid source (unless you are an atheist of course). But we are basing in on "Christian prayers" - therefore it is an acceptable source.

It does not need to. This was explained to you.

Yes it does and it was explained to you.

I can show you that who prayed also makes a difference if we use a standard of some other religion.

Relevance? Moving of goal posts.

No, your attempts to twist and dodge were all addressed several times. Please do not make false statements about others. That is breaking the Ninth Commandment even if you believe the nonsense that you are posting. It is not only rude, it is also technically a personal attack.

Your questions were not "important". If you can think of any. And if you can ask them properly, of course I will answer them. But for now it is clear that there is no evidence that intercessory prayer, whether Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or even Pastafarian work.

Another twisting....

The differences are VERY relevant... just not for you because of your bias position. I'm fine with you not believing... just don't spread the lie that prayer doesn't work. It may not work for you... but that is your prerogative.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here you go self promoting again. Now you want to be the judge and jury.

Side note... "sins"? Isn't that a Christian term? I must be slowly getting to you.

I am trying to speak a language that you understand. Sadly the points are going above your head. You continue to post personal attacks and falsehoods.

The researchers asked the members of three congregations -- St. Paul's Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City -- to deliver the prayers, using the patients' first names and the first initials of their last names.

Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer (Published 2006)

Why do you continue to twist what was reported? Three congregations.... all Christian.

What are you talking about? I did not even site that study that was another poster. Besides you were the one that was complaining about how it had to be Christians doing the praying, and unjustified demand if you think about it, I merely said that in the U.S. almost any study will be mostly Christian so purposefully demanding a Christian study is not needed. By the was, the fact that this study did use Christians supports my claim. There is no need to go out of one's way and be prejudiced in the manner that you demand.

Also this study actually showed a negative effect on recovery from prayer, but that part of the study is not really valid. luckily for you. The people knew that they were being prayed for and that can make them worry even more. It does not test the efficacy of prayer itself. It combines the efficacy of prayer, which the other study showed to be nonexistent, and how people react to others praying for them.

It would be a lie if you say that I didn't show you an example of how some prayers are different than others. I referenced the scripture that showed you. It is a valid source (unless you are an atheist of course). But we are basing in on "Christian prayers" - therefore it is an acceptable source.

No, you tried to use prayer types that were not even being discussed. All of the studies were on the nature of a specific type of prayer, intercessory prayer to be exact.

Yes it does and it was explained to you.

There goes that old Ninth Commandment into the trash again.

Relevance? Moving of goal posts.

Nope, You used a foolish argument. I used the same foolish argument. All you have done now is to claim that your own argument is irrelevant. One must reason consistently.

Another twisting....

The differences are VERY relevant... just not for you because of your bias position. I'm fine with you not believing... just don't spread the lie that prayer doesn't work. It may not work for you... but that is your prerogative.

An empty claim that you keep repeating. And remove the beam from your own eye first. By the way, it is not a lie that prayer does not work. If anything the evidence shows that it is a lie to claim that prayer does work. All you have for your personal claims are cherry picked anecdotes. They are of no more value than if I went and asked people whose relatives died of Covid19 whether they prayed for them or not. One cannot choose which examples to use after the event occurred. In a proper study one must start the observations before the outcome is known but after one knows whether the person is being prayed for or not. There is no reliable evidence that supports your beliefs and some that counters it.

 

[samtonga43]

By your questions. Someone that had studied the Bible would know of the failures of the Bible.

How long have you been studying the Bible?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How long have you been studying the Bible?

Just as you have, but without God colored blinders on.

 

[Kenny]

I am trying to speak a language that you understand. Sadly the points are going above your head. You continue to post personal attacks and falsehoods.

So, how does it feel when someone uses your tactics?

What are you talking about? I did not even site that study that was another poster. Besides you were the one that was complaining about how it had to be Christians doing the praying, and unjustified demand if you think about it,.

Whose complaining? I was explaining!

No, you tried to use prayer types that were not even being discussed. All of the studies were on the nature of a specific type of prayer, intercessory prayer to be exact.

Appropriately addressed... you just didn't like the truth behind it. Intercessory prayer -- When did Jesus or a disciple use intercessory prayer for healing?

There goes that old Ninth Commandment into the trash again.

I thought that is what you were doing.

Nope, You used a foolish argument. I used the same foolish argument. All you have done now is to claim that your own argument is irrelevant. One must reason consistently.

Denying truth doesn't change truth.

An empty claim that you keep repeating. And remove the beam from your own eye first. By the way, it is not a lie that prayer does not work. If anything the evidence shows that it is a lie to claim that prayer does work. All you have for your personal claims are cherry picked anecdotes. They are of no more value than if I went and asked people whose relatives died of Covid19 whether they prayed for them or not. One cannot choose which examples to use after the event occurred. In a proper study one must start the observations before the outcome is known but after one knows whether the person is being prayed for or not. There is no reliable evidence that supports your beliefs and some that counters it.

As I said you don't have to believe it and you don't have to receive it. I do and enjoy the benefits. I have no problem with you not believing it so long as you don't spread lies that it doesn't work.

I have a whole church of "reliable evidence" and there is a world-wide church that will disagree with you. I'm going to have a restful night and do hope you have one too... sincerely.

And will lift a prayer for you. Sincerely. who knows, you may be the next Samtoga43

 

[Subduction Zone]

So, how does it feel when someone uses your tactics?



Whose complaining? I was explaining!


Appropriately addressed... you just didn't like the truth behind it. Intercessory prayer -- When did Jesus or a disciple use intercessory prayer for healing?




I thought that is what you were doing.



Denying truth doesn't change truth.



As I said you don't have to believe it and you don't have to receive it. I do and enjoy the benefits. I have no problem with you not believing it so long as you don't spread lies that it doesn't work.

I have a whole church of "reliable evidence" and there is a world-wide church that will disagree with you. I'm going to have a restful night and do hope you have one too... sincerely.

And will lift a prayer for you. Sincerely. who knows, you may be the next Samtoga43

I will take your apparent trolling as an admission that you were wrong.

But you seriously need to learn what reliable evidence is. You have none. The same "evidence" that you have proves that the Muslims are right.

When you want to learn and are done with the dead end search of looking for excuses to believe I will gladly help you.

 

[samtonga43]

Just as you have, but without God colored blinders on.

So how long is that?

You say: "God colored blinders";
I say: "With eyes that at last are open"

 

[samtonga43]

I will take your apparent trolling as an admission that you were wrong.

But you seriously need to learn what reliable evidence is. You have none. The same "evidence" that you have proves that the Muslims are right.

When you want to learn and are done with the dead end search of looking for excuses to believe I will gladly help you.

Funny stuff! So many logical fallacies; so little time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So how long is that?

You say: "God colored blinders";
I say: "With eyes that at last are open"

But they are almost certainly all but squeezed shut. Tell me, how do you test your beliefs?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Funny stuff! So many logical fallacies; so little time.

Or as it appears in your case, so little knowledge of what a logical fallacy is in the first place.

 

[samtonga43]

Or as it appears in your case, so little knowledge of what a logical fallacy is in the first place.

It appears so to you because you don't realize that your posts are full of logical fallacies.