Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[Kenny]

No, none of those "work". At least not reliably and faith apparently never at all. All of those are subjective.

That is a subjective position.

And faith is subjective because the conclusions reached are dependent upon the person. If faith was reliable there would not be an endlessly different religions. We would all be Pastafarians.

Faith isn't subjective. Of course there are dependent upon a person. The will to live is dependent on the person.

"If faith was reliable there would not be an endlessly different religions." - false equivalency

Very subjective in your approach.

 

[Kenny]

No, they are just irritating. When someone makes false claims about you doesn't it ever bother you? At least when I judge I can support my claims.

That's why I always respond to your false claims. Your judgment are very biased and you always twist what is being said. And I can support my claims. I'll let you know the next time you do it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is a subjective position.

No, it is not because the failures of all of them can be objectively observed.

Faith isn't subjective. Of course there are dependent upon a person. The will to live is dependent on the person.

"If faith was reliable there would not be an endlessly different religions." - false equivalency

Very subjective in your approach.

Faith is the very embodiment of subjective. Your logic just disappeared so please do not abuse logical fallacies. It is not a false equivalence to point out that endlessly varying religions are due to the fact that faith is extremely subjective.

Do you even understand what the terms that you are abusing mean?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's why I always respond to your false claims. Your judgment are very biased and you always twist what is being said. And I can support my claims. I'll let you know the next time you do it.

Enough with the personal attacks. What false claims have I made? My judgment is far less biased than yours and the only times that I "twist" things are in response to dishonest posts. My one flaw is that I sometimes mirror my opponents. If you see me "twist" something in response to you look at your own claims and try to see why.

 

[Kenny]

No, it is not because the failures of all of them can be objectively observed.

VERY subjective. I objectively observed the failure of treatment for Rush Limbaugh. Does that mean the medical profession doesn't work for cancer? hardly.

you will have to do better than that.

Faith is the very embodiment of subjective. Your logic just disappeared so please do not abuse logical fallacies. It is not a false equivalence to point out that endlessly varying religions are due to the fact that faith is extremely subjective.

Do you even understand what the terms that you are abusing mean?

As always, attacking the poster is a sign that you can't deal with the subject. It is a false equivalence and simply trying to side-step it by attacking the poster is proof that I was correct.

 

[Kenny]

Enough with the personal attacks. What false claims have I made? My judgment is far less biased than yours and the only times that I "twist" things are in response to dishonest posts. My one flaw is that I sometimes mirror my opponents. If you see me "twist" something in response to you look at your own claims and try to see why.

As I said, I will point it out the next time you do it,

 

[PruePhillip]

It was still within a hundred years of Jesus' supposed resurrection. By the time it had become apparent Jesus wasn't returning anytime soon the gospels were already circulating in some form. Too late to put the cat back in the bag. Eschatology began kicking in, the belief that if Jesus hadn't return now it would be at some future time.

So the Gospel was going out to the Gentiles, and we would see the rise and
fall of false Christianity ('no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride
and bridegroom) the return of the Jews to Jerusalem (when they didn't even
fully departed till about AD135) and the whole purpose of God's plan that
salvation would be to all nations - and all this would happen within a single
life time? Most of the nations were not even known in First Century AD, yet
Jesus said the Gospel must first be preached in all nations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

VERY subjective. I objectively observed the failure of treatment for Rush Limbaugh. Does that mean the medical profession doesn't work for cancer? hardly.

you will have to do better than that.

No, very objective. And the medical profession is honest when they say that a person's reactions may vary. They are subjective responses. But guess what? Science can often be applied to those responses because they fall within a statistical range. So one can give a person their odds of recovery. They can also give the odds of recovery without treatment (for most cancers those odds are very close to zero). Again, this illustrates that you do not understand what objective and subjective are.

As always, attacking the poster is a sign that you can't deal with the subject. It is a false equivalence and simply trying to side-step it by attacking the poster is proof that I was correct.

There was no attack. There was an observation that you do not understand what objective and subjective are. You keep making rather basic errors. Asking a question is not an attack in this case. Identifying an error or a poor reasoning pattern is not an attack. Those that are in the wrong quite often make the mistake of thinking that corrections are attacks because if they followed through they would have to greatly change how they approached problems.

Faith is not objective because there is no real statistics supporting it. To often believers simply claim "you did not try hard enough" to people that could not find faith. Or where faith did not work for them. With that sort of attitude one cannot make a proper analysis to see if there is even any real value in faith.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I said, I will point it out the next time you do it,

I doubt if you can, but feel free to try.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So the Gospel was going out to the Gentiles, and we would see the rise and
fall of false Christianity ('no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride
and bridegroom) the return of the Jews to Jerusalem (when they didn't even
fully departed till about AD135) and the whole purpose of God's plan that
salvation would be to all nations - and all this would happen within a single
life time? Most of the nations were not even known in First Century AD, yet
Jesus said the Gospel must first be preached in all nations.

Jesus also prophesized that he would be back within the lifetime of at least some of his apostles. We must have some extremely long lived apostles out there.

 

[Trailblazer]

They are correct, Jesus said that he will literally return to the sentimental shrine of his human incarnation. You are conflating (2) separate issues; his spiritual presence and his in person return.

The same Jesus in the same body is NEVER coming back to this world because His physical body died on the cross. Jesus now has a spiritual body in heaven, because that is the ONLY kind of body that exists in heaven, as Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15:40, 44, 50

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

Verse 50 means that dying bodies (physical bodies) cannot inherit what will last forever (heaven).

As an aside, the same Jesus in the same body is not coming back to this world unless the Bible has serious errors or unless Jesus lied: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

If the Bible has these kinds of errors why should any of the other chapters and verses be trusted to be accurate, and if the Bible is not accurate, all of Christianity comes crashing down like a house of cards. This is a serious logical problem for Christians who believe that the same Jesus that walked the Earth 2000 years ago is going to return to this world.

 

[Colt]

The same Jesus in the same body is NEVER coming back to this world because His physical body died on the cross. Jesus now has a spiritual body in heaven, because that is the ONLY kind of body that exists in heaven, as Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15:40, 44, 50

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

Verse 50 means that dying bodies (physical bodies) cannot inherit what will last forever (heaven).

As an aside, the same Jesus in the same body is not coming back to this world unless the Bible has serious errors or unless Jesus lied: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

If the Bible has these kinds of errors why should any of the other chapters and verses be trusted to be accurate, and if the Bible is not accurate, all of Christianity comes crashing down like a house of cards. This is a serious logical problem for Christians who believe that the same Jesus that walked the Earth 2000 years ago is going to return to this world.

That's right, we can assume that Jesus will return in his celestial body. He poured out his spirit upon all flesh at Pentecost.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's right, we can assume that Jesus will return in his celestial body. He poured out his spirit upon all flesh at Pentecost.

Then we can consider when asked by Jesus, Peter said Jesus was Christ (the annointed one), to which Jesus praised Peter and said that is the belief the Church would be built upon.

As such, we know Christ is not Born of flesh, the Metephor of the Virgin Birth with the story of the Dove at Jesus Baptisim gives us the hint of how Christ is Annointed in this world. How Jesus as Christ can say I am the First Messenger and I will be the Last.

Regards Tony

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

So the Gospel was going out to the Gentiles, and we would see the rise and
fall of false Christianity ('no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride
and bridegroom) the return of the Jews to Jerusalem (when they didn't even
fully departed till about AD135) and the whole purpose of God's plan that
salvation would be to all nations - and all this would happen within a single
life time? Most of the nations were not even known in First Century AD, yet
Jesus said the Gospel must first be preached in all nations.

God could bring the gospel to the entire world in a split second if He was really interested in saving souls, couldn't He? I mean He's God. He could line all the stars in heavens up to read "Believe in My son, Jesus", couldn't He?

But by leaving a job to a process that was doomed to fail from the start, 2000 years later He is now presiding over the fast demise of Christianity in the 1st world as millions upon millions of Christians walk away from the Christian faith and enter the world of "nones"--those who are choosing spirituality and dumping religion.

I mean I have to ask--why God chooses to do this in such a half-baked manner that He's actually destroying His own religion I have no idea. I constantly go back to this idea that we may be looking at this all wrong. Instead of thinking that Jesus did a good thing telling 12 men to go out and preach to all nations--a task a million men trying to bring the gospel to all nations couldn't do, let alone 12 dumb fishermen--instead maybe we should be looking at reality: God doesn't lift a finger to move any of this along. He sits idly by as millions of His children renounce their faith and walk away from Him. Is this truly what God wants? If not why in the hell doesn't He do something to stop it????? Perhaps it's time to acknowledge what is right under our collective noses: God is a deist God. He couldn't a damn about us and he doesn't interact with us on any level. That's the reality we see all around us. That's how I see thing anyway.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's right, we can assume that Jesus will return in his celestial body.

How do you explain the verses below? Even if you can explain John 14:19 by saying that we won't be able to SEE His celestial body, if we cannot SEE it then how would be know it was here? However, you cannot explain John 17:11 because no more means no more. So if these verse are incorrect, why should we believe any other Bible verses? The Bible is either accurate or it is inaccurate, you cannot pick and choose. This is logic 101 stuff.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

That came true after few days, when some of them saw “the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

Oddly enough, 1213 that was rationalization No 1 in the link I provided.

 

[PruePhillip]

God could bring the gospel to the entire world in a split second if He was really interested in saving souls, couldn't He? I mean He's God. He could line all the stars in heavens up to read "Believe in My son, Jesus", couldn't He?

But by leaving a job to a process that was doomed to fail from the start, 2000 years later He is now presiding over the fast demise of Christianity in the 1st world as millions upon millions of Christians walk away from the Christian faith and enter the world of "nones"--those who are choosing spirituality and dumping religion.

I mean I have to ask--why God chooses to do this in such a half-baked manner that He's actually destroying His own religion I have no idea. I constantly go back to this idea that we may be looking at this all wrong. Instead of thinking that Jesus did a good thing telling 12 men to go out and preach to all nations--a task a million men trying to bring the gospel to all nations couldn't do, let alone 12 dumb fishermen--instead maybe we should be looking at reality: God doesn't lift a finger to move any of this along. He sits idly by as millions of His children renounce their faith and walk away from Him. Is this truly what God wants? If not why in the hell doesn't He do something to stop it????? Perhaps it's time to acknowledge what is right under our collective noses: God is a deist God. He couldn't a damn about us and he doesn't interact with us on any level. That's the reality we see all around us. That's how I see thing anyway.

In the New Testament mid Century there were about 180 RECORDED as having gone
out preaching. Those 'dumb' fishermen weren't so dumb. Peter and Andrew had their
own fishing business. James and John worked for their father's business. Levi was a
tax collector.
Others who didn't preach were quite well off too - Mary's alabaster box would have been
worth about $70,000 today. Nichodemus was a high ranking member of the Jewish
Council. Zachius was rich. The Centurion was well off too. And all these people would
have been literate and educated. Overall I say the first Christians were better off than
their contemporaries, on an average basis.

 

[Trailblazer]

God could bring the gospel to the entire world in a split second if He was really interested in saving souls, couldn't He? I mean He's God. He could line all the stars in heavens up to read "Believe in My son, Jesus", couldn't He?

God could do that if the gospel message that He wanted everyone to believe, but that is not what God wants us to follow in this new age. God wants everyone to follow Baha'u'llah, and the Baha'is have made darned sure that the message is available to everyone in the world and can be accessed in a split second. It is called the internet.

Baha’i Reference Library online older version
Baha’i Reference Library online new version

 

[Colt]

How do you explain the verses below? Even if you can explain John 14:19 by saying that we won't be able to SEE His celestial body, if we cannot SEE it then how would be know it was here? However, you cannot explain John 17:11 because no more means no more. So if these verse are incorrect, why should we believe any other Bible verses? The Bible is either accurate or it is inaccurate, you cannot pick and choose. This is logic 101 stuff.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

However Jesus returns, he will make himself visible as he did after he resurrected.

Simple, In John 17:11 The Son of God is preparing to leave, he is praying for his apostles. "I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you."

You see conflict where there is none. Were you Christian before becoming a follower of Baha'i?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

What I quoted IS a literal return. Christians know that Jesus returned in spirit on Pentecost and will literally return in person in the future.

You appear to be deliberately misunderstanding this? Its you who doesn't know something not Christians.

I don't think you're hear my question, cOLTER. I asked:

would millions upon millions of Christians be spending millions of their hard-earned $$$$'s buying hundreds of millions of books about a literal VISIBLE bodily return of Jesus riding a white horse to the earth with billions of his saints behind him at the height of the Armageddon battle IF they believed he already returned spirituality 2000 years ago?