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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
When Jesus comes back in full person... everyone will see him and there would not be any places more closely attached to him than others.

Jesus COULD do that right now if God wanted him to and that would cause the whole world to give up their 1000 different faiths and turn to Jesus as their Lord and savior if God is honestly and truly is interested in getting the world to believe in His son as man's savior. I know I would if he did that. The fact he doesn't utter a peep outside the Bible is proof enough to me he is a deist God who doesn't give two figs who or what we believe in or what we do. The extreme suffering, misery, abuse and agonizing deaths of 70% of the world's children tells me He couldn't care less about us because if He did, He would do at least a little something about it like any good father here on earth. But He doesn't lift a finger, preferring instead to leave an impossible task up to humans. Like I said, top contender for Worst Father of the Age award.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
No no no, you have it one hundred percent backward. You appear to be merely looking for excuses to believe.

But from your posts you appear to be a literalist. You appear to believe in events that never happened in the Bible, but those events would make God a liar to boot. For example the evidence against the Flood myth is so strong that the only way the flood could have happened if if God lied after the fact by planting false evidence.

I did not become an atheist by choice. Most of us did not. Most of us, in the U.S. at least, because atheists through a superior understanding of the Bible.

Exactly right. Most atheists became atheist right after reading the Bible with their thinking caps on. Most Christians rarely read the Bible. That's why they're still Christians.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
So... why did the Gospel writers give us these accounts if indeed it was obvious He didn't
return again? Don't people say the Gospels were all written after AD70 because Jesus
mentioned the fall of the temple?
And... what do we do with the various passages where Jesus speaks of His return in the
far future?

It was still within a hundred years of Jesus' supposed resurrection. By the time it had become apparent Jesus wasn't returning anytime soon the gospels were already circulating in some form. Too late to put the cat back in the bag. Eschatology began kicking in, the belief that if Jesus hadn't return now it would be at some future time.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Jesus said that he will literally return to the sentimental shrine of his human incarnation.

Where in heck does it say that in the Bible????????
1f632.png
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Well I assure you that it has an answer....you have never obviously asked the right Christians....;)

What people fail to understand is the reason why God has allowed this situation to go on for so long.....
What was the point of the exercise that is outlined in Genesis and finalized in Revelation?

Humans, under influence of the devil, (God's first rebel) were basically told that God was a liar and that they were better off making up their own minds about what was good and what wasn't....so how are we doing on that score after thousands of years of trying to do things without God's interference? He stepped out of the picture for a reason...to allow his human children to see for themselves what it meant to try and live a peaceful and happy life without him. When have we ever had such a life? We all know we want it, but we can never achieve it....why?

God also had rebels in his other family who needed to learn the same lesson about obedience to their Sovereign Lord...the maker of the rules and the enforcer of his laws.The first rebel ensnared others with his lies....and these powerful creatures could do real damage. This is why the whole lesson was conducted in their time and not ours. (2 Peter 3:8) God's entire family of intelligent creatures were going to benefit from this lesson.

In Genesis it sets the scene for all that comes after. The results and impact of sin were felt when the pair found themselves evicted from their paradise home and all that went with it. They would now have to till cursed ground to eke out an existence and raise their children. Within one generation, murder was committed and this set things in motion for all that followed. Humans would go on proving how inept they were at trying to govern themselves....allowing emotions to dictate their actions instead of God's commands.
Pride, jealousy, covetousness and all manner of negative feelings would now be displayed in their interactions with one another. Any peace they enjoyed was taken away by someone imposing their will on others.

God's command to the first pair was to "fill the earth", so God allowed them to do so, despite the fact that sin was now in the world and part of the human psyche. Yet the Creator never left them without his guidance, should they wish to accept it of their own free will. He would not force them to obey him, but would ultimately punish them if they disobeyed.....this is what happened in the garden. They knew the penalty before they ate of the fruit and death did eventually overtake them, but not before they experienced the heartbreak of pain and suffering before death came to them.

We are taking part in the greatest object lesson in the history of the world. The outcome for ourselves is what we choose to do with the life we have been given. It will either be treated as a precious gift along with all the wonders of creation that still tell us how great and generous our Creator is....or we will be like spoiled brats, whining and throwing tantrums because 'Daddy' didn't give us everything we wanted.

How much of what we lament as "wrong" in the world is all our own doing? How good could life be if we had just done as we were told in the first place?

If we are parents, what is it that makes us proud of our children? Isn't it the fact that they do what is pleasing to us, not only to demonstrate that they are mature and can see the folly of caving in to selfishness, but because they can see that our life experience (even the things we are not proud of) can save them from repeating our stupid mistakes. Isn't that the reason why we repeat the same mistakes time after time? We never learn the lessons of the past.
We hope that they will consider what impact their behavior has on others and if you stand back and look at the world......imagine if everyone did that? What is stopping them? They are.

Are you getting the reason for the lesson yet? o_O

What a beautiful insightful reply Deeje! We are the ones shouting ‘I did it MY way”. Enter WW1 and WW2. And we say we don’t need God’s ways. Enter drug addiction, suicide, domestic violence, rape, pollution, dictatorships, oppression, crime levels through the roof, - but we are doing just fine - disease, overpopulation, skyrocketing of depression and mental illnesses but yep, we have this wonderful glorious material civilisation full of consumerism and unemployment and poverty. Terrorism and gun violence rampant. Not to mention racism and its riots burning cities and in sport and universal corruption in governments worldwide, But we still know better don’t we?

I believe any person with a shred of common sense can see clearly that our ways are only bringing more misery upon ourselves and what you have so intelligently pointed out is pure truth, yet we will continue to go our own way until it becomes so unbearable that I believe the pendulum will fully swing back to God and a virtuous unselfish society will be born. But God has left us alone to learn this lesson for ourselves the hard way because we refused to put our trust in Him but believed we could do it better. Have we?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matthew 16: 27, 28)...

That came true after few days, when some of them saw “the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

Most of the problems people have with the Bible seem to come from the irresistible desire to cherry pick lines for own purposes.

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24: 25-34)...

Perhaps they saw already all things Jesus meant? I think Jesus means with “this generation” that generation who sees all those happened, not necessary that generation who was with Jesus there.

But, I think also in this case it would be good to notices that Jesus continues by saying:

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

Even Jesus didn’t know the exact end date. He doesn’t give a date and so he can’t be wrong about it.

...
Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)...


Jesus was raised from the death after 3 days. So, obviously they didn’t finish going through the towns of Israel, before he came back.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…
(Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return
first thanks for the reply, second, you ERROR, because the Lord Jesus return is a two-fold return. first in Spirit, (manifestation of the Spiritual Gifts, which happen on the day of pentecost), which fulfils your, A. Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." for in John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." as said, this is audience relevance, and he did on the day of Pentecost. so, some of them standing there did not taste death. this is his first of his two fold return. the second .... in "APPERANCE", will fulfill, 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17 and Matthew 24: 25-34.

please understand his two fold return. scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." his first return was not in "apperance", but in Spirit, (Manifestation), and every eye did not see him. but in his second "apperance"... EVERY EYE will see him, supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

in conclusion. in his two fold return, is in A. Spirit, which was in manifestation of the Spiritual Gifts. and B. in bodily Form, when every eye will see him, which is yet to happen. this is called his Parousia in flesh and bone, but no blood.

so that should answer all of your returns questions. so yes, he showed up in bodily form, which is yet to come.

PICJAG
101G
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Where in heck does it say that in the Bible????????
1f632.png
Literal return:
images.png

43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Yup. The presence of the Creator of the Universe - known as three realms.
The first, second and third heavens.

Since Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, you better get with it, lest you remain in Hell (Hades).
Oh, I am in no doubt whatsoever that Heaven is, as you say, the presence of the Creator of the Universe. However I don't believe that any of us - even your good self - have any idea of what being in Heaven is like. We just don't have the words. Of course, perhaps you are an exception.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Also Paul claimed to have met Jesus when they were warned to not believe it.

I believe that refers to a physical Christ but Paul saw an image of Christ. The fact is that Christianity is based on a continuous relationship with Christ through the Paraclete but it is not a physical relationship until Jesus returns and that will be in the sky.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Literal return:
View attachment 47897
43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Yes, but that could be a literal return too. It's all in how you interpret such vague nomenclature. 74x12 and millions of other Christians interprets these statements as a literal return to earth. that's why prophecy books about the 2nd coming are a billion dollar business. Look at all the loot Tim LaHaye made on the Left Behind books. Did the people buy all these books because they believe Jesus already returned spiritually in 30 CE?????
p49esb1adofng.png
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…
(Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return
My take is, Jesus was talking about His return, after resurrection.
Some will be resurrected as glorified, and some will return for damnation. Even those who pierced His body will be there when He returns according to Scriptures.
Thus, when Jesus says, some of you be here when I will return, He means, when He returns, these people, would be there, because they will be resurrected at the End Time.
We should see these verses quoted in OP, in connection with the resurrection Day, which according to Bible was to happen at a far distance in time.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Yes, but that could be a literal return too. It's all in how you interpret such vague nomenclature. 74x12 and millions of other Christians interprets these statements as a literal return to earth. that's why prophecy books about the 2nd coming are a billion dollar business. Look at all the loot Tim LaHaye made on the Left Behind books. Did the people buy all these books because they believe Jesus already returned spiritually in 30 CE?????
p49esb1adofng.png
What I quoted IS a literal return. Christians know that Jesus returned in spirit on Pentecost and will literally return in person in the future.

You appear to be deliberately misunderstanding this? Its you who doesn't know something not Christians.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Or at least it seemed to work for you. The problem is that different religions work equally well for other people. That tells us "it works for me" is a worthless test. What one needs is an objective test, not a subjective one.
Yes, many things work.... would each one just be subjective? Does AA work? Does faith work? Does psychology work? Are they subjective? I don't think so. But it seems like if it is faith (for you) it is subjective. The question is, why do you always see faith as subjective.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Really? You should be the last to throw stones. You forget too soon at times.
So... it would seem to you that indeed the stones are hitting the mark... Lest you forget, it was you that judged first and thus you opened the door for judgment.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yes, many things work.... would each one just be subjective? Does AA work? Does faith work? Does psychology work? Are they subjective? I don't think so. But it seems like if it is faith (for you) it is subjective. The question is, why do you always see faith as subjective.
No, none of those "work". At least not reliably and faith apparently never at all. All of those are subjective.

And faith is subjective because the conclusions reached are dependent upon the person. If faith was reliable there would not be an endlessly different religions. We would all be Pastafarians.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So... it would seem to you that indeed the stones are hitting the mark... Lest you forget, it was you that judged first and thus you opened the door for judgment.
No, they are just irritating. When someone makes false claims about you doesn't it ever bother you? At least when I judge I can support my claims.
 
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