Jesus can't be God.

[Mikail Hakeem]

In Islam, Jesus (pbuh), is very much loved, respected, and looked up to. We believe everything from the virgin birth to his return to defeat the anti-christ. The only thing we disagree on about Jesus (pbuh) is his lack of divinity. Yes, kind of a big difference but still..

In the Bible he prayed with his head on the ground, fasted, and did not eat pork. This is how every Muslim lives. So, it's safe to say Islam follows the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

One of my biggest issues is this...
Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to? If he were in fact God.. why would he pray to God.. that'd be praying to himself, right? There would be no reason for him to come here in human form to kill himself. That's insane. God is God.. he didn't have to kill himself/son of himself combo to forgive sins. He's pure and loving.. He can just do that.

He prayed to God like all the other Prophets (peace and Gods blessings upon them all).
He speaks of God as being the ONLY one who is all knowing.

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

 

[Kenny]

In Islam, Jesus (pbuh), is very much loved, respected, and looked up to. We believe everything from the virgin birth to his return to defeat the anti-christ. The only thing we disagree on about Jesus (pbuh) is his lack of divinity. Yes, kind of a big difference but still..

In the Bible he prayed with his head on the ground, fasted, and did not eat pork. This is how every Muslim lives. So, it's safe to say Islam follows the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

One of my biggest issues is this...
Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to? If he were in fact God.. why would he pray to God.. that'd be praying to himself, right? There would be no reason for him to come here in human form to kill himself. That's insane. God is God.. he didn't have to kill himself/son of himself combo to forgive sins. He's pure and loving.. He can just do that.

He prayed to God like all the other Prophets (peace and Gods blessings upon them all).
He speaks of God as being the ONLY one who is all knowing.

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

OK... what we have above are good issues... but I don't see any questions.

In other words, if you are already have made up your mind and this is just your way of expressing what your mind believes, then OK.

But if you are asking "why" did Jesus HAVE to be God in the flesh and/or how did He make all of this happen to fulfill what Moses (pbuh) said and did, then we have room for discussion.

Which of the two is it?

 

[robocop (actually)]

In Islam, Jesus (pbuh), is very much loved, respected, and looked up to. We believe everything from the virgin birth to his return to defeat the anti-christ. The only thing we disagree on about Jesus (pbuh) is his lack of divinity. Yes, kind of a big difference but still..

In the Bible he prayed with his head on the ground, fasted, and did not eat pork. This is how every Muslim lives. So, it's safe to say Islam follows the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

One of my biggest issues is this...
Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to? If he were in fact God.. why would he pray to God.. that'd be praying to himself, right? There would be no reason for him to come here in human form to kill himself. That's insane. God is God.. he didn't have to kill himself/son of himself combo to forgive sins. He's pure and loving.. He can just do that.

He prayed to God like all the other Prophets (peace and Gods blessings upon them all).
He speaks of God as being the ONLY one who is all knowing.

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

Yes. He prayed to YHWH and therefore couldn't be YHWH, but then he became one with YHWH in purpose taking on his name.

 

[Enoch07]

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

Since we are in the business of offering up opinions today. I feel like Jesus is probably more upset at middle aged men that marry 10 year old girls and force them into bed.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

The notion of "dear me, I pray that I will forgive myself for..." seems a bit suspicious IMO

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

In Islam, Jesus (pbuh), is very much loved, respected, and looked up to. We believe everything from the virgin birth to his return to defeat the anti-christ. The only thing we disagree on about Jesus (pbuh) is his lack of divinity. Yes, kind of a big difference but still..

In the Bible he prayed with his head on the ground, fasted, and did not eat pork. This is how every Muslim lives. So, it's safe to say Islam follows the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

One of my biggest issues is this...
Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to? If he were in fact God.. why would he pray to God.. that'd be praying to himself, right? There would be no reason for him to come here in human form to kill himself. That's insane. God is God.. he didn't have to kill himself/son of himself combo to forgive sins. He's pure and loving.. He can just do that.

He prayed to God like all the other Prophets (peace and Gods blessings upon them all).
He speaks of God as being the ONLY one who is all knowing.

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

There is nothing seriously wrong with what you say here. Your thoughts are all valid.
Your issues state opinions of yours and they are valid opinions.
I’ll offer mine.
Should your opinions be correct or not, I don’t believe they will effect your spiritual life on earth or your destiny once you die here.
Just my opinion. That being said, you seem to have a pretty high opinion of Jesus. Why is that? And how does your feeling about Him effect your way of life on earth? For example, do you ever read any of His words? Would you use His life, as detailed in the NT, as a role model? Just wondering.
Thanks for starting an interesting thread.

 

[Brickjectivity]

***Mod: This is not a religious debate area, so stay on topics everyone agrees about here. Arguing about this topic should be in Religious Debates, Scriptural Debate or Same Faith Debates. This area is for discussing things like alms, orphanages, favorite scripture verses etc***

 

[Deeje]

Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to?

He prayed to God like all the other Prophets (peace and Gods blessings upon them all).

Just a question....since you are a convert to Islam from Christianity, can you please tell me why Muslims always say pbuh after every mention of Jesus' name? (is it said after a verbal mention of just in writing?) And I notice the same even when prophets are mentioned generally. Is this a ritualistic thing? Is it just a way of demonstrating respect....or will something awful happen if you mention his name without that peace blessing?

It seems rather superstitious to me. And no other Abrahamic religion does this. Can you enlighten me?

 

[danieldemol]

In the Baha'i faith, Jesus and other Messengers are likened to pure mirrors.

Similar to how a clear mirror reflects the image and attributes of the sun such as it's heat and light, but the sun does not descend to dwell in the mirror - the pure mirror of Jesus' soul reflected the attributes of God such as Love Justice and Kindness.

Abdul-Baha states;
God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished mirror...

... the Perfect Man is in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and perfections. So the Reality of Christ was a clear and polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness. The Sun of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity, the Sun did not descend to dwell and abide in the mirror. No, it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and perfection.

 

[wizanda]

I feel Jesus (pbuh), himself, is very upset his name and message has become an idol of worship to the majority of mankind.

Not upset by it, the scriptures reveal prophecy says it was meant to happen specifically like this; it is a way to catch out all the workers of iniquity, so they can all be removed at Judgement day.

Who did Jesus (pbuh) pray to? If he were in fact God.. why would he pray to God.. that'd be praying to himself, right?

The Tanakh says there is One God Most High (El Elyon), 'and' then a council of Elohim... YHVH Elohim became Yeshua Elohim... Which translates as The Lord to Be becomes The Lord that Saves.

'and' = 2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13

Divine Council = Divine Council - Wikipedia

YHVH becomes Yeshua = H3444 + H1961 = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2

The whole of Heaven is Oneness, and all Elohim are servants of the One God Most High; the problem is human comprehension making hierarchies, and not understanding all of their religious texts as One.

In my opinion.

 

[arthra]

can you please tell me why Muslims always say pbuh after every mention of Jesus' name?

I think a Muslim can easily address this question as well but we have something similar in the Baha'i Writings and I'll provide a few examples.. It's a matter I believe of showing our respect and deference to a Messenger of God. "pbuh" refers to "Peace be upon Him".. In the Baha'i Writings there are similar expressions:

"In brief, His Holiness Moses -- Upon whom be peace! -- founded the law of God, purified the morals of the people of Israel and gave them an impetus toward nobler and higher attainments."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 95)

"The eighth Glad-Tidings The pious deeds of the monks and priests among the followers of the Spirit [Jesus] -- upon Him be the peace of God -- are remembered in His presence."

(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 23)



"The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muhammad, the son of Abdu'llah -- peace be upon Him!"

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 56)

 

[Deeje]

I think a Muslim can easily address this question as well but we have something similar in the Baha'i Writings and I'll provide a few examples.. It's a matter I believe of showing our respect and deference to a Messenger of God. "pbuh" refers to Peace be upon Him.. In the Baha'i Writings there are similar expressions:

"In brief, His Holiness Moses -- Upon whom be peace! -- founded the law of God, purified the morals of the people of Israel and gave them an impetus toward nobler and higher attainments."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 95)

"The eighth Glad-Tidings The pious deeds of the monks and priests among the followers of the Spirit [Jesus] -- upon Him be the peace of God -- are remembered in His presence."

(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 23)



"The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muhammad, the son of Abdu'llah -- peace be upon Him!"

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 56)

Is there a distinct difference between Baha'i and Islam? I know that there is a great similarity....but what is the difference?
Why are Baha'is not Muslims? Is it for the same reason that Christians are not Jews?

In Judaism, which came first, why do we not see this "pbuh" in their reference to the prophets in their scripture or writings?

 

[arthra]

Is there a distinct difference between Baha'i and Islam? I know that there is a great similarity....but what is the difference?
Why are Baha'is not Muslims? Is it for the same reason that Christians are not Jews?
In Judaism, which came first, why do we not see this "pbuh" in their reference to the prophets in their scripture or writings?

Thanks for the question "Deeje"! My immediate response would be to suggest a comparison. Consider perhaps how the early Christians went through a process where they emerged from Judaism, the Baha'i Faith in somewhat similar ways emerged from Islam in the mid nineteenth century in the Middle East. The distinction between Islam and the Baha'i Faith is that as an independent religion Baha'is recognize the Bab as Mahdi or Qa'im of Islamic prophecy and Baha'u'llah as the Manifestation of God for this age promised by the Bab. Many Muslims see Prophet Muhammad as the "final Prophet" while we accept the Bab and Baha'u'llah after Him. Baha'is have their own calendar, Holy Days, Qiblih pilgrimages and revealed Writings.

The following are some statements of reverence and respect for Moses and Israel:

"1,13 Moses the servant of the LORD gave you beyond the Jordan toward the sunrising."

(Nev'im (Prophets), Yehoshua (Joshua))


(Kesuvim (Writings), Tehillim (Psalms))

12,6 "Moses the servant of the LORD and the children of Israel smote them; and Moses the servant of the LORD"

(Nev'im (Prophets), Yehoshua (Joshua))

125,5 But as for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD will lead them away with the workers of iniquity. {N}
Peace be upon Israel. {P}

Peace unto you, ministerial angels, messengers of [the] Highest,
from the King, king(s) of the kings — the holy, blessed He.
[May] your coming [be] to peace, messengers of the peace, messengers of [the] Highest,
from the King, king(s) of the kings — the holy, blessed He.
Bless me for peace, messengers of the peace, messengers of [the] Highest,
from the King, king(s) of the kings — the holy, blessed He.
[May] your departure [be] to peace, messengers of the peace, messengers of [the] Highest,
from the King, king(s) of the kings — the holy, blessed He.

Shalom Aleichem (liturgy) - Wikipedia

Sahih International
"Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace."

- Surih Al-Ahzab 33:56

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yes. He prayed to YHWH and therefore couldn't be YHWH, but then he became one with YHWH in purpose taking on his name.

Still confusing but I understand the significance which you brought.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Since we are in the business of offering up opinions today. I feel like Jesus is probably more upset at middle aged men that marry 10 year old girls and force them into bed.

Well Jesus' own mother was said to be around 14 and Joseph much older...You do realize the life expectancy was around 30 right? 30 in those times were considered old even in the Middle Ages of Europe. Even ages 23 was considered old during those times. History helps with this understanding because those times were different. You're looking at it from a 21st century perspective.

 

[Enoch07]

Well Jesus' own mother was said to be around 14 and Joseph much older...You do realize the life expectancy was around 30 right? 30 in those times were considered old even in the Middle Ages of Europe. Even ages 23 was considered old during those times. History helps with this understanding because those times were different. You're looking at it from a 21st century perspective.

Joseph didn't force her to marry him, and she was still a virgin. So that is 2 huge differences.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Joseph didn't force her to marry him, and she was still a virgin. So that is 2 huge differences.

Who forced who to marry? /where are you getting this? But you didn't address my comment. It was normal to marry young even pre-pubescent age. Desert peoples included.

 

[Enoch07]

Who forced who to marry? /where are you getting this? But you didn't address my comment. It was normal to marry young even pre-pubescent age. Desert peoples included.

Sure I did. You said it was common for 14 year old girls to get married back then which it was. But Muhammad married his wife when she was 6 or 7 and consummated (that means have sex btw) the marriage around age 10. Even back then a 6 or 7 year old is not capable of making a life altering decision of getting married, and 10 is too young for sex, even back then. The marriage was set up by Aisha's parents mind you. So she did not consent, nor was she even able to consent at the age of 6. Muhammad was 53 at the time.

Muhammad's wives - Wikipedia then scroll down to Aisha bint Abu Bakr

 

[wheatpenny]

Just a question....since you are a convert to Islam from Christianity, can you please tell me why Muslims always say pbuh after every mention of Jesus' name? (is it said after a verbal mention of just in writing?) And I notice the same even when prophets are mentioned generally. Is this a ritualistic thing? Is it just a way of demonstrating respect....or will something awful happen if you mention his name without that peace blessing?

It seems rather superstitious to me. And no other Abrahamic religion does this. Can you enlighten me?

Muslims are required to say "Peace be upon him" (pbuh) every time they mention the name of a prophet.

 

[Deeje]

Muslims are required to say "Peace be upon him" (pbuh) every time they mention the name of a prophet.

Required by whom...?