Jesus Camp

[Skwim]

is a documentary (once up for an Academy Award) available on Netfix disc or Instant Viewing that will either make you get down on your knees and thank the lord or make you cringe in disgust. Other than pointing out a few particulars, there's no commentary of any kind, leaving you free to make of it what you will.

I noted that the science book being used in the early part of the documentary, Exploring Creation with Physical Science, is a creationist text book. No surprise.

"Storyline

Jesus Camp follows several young children as they prepare to attend a summer camp where the kids will get their daily dose of evangelical Christianity. Becky Fischer works at the camp, which is named Kids on Fire. Through interviews with Fischer, the children, and others, Jesus Camp illustrates the unswerving belief of the faithful. A housewife and homeschooling mother tells her son that creationism has all the answers. Footage from inside the camp shows young children weeping and wailing as they promise to stop their sinning. Child after child is driven to tears. Juxtapose these scenes with clips from a more moderate Christian radio host (who is appalled by such tactics), and Jesus Camp seems to pose a clear question: are these children being brainwashed?"
source

.​

 

[Quintessence]

I did neither of those two things when I saw it years ago, so...

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

is a documentary (once up for an Academy Award) available on Netfix disc or Instant Viewing that will either make you get down on your knees and thank the lord or make you cringe in disgust. Other than pointing out a few particulars, there's no commentary of any kind, leaving you free to make of it what you will.

I noted that the science book being used in the early part of the documentary, Exploring Creation with Physical Science, is a creationist text book. No surprise.

"Storyline

Jesus Camp follows several young children as they prepare to attend a summer camp where the kids will get their daily dose of evangelical Christianity. Becky Fischer works at the camp, which is named Kids on Fire. Through interviews with Fischer, the children, and others, Jesus Camp illustrates the unswerving belief of the faithful. A housewife and homeschooling mother tells her son that creationism has all the answers. Footage from inside the camp shows young children weeping and wailing as they promise to stop their sinning. Child after child is driven to tears. Juxtapose these scenes with clips from a more moderate Christian radio host (who is appalled by such tactics), and Jesus Camp seems to pose a clear question: are these children being brainwashed?"
source

.​

I remember this documentary, these places are surprisingly common in my area of the U.S.

Would you like to see an atheist analysis of the documentary?

 

[Skwim]

I did neither of those two things when I saw it years ago, so...

Perhaps your batteries were dead.

 

[Skwim]

I remember this documentary, these places are surprisingly common in my area of the U.S.

Would you like to see an atheist analysis of the documentary?

Why not. What ya got?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Why not. What ya got?

 

[Quintessence]

Perhaps your batteries were dead.

I viewed it with an impartial mindset more analogous to that of a cultural anthropologist: I am an observer here of a foreign culture, and aim to understand it rather than get all judgmental about it. They have their way of life, other people have their ways of life. The end.

Been way too long since I saw it, though. I can't recall if it was an agenda-spin documentary. It probably was. And unfortunately I'm well aware that it is easy to spin things to paint them in a negative light when one composes a news article or documentary. The same things have been done to various Pagan religions, and it can be difficult to see past those distortions to be an impartial observer of a different culture.

 

[Skwim]

Thanks. Great review, and one for those who don't have access to the full documentary can watch to get a good idea of it all.

Been way too long since I saw it, though. I can't recall if it was an agenda-spin documentary. It probably was.

Actually, it wasn't, which is probably why it was so well received.

 

[Father Heathen]

I did neither of those two things when I saw it years ago, so...

So the indoctrination and exploitation of children doesn't disturb you in the slightest?

 

[Father Heathen]

I viewed it with an impartial mindset more analogous to that of a cultural anthropologist: I am an observer here of a foreign culture, and aim to understand it rather than get all judgmental about it. They have their way of life, other people have their ways of life. The end.

So once emotional abuse is acceptable once it becomes a part of someone's "way of life"?

 

[RedDragon94]

So the indoctrination and exploitation of children doesn't disturb you in the slightest?

I agree to some degree. I think children need to form some opinions before they get converted. I'm gonna start a thread on this topic.

 

[InChrist]

I find it very troubling, unbiblical, and feel bad for the kids and the impact such camps and erroneous teachings have on them.

"Several criticisms directed at Becky Fischer and her training programs are valid. First, as the Jesus Camp movie makes clear, she teaches erroneous Charismatic doctrine to children. Speaking in tongues, exorcising demons, and healing are overemphasized. Emotional, ecstatic experiences are valued to an unhealthy extent. Also, the Bible does not teach that the way to transform society is for Christians to seize control of secular political entities. Fischer’s most troubling message, however, is that children must “take back America for God” ...'

"Jesus Camp is an eye-opening film that documents the beliefs of a segment of Pentecostalism and how those beliefs impact society. If nothing else, the film underscores the dangers of Charismatic excess and the importance of sound biblical theology (2 Timothy 1:13)."

excerpts from: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Camp.html

 

[Quintessence]

So the indoctrination and exploitation of children doesn't disturb you in the slightest?

I was presented with a black-and-white dichotomy to choose from, and said my response was characterized by neither. I saw both beauty and ugliness, as I do with pretty much everything.

So once emotional abuse is acceptable once it becomes a part of someone's "way of life"?

I never said nor suggested any such thing. Frankly, the entire point of being an impartial observer is to avoid precisely this kind of moralizing and judging what is and isn't acceptable. One simply observes what is, without labeling it as abuse, as bad, or good, or whatever.

 

[Windwalker]

I couldn't bring myself to watch if for many years after it came out. I finally did recently feeling I had enough distance from the whole fundamentalist Christian thing to be less affected by it. I was in fact affected by it. My chest tightened despite my best efforts to be impartial about it. It was a certain PTSD response. I did manage to make my way through it without becoming angry, trying to see things from their point of view. But I recently came to the conclusion that fundamentalism isn't another form of religion, but a disease, a pathology, of otherwise valid forms of religion. And though I felt a degree of compassion for these people caught up in this world of unhealthy delusion, as all human succumb to sickness at one point or another, I consider it a cancerous form of religion that will not result in healthy minds and spiritual life.

 

[InChrist]

I couldn't bring myself to watch if for many years after it came out. I finally did recently feeling I had enough distance from the whole fundamentalist Christian thing to be less affected by it. I was in fact affected by it. My chest tightened despite my best efforts to be impartial about it. It was a certain PTSD response. I did manage to make my way through it without becoming angry, trying to see things from their point of view. But I recently came to the conclusion that fundamentalism isn't another form of religion, but a disease, a pathology, of otherwise valid forms of religion. And though I felt a degree of compassion for these people caught up in this world of unhealthy delusion, as all human succumb to sickness at one point or another, I consider it a cancerous form of religion that will not result in healthy minds and spiritual life.

It is a disease, a spiritual disease called heresy, but the film does not portray fundamental, biblical Christianity. You seem to have some confusion over this. Were you raised in this kind of Charismatic atmosphere?

 

[psychoslice]

Poor kids.

 

[Augustus]

Becky Fischer works at the camp, which is named Kids on Fire.

 

[Sunstone]

While what's being done to the kids in Jesus Camp is no where near as bad as female genital mutilation, I find it curious that many people discover themselves unable to make a moral judgement about either case. I admire Spinoza for his policy of detachment: "I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them." For it seems to me that the best way to understand something is to first suspend any moral judgement about it.

But I also recognize that our species is a social one and arguably has a moral obligation to oppose certain forms of behavior if and when those behaviors reduce the well being of ourselves or others. So for me, that is a second issue raised by Jesus Camp.

 

[Sunstone]

But I recently came to the conclusion that fundamentalism isn't another form of religion, but a disease, a pathology, of otherwise valid forms of religion. And though I felt a degree of compassion for these people caught up in this world of unhealthy delusion, as all human succumb to sickness at one point or another, I consider it a cancerous form of religion that will not result in healthy minds and spiritual life.

Interesting! We should talk about that because I have been arriving at the same conclusion over the past two to three years.

 

[Mindmaster]

I think when I watched this I was more saddened that these kids are taught how to pantomime a spiritual path rather than actually be on one. That's all that is really happening here anyway...