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Jesus and Sins

WalterTrull

Godfella
I’ve always had a problem with: “Jesus died for our sins.”

Phrased that way it could be a bit misleading.

I suppose the basic sin is believing that our father is in the earth rather than in heaven. All the other so-called ‘sins’ seem to stem from that one.

Proving our father is in heaven and not in the earth, Jesus went to the cross and was resurrected. Pretty painful but very greatly appreciated.

I suppose you could construe that as dying for our sins.

It looks like he gave us the bread of the true nature of the body and the wine of the kingdom to come to ease our fears.

That’s my take anyway.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I consider it differently. If a person believes, completely, that God sent Jesus, the only begotten son to die a horrible death for that person's sins. And they really comprehend that emotionally, it brings a person to repent so deeply and love God with such intensity that they change their personality. They become a new person who avoids sin fervently.

Accomplishing this isn't easy. People talk about being born again, but, I don't think they do it justice. And it's not a permanent get out of jail free card. The person could go astray and even become a more despicable person than they once were. And trying to repeat the same process of fervent repentence would be much harder the second time, much much harder the third time, etc.

Those are my thoughts on "he died for our sins".
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Sin come from the law. We would not have known that covert was a sin, unless the law said thou shall not covert. Before God told Adam and Eve, not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it was not a sin. But once the law was made, it became a sin. Before the prohibition, Adam and Eve could share everything in paradise, including the fruit of the tree of knowledge since it was sanctified by God to be in the garden. But once law appeared; thou shall not eat of that tree, original sin appeared.

Jesus understood that sin was not a tangible thing with a life of its own, but rather law defines sin and the humans of his day were making new laws to create manmade sin. There was an increasing blur between divine and manmade law; relative morality. For example, it was/is a sin for students not to use the correct pronouns in school; man playing god creating sin by decree. The Left with all its rules and regulation has amplified sin with rules and regulations; chaos in culture.

When Jesus died for sin, this was also symbolic of man killing god; atheism, and then playing god. The age of the gods was near the end; BC to AD. There was less clear distinction between Divine and manmade up sin, since divine sin was forgiven, while manmade sin got worse and worse.

A Christian who believes in forgiveness of sin, will not stop the man made woke police from enforcing its laws for sin even when dual standards will apply.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
I don’t think we’ll get there based on emotion. I don’t think we’ll get there based on laws. I think we’ll only get there based on reason. Reason tells me we are there but just don’t see it.
 

DNB

Christian
I’ve always had a problem with: “Jesus died for our sins.”

Phrased that way it could be a bit misleading.

I suppose the basic sin is believing that our father is in the earth rather than in heaven. All the other so-called ‘sins’ seem to stem from that one.

Proving our father is in heaven and not in the earth, Jesus went to the cross and was resurrected. Pretty painful but very greatly appreciated.

I suppose you could construe that as dying for our sins.

It looks like he gave us the bread of the true nature of the body and the wine of the kingdom to come to ease our fears.

That’s my take anyway.
As @dybmh implied, there are various atonement theories in regards towards the significance of the cross, and Christ's death.
The one that dybmh referred to is called Christus Victor. There is also Penal Substitution , among many more, that states that Christ, because he was God (blasphemy), actuality paid the price for all men's sins, collectively.
I found both theories, and all the others, to be either inaccurate, or just absurd.

My opinion is that Jesus' death was the final Yom Kippur - as the blood of bulls and goats were able to cleanse the sins of particular Israelites throughout the year (sin and trespass offerings), and the entire community on Yom Kippur, how much more the perfect human who loved God with all his heart, mind and soul?

Jesus abrogated the Law which held all men in bondage - as you said, where there is no law, there is no sin.
Jesus fulfillment of the Levitical Law in its entirety, satisfied God to end it, and apply His mercy, which is now the Law of faith.
Thus, Jesus died to end the Law, due to the fact that were were sinners - he died for our sins.
 
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I’ve always had a problem with: “Jesus died for our sins.”

Phrased that way it could be a bit misleading.

I suppose the basic sin is believing that our father is in the earth rather than in heaven. All the other so-called ‘sins’ seem to stem from that one.

Proving our father is in heaven and not in the earth, Jesus went to the cross and was resurrected. Pretty painful but very greatly appreciated.

I suppose you could construe that as dying for our sins.

It looks like he gave us the bread of the true nature of the body and the wine of the kingdom to come to ease our fears.

That’s my take anyway.
Hello Walter, You are correct some people will not accept what is right for them.

Love, Walter
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I’ve always had a problem with: “Jesus died for our sins.”
I think it was likely an invention of Paul's whereas he used this as a way to teach that grain & animal sacrifices and the complete following of the letter of Jewish Law were no longer necessary for Gentiles or Jewish converts.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Jesus being both human and divine is relevant here. Applying the idea of sin to any other creature in this world besides humans with souls would feel strange, rightly so. That’s because sin is associated with the divine. Only a divine being needs redemption for their sin.

When Jesus lays down his life for the redemption of sin, it isn’t the divine part of him sacrificing itself for humanity. Rather, it’s a man willingly stepping into the divine story — with its impossibly demanding requirements of justice — on behalf of the divine.

When someone says that Jesus died for their sin, it’s not a human individual paying homage to a divine being. It’s a divine soul honoring the sacrifice of a man. When the divine soul worships and follows this man, then that soul becomes the Son of Man and worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You're not familiar with the Hebrew Bible, or do you mean that how can the death of an unrelated creature purge the sins of an entirely different species?
Host of questions here. What was the sin? Who did sin? Who was the judge? How does the sin passes from one generation to another eternally? And, of course, how does the death of an unrelated creature purge the sins of an entirely different species? BTW, was not Jesus a human? One can't be a monkey as well as human.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You're not familiar with the Hebrew Bible, or do you mean that how can the death of an unrelated creature purge the sins of an entirely different species?
Even when it's mentioned in Torah through several Commandments? Does Torah reflect YHWH's Commandments or not, iyo?
 

DNB

Christian
Host of questions here. What was the sin? Who did sin? Who was the judge? How does the sin passes from one generation to another eternally? And, of course, how does the death of an unrelated creature purge the sins of an entirely different species? BTW, was not Jesus a human? One can't be a monkey as well as human.
The original sin was disobedience to God - the Creator of all mankind and the universe. Therefore, inexcusably egregious.
God was the judge.
Adam and Eve sinned in the beginning, all men have sinned, unequivocally, since then.
The sin did not pass in a logistical manner, from one generation to the next. But, rather, God deemed all men guilty due to the transgression of our initial ancestors.
Blood sacrifice is symbolic of death, and, consequently, the annulment of a contractual agreement. We are looking to be new creatures - those who have been defiled by sin are created anew. The oblations of the Old Testament simply signify this principle - when the wages of sin is death, blood must be shed. But, God has allowed redemption through a change of heart, characterized by one's willingness to offer a sacrifice on their behalf. Similar to how baptism merely signifies a cleansing. Thus, whether it be bulls or goats, man is showing contrition and reverence for God when he accepts the requirement to offer sacrifice. Christ was the final sacrifice that allowed God to abrogate the Law.

Jesus was a human, and nothing more. Despite the fact that mainstream Christianity claims that Jesus was God, he was not, and never was , and never will be. Only the Father is God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
1. The original sin was disobedience to God - the Creator of all mankind and the universe. Therefore, inexcusably egregious.
God was the judge.
2. Adam and Eve sinned in the beginning, all men have sinned, unequivocally, since then.
3. The sin did not pass in a logistical manner, from one generation to the next. But, rather, God deemed all men guilty due to the transgression of our initial ancestors.
4. Blood sacrifice is symbolic of death, and, consequently, the annulment of a contractual agreement. We are looking to be new creatures - those who have been defiled by sin are created anew. The oblations of the Old Testament simply signify this principle - when the wages of sin is death, blood must be shed. But, God has allowed redemption through a change of heart, characterized by one's willingness to offer a sacrifice on their behalf. Similar to how baptism merely signifies a cleansing. Thus, whether it be bulls or goats, man is showing contrition and reverence for God when he accepts the requirement to offer sacrifice. Christ was the final sacrifice that allowed God to abrogate the Law.
5. Jesus was a human, and nothing more. Despite the fact that mainstream Christianity claims that Jesus was God, he was not, and never was , and never will be. 6. 6. Only the Father is God.
1. I am an atheist, so no God for me.
2. How come 'the sin' passes down the generations? Son of a thief - automatically a thief?
3. What YHWH said was 'even third or fourth generation'. So, that was not true. The sin continued eternally. Why is God so vindictive?
4. If Jesus' sacrifice was the final and God abrogated his curse, then the generations after Jesus should automatically be without sin.
5. Who, in your knowledgeable view, started this 'immaculate conception', 'anointed son of God' and 'resurrection' falsehood if Jesus was human and nothing more.
6. If God has no son, why should he be termed as father?
 
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wellwisher

Well-Known Member
1. I am an atheist, so no God for me.
2. How come 'the sin' passes down the generations? Son of a thief - automatically a thief?
3. What YHWH said was 'even third or fourth generation'. So, that was not true. The sin continued eternally. Why is God so vindictive?
4. If Jesus' sacrifice was the final and God abrogated his curse, then the generations after Jesus should automatically be without sin.
5. Who, in your knowledgeable view, started this 'immaculate conception', 'anointed son of God' and 'resurrection' falsehood if Jesus was human and nothing more.
6. If God has no son, why should he be termed as father?
The modern Democrat party uses a knock off of the concept of original sin, to blame all white people for the slavery of blacks, even if you or your ancestors never did anything of the sort; one size fits all. I hope you can see the parallel and the plagiarism. Using a religious concept allows Atheist Democrats to practice religion without it being called religion; lawyer angle to deflect the irrational and unscientific hypocrisy.

In terms of law, law creates and defines sin. If there is no law there is no sin. Once you make a law, any law, and define the associated sin; do not do, sin appears. For example, alcohol is common to most cultures. It is only sin where it is a taboo due to local or regional law. Original sin is when law began; first laws. Animals do not make laws, so they are sinless, even if they do very things that the law of man says would be a sin for humans; Lions kill and hyena steal but they are sinless.

Science can show that the invention of written language appeared about 6000 years ago. This invention was key to civilization in terms of record keeping for commerce and invention. Original sin appeared due to the tree of knowledge of good and evi, which is symbolic of law. This story talks about using the new invention of written language; dust of the earth, to carve law into stone and therefore define sin, forever.

Written language allowed humans to write down law, thereby perpetuating behavior that would lead to social and individual repression. If there had been no written language, but only spoken laws, it would change with each generation and the past would be forgotten and evolve. But once written, by the new invention of written language, law would outlive its natural life expectancy and cause longer term social repression for many generations. The ten commandments were written into law thousands of years ago; stopped in time.

When Jesus preaches forgiveness of sin and he dies for sin, he essentially saying to go back to an earlier time in civilization, before written law, when each generation makes laws, but these are more fluid and can change with the next generation. Law was not designed to become carved into stone, and live on way beyond the natural time scale for the human brain. Instead they should come and go and be forgotten, so natural instinct can be restored. Law needed to change with the needs of the times. Jesus does say that there are divine laws that are timeless; object laws, but he also saw all the manmade law; subjective, that was used to manipulate via repression, growing exponentially; food taboos.

Today, there are more laws than ever, due to governments and regulatory agencies. They define all types of sins, such as CO2 is evil. Now even breathing is a sin by extrapolation; we exhale CO2 and plant use CO2. As it is written so it shall be. These irrational laws come mostly from the godless playing god. This makes people unnatural; bizarre behavior.

Even farming which grows food, but makes CO2 is now seen as evil; sin, by the Left. Farming feed people, but is a sin due to the CO2 laws. This sin is insane. It is this type of extrapolation, that forgiveness of sin, was designed to overcome. These are not sins. However, since we all agree to obey written law to live in cultures, we all still practice sone form of the original sin; written law repression. Jesus was very advance even for modern times.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The modern .. for modern times.
Ah Wellwisher, why can't you write shorter posts? I will try to read what you have posted here.
However, please note, animals do have their laws and the society or the leader punishes one who breaks the law.
Language is older than humans (i.e., +200,000 years). Even our non-human ancestors were using language, of whatever kind.
Laws have changed all the time. Laws are formulated according to the necessity of the society. Divine laws will affect divorce, abortion and LGBTQ,
Which and where, law makes breathing unlawful? If an activity pollutes the environment, then it is better to take care of it.
 
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