Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

[Brian2]

That is your belief..
My studies show me otherwise. The earliest "church" were the disciples and the one that originated in Jerusalem before they were expelled along with other Jews.

..in any case, I know you won't listen to anybody else .. you want to stick with Roman tradition.

Many disciples of Jesus were persecuted by the Jews and left Jerusalem before 70AD, when the Romans expelled the Jews.
I stick with what Bible tells me, not Roman tradition.

 

[Brian2]

I wish every Protestant was like you. You are somewhat against the Church like me, but strike me as some one who would still defend the Church when she is wrongfully under attack, something I will do.

Yes there are others who are more firmly against the Catholic Church.

 

[Brian2]

According to Catholic doctrine, the church is built on the rock of Peter, whose supposed heir is the pope. If the pope doesn't know what he is taking about, then that reflects on the church. Per Isaiah 22:25, the heir of the Peter, the pope, who supposedly holds the keys of the house of David (Isaiah 22:22), will "fall" "in that day", which is the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), and those holding onto him, will be "cut off".

I have not heard of Isa 22:22,25 being interpreted that way.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't see that thinking the truth is important can be called moral high ground...

Nevermind..
There are different levels of spiritual awareness. We are not all equal.
'Heaven' is not a communist state.

I encourage people to go to the "church" that they belong to.
Belief in G-d, as in the Bible, is the main thing.

It is G-d who accepts or rejects our faith. He knows what we are all about.

 

[Spiderman]

Nevermind..
There are different levels of spiritual awareness. We are not all equal.
'Heaven' is not a communist state.

I encourage people to go to the "church" that they belong to.
Belief in G-d, as in the Bible, is the main thing.

It is G-d who accepts or rejects our faith. He knows what we are all about.

When you said "Heaven is not a Communist state," were you inspired by something I said recently?

On March 12, I started this thread:
The Prodigal Communist!

Comparing the Kingdom of heaven to a Communist Community, and I am the only person I have seen say something a long those lines, so I have suspicion maybe that is where you got it from, otherwise, congratulations, great minds think a like (only in this case you are using the same comparison to state the opposite thing )

 

[muhammad_isa]

..congratulations, great minds think a like (only in this case you are using the same comparison to state the opposite thing )

There is a difference between equal rights and oppression due to ideology.
We are all different and have different strengths and weaknesses.
A true state of 'heaven' is one in which we all complement each other .. not one of envy and oppression.

 

[2ndpillar]

I have not heard of Isa 22:22,25 being interpreted that way.

Even Catholics quote Isaiah 22:22-25 incorrectly as being with respect to Peter, instead of the heir of Peter, the pope, as it reads he will have the keys of the house of David, and what he binds in heaven will be bound on earth, but the part they miss, is it reads "in that day", which means the "day of the LORD", he shall "fall" and all hanging on to him, will be "cut off". Peter comes earlier in the chapter at Isaiah 22:15. Peter was chosen apparently because of his over inflated ego to fulfill his role, just as Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:12-13), was apparently chosen because of his love of money. Paul, chosen per Zechariah 11:10, was chosen apparently because of his Napoleon complex. I have no doubt that you have not heard of a lot of things. Why is that?

 

[2ndpillar]

When you said "Heaven is not a Communist state," were you inspired by something I said recently?

On March 12, I started this thread:
The Prodigal Communist!

Comparing the Kingdom of heaven to a Communist Community, and I am the only person I have seen say something a long those lines, so I have suspicion maybe that is where you got it from, otherwise, congratulations, great minds think a like (only in this case you are using the same comparison to state the opposite thing )

The "kingdom of God"(Ezekiel 37: 22-28) is when everyone will have their own land and their own vine to sit under (Micah 4:4), which is the opposite of the "great reset" whereas you will own nothing and be happy about it. The "great reset" is a progression of Communism, which is a progression of socialism, and they all lead to hell, the pit, Sheol, or whatever you call death. The overall apparent depiction of Progressivism, would be a walking death, filled with the self righteous woke, who apparently wind up eating each other.

Micah 4:4 Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid, for the LORD Almighty has spoken.

 

[Brian2]

Even Catholics quote Isaiah 22:22-25 incorrectly as being with respect to Peter, instead of the heir of Peter, the pope, as it reads he will have the keys of the house of David, and what he binds in heaven will be bound on earth, but the part they miss, is it reads "in that day", which means the "day of the LORD", he shall "fall" and all hanging on to him, will be "cut off". Peter comes earlier in the chapter at Isaiah 22:15. Peter was chosen apparently because of his over inflated ego to fulfill his role, just as Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:12-13), was apparently chosen because of his love of money. Paul, chosen per Zechariah 11:10, was chosen apparently because of his Napoleon complex. I have no doubt that you have not heard of a lot of things. Why is that?

My wife knows everything and only tells me what I need to know, which it seems is not much.

 

[YoursTrue]

Those who say there is no trinity are making a big deal out of what was decided 2000 years ago. The Church cannot change the truth because people make a big deal about it being untrue. It is what the earliest Church taught about Jesus and what was written in the New Testament for the Church to believe.
That is usually not the only thing that most deniers have problems with. Changing one truth means that something else does not make sense and it has a domino effect on theology.
Popes are fallible as far as I am concerned, even when they speak "ex cathedra" (meaning in an infallible sense about the doctrines of the Church). The rule about the Pope being infallible was made up recently (1870) and Protestants, like myself, do not necessarily go by what the Pope says unless it conforms with what the Bible says. The Trinity does conform with the Bible.

Here's what I am learning about what you call the Church. By the way, the trinity does not conform with the scriptures. One can always grab a statement or two and say See? That means that God is triune. (No, it doesn't but some will say that.)
What I see is that the "Church" has little authority over its own adherents, or depending what church is being discussed, there's a gap somehow -- almost like the theory of evolution.

 

[YoursTrue]

My wife knows everything and only tells me what I need to know, which it seems is not much.

Or maybe she realizes there's little that she cares to say?

 

[YoursTrue]

It sounds like you are saying Adam was good before he turned bad but Jesus was good all the time.
Or are you saying that Adam was bad from the start just like Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God because He was bad.
Of course when you say you need help from God to understand the scriptures you really mean "help from the Governing Body of JWs". God and the Governing Body are not equivalent.
I know the JW way to describe the atonement and saying that it atoned from one man's sins only, Adam's, and it does not make sense when compared to what the Bible tells us about it.

So you got part of that right I think. I'm saying that God created Adam. And Eve. Let's start there because a lot of people say they "believe in God," but don't really believe God created Adam. And Eve. Do you believe that?

 

[2ndpillar]

My wife knows everything and only tells me what I need to know, which it seems is not much.

What can I say? Her prophet Paul, the foundation stone of her church, tells women to be quiet, yet women are at the forefront of pushing Paul's doctrine of the devil made me do it (Romans 7). You can pull the Greek women strategy, and withhold sex if she doesn't follow Paul's important doctrine, or you can move into the attic.

Proverbs 21:9 It is better to live in a corner of the housetop
than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.

 

[2ndpillar]

Here's what I am learning about what you call the Church. By the way, the trinity does not conform with the scriptures. One can always grab a statement or two and say See? That means that God is triune. (No, it doesn't but some will say that.)
What I see is that the "Church" has little authority over its own adherents, or depending what church is being discussed, there's a gap somehow -- almost like the theory of evolution.

You overlook the Catch 22. If the adherents to the church say they believe, well, bingo, they are saved. If they do not do what the church says, bingo, they are saved, because it is the "evil with them" that if rebelling, and they are still saved (Romans 7:17). The problem is that the Roman Catholic church was based on the Nicene Trinity church foundation, per the Roman emperor Theodosius in 380 A.D. Therefore, your typical JW is considered a non "Christian", by traditional Roman based "Christians", because they do not accept the Trinitarian view. The JWs have their own set of problems apart from the Trinity split.

 

[Brian2]

So you got part of that right I think. I'm saying that God created Adam. And Eve. Let's start there because a lot of people say they "believe in God," but don't really believe God created Adam. And Eve. Do you believe that?

Yes God created Adam and Eve and that was through Jesus. I guess it was Jesus who formed Adam from the ground and formed Eve and breathed life into Adam.

 

[YoursTrue]

You overlook the Catch 22. If the adherents to the church say they believe, well, bingo, they are saved. If they do not do what the church says, bingo, they are saved, because it is the "evil with them" that if rebelling, and they are still saved (Romans 7:17). The problem is that the Roman Catholic church was based on the Nicene Trinity church foundation, per the Roman emperor Theodosius in 380 A.D. Therefore, your typical JW is considered a non "Christian", by traditional Roman based "Christians", because they do not accept the Trinitarian view. The JWs have their own set of problems apart from the Trinity split.

So now -- I'm not even sure this present pope believes in the eternal torture literal concept of damnation. Anything goes -- I would think a person has to agree with a religion's teachings to stay with it. Either Revelation 21:1-5 will come true or it won't, in its complete fulfillment.

 

[2ndpillar]

So now -- I'm not even sure this present pope believes in the eternal torture literal concept of damnation. Anything goes -- I would think a person has to agree with a religion's teachings to stay with it. Either Revelation 21:1-5 will come true or it won't, in its complete fulfillment.

Revelation 21:1-5 refers to the period called the millennium. The millennium is only 1000 years, not "eternal torture" which per Revelation 20:10, only refers to the false prophet, the beast and the devil at the completion of the millennium, at which time, the false prophet, and the beast were already in the "lake of fire", for they were already dead, except in the form of their "demon spirits" (Revelation 16:13), at the beginning of the millennium. The state of being for the "murders, etc.", will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" outside the gates of "Jerusalem". (Mt 13:42). For Revelation 21:8, the "murderers" will be thrown into the lake of fire, at the end of the millennium, at which time they will be burned up, and not suffering eternal pain, for they do not have "eternal life". During the "millennium", the "murderers" will find themselves locked outside of the gates (Revelation 22:14-15). I was raised in a Catholic family, and they are pretty much all Catholics, but I can't think of one that agrees with the pope, although my sister, the nun, doesn't tell me what she thinks. She leaves the sleeping dog sleep. I do have another sister who thinks going to church is a good thing, despite what ever I should say, but I doubt if she agrees with the pope on much. But, she went to school in a nunnery, and probably thinks the church can "save" her, if she takes communion. What can I say? You can't have "eternal" damnation, if you don't have eternal life. Apparently the beast, and the false prophet ate from the tree of life, and that won't apparently turn out well for them.

 

[Brian2]

Revelation 21:1-5 refers to the period called the millennium. The millennium is only 1000 years, not "eternal torture" which per Revelation 20:10, only refers to the false prophet, the beast and the devil at the completion of the millennium, at which time, the false prophet, and the beast were already in the "lake of fire", for they were already dead, except in the form of their "demon spirits" (Revelation 16:13), at the beginning of the millennium. The state of being for the "murders, etc.", will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" outside the gates of "Jerusalem". (Mt 13:42). For Revelation 21:8, the "murderers" will be thrown into the lake of fire, at the end of the millennium, at which time they will be burned up, and not suffering eternal pain, for they do not have "eternal life". During the "millennium", the "murderers" will find themselves locked outside of the gates (Revelation 22:14-15). I was raised in a Catholic family, and they are pretty much all Catholics, but I can't think of one that agrees with the pope, although my sister, the nun, doesn't tell me what she thinks. She leaves the sleeping dog sleep. I do have another sister who thinks going to church is a good thing, despite what ever I should say, but I doubt if she agrees with the pope on much. But, she went to school in a nunnery, and probably thinks the church can "save" her, if she takes communion. What can I say? You can't have "eternal" damnation, if you don't have eternal life. Apparently the beast, and the false prophet ate from the tree of life, and that won't apparently turn out well for them.

I would think that eternal damnation could be eternity without life.

 

[YoursTrue]

Revelation 21:1-5 refers to the period called the millennium. The millennium is only 1000 years, not "eternal torture" which per Revelation 20:10, only refers to the false prophet, the beast and the devil at the completion of the millennium, at which time, the false prophet, and the beast were already in the "lake of fire", for they were already dead, except in the form of their "demon spirits" (Revelation 16:13), at the beginning of the millennium. The state of being for the "murders, etc.", will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" outside the gates of "Jerusalem". (Mt 13:42). For Revelation 21:8, the "murderers" will be thrown into the lake of fire, at the end of the millennium, at which time they will be burned up, and not suffering eternal pain, for they do not have "eternal life". During the "millennium", the "murderers" will find themselves locked outside of the gates (Revelation 22:14-15). I was raised in a Catholic family, and they are pretty much all Catholics, but I can't think of one that agrees with the pope, although my sister, the nun, doesn't tell me what she thinks. She leaves the sleeping dog sleep. I do have another sister who thinks going to church is a good thing, despite what ever I should say, but I doubt if she agrees with the pope on much. But, she went to school in a nunnery, and probably thinks the church can "save" her, if she takes communion. What can I say? You can't have "eternal" damnation, if you don't have eternal life. Apparently the beast, and the false prophet ate from the tree of life, and that won't apparently turn out well for them.

I find it interesting that the Pope in his recent comments is reported to have spoken of the possibility of nuclear war and mankind having to "start over" again. Nothing said about what the Bible says regarding war and peace and God's intervention. Revelation 21:1-5 - new heavens and new earth where RIGHTEOUSNESS is to be. Death will be no more. Nothing about what Jesus told his disciples to pray for -- God's kingdom. "Let your kingdom come..."

 

[YoursTrue]

I would think that eternal damnation could be eternity without life.

The lake is symbolic of eternal destruction, as you said, death without feeling, knowledge, happiness -- no resurrection.