Jannah vs Heaven for Slaughter

[Tumah]

So I've been reading some history lately. Holding at the Crusades. I was wondering:

What's the difference between conferring the shahid status on someone who dies in warfare vs. conferring indulgences for someone who goes to war?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

So I've been reading some history lately. Holding at the Crusades. I was wondering:

What's the difference between conferring the shahid status on someone who dies in warfare vs. conferring indulgences for someone who goes to war?

Point taken , however people of all nationality flock to christian world in 2016 ,some even risk death , moreso in times of crisis is a safe haven so even after the slaughter of centuries millennia ago some good did come of it , in bigger picture . Today world is not so bad regarding war , stakes gone much higher now .

 

[Tumah]

Point taken , however people of all nationality flock to christian world in 2016 ,some even risk death , moreso in times of crisis is a safe haven so even after the slaughter of centuries millennia ago some good did come of it , in bigger picture . Today world is not so bad regarding war , stakes gone much higher now .

Today is a moment. History is thousands of years.
Why is today the big picture?

 

[Nietzsche]

There isn't. Though this is the problem with Christianity and Islam, honestly. They preach anti-violence, they preach peace. Then when they need to kill someone, it's all "God will forgive you because I say so".

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Today is a moment. History is thousands of years.
Why is today the big picture?

Today nearly over tomorrow now the bigger picture .

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

There isn't. Though this is the problem with Christianity and Islam, honestly. They preach anti-violence, they preach peace. Then when they need to kill someone, it's all "God will forgive you because I say so".

"Atheism, true 'existential' atheism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God.… Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved thereby his intense hunger for Christ.”

 

[Nietzsche]

"Atheism, true 'existential' atheism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God.… Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved thereby his intense hunger for Christ.”

Exactly what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[Tumah]

"Atheism, true 'existential' atheism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God.… Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved thereby his intense hunger for Christ.”

Anti-Nazism, true 'existential' anti-nazism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful nazi, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true nazi.… Jews, in calling themselves anti-Nazism, prove thereby their intense hunger for nazis.

It kind of doesn't make sense when you try to apply that logic on anything else.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Anti-Nazism, true 'existential' anti-nazism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful nazi, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true nazi.… Jews, in calling themselves anti-Nazism, prove thereby their intense hunger for nazis.

It kind of doesn't make sense when you try to apply that logic on anything else.

Seraphim Rose

 

[Tumah]

Seraphim Rose

Samuel Clemens.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Samuel Clemens.

Abraham Gancwajch

 

[Tumah]

Abraham Gancwajch

Sorry, I don't know enough authors to keep this game going.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Sorry, I don't know enough authors to keep this game going.

When in Rome do as the romans do ?
Crusades should not have happened , Babylon should not of been raized , and this why I look to tomorrow , yesterday is to ugly

 

[MARCELLO]

Sorry, I don't know enough authors to keep this game going.

So,you should not have got involved in this game,but you had.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

There isn't. Though this is the problem with Christianity and Islam, honestly. They preach anti-violence, they preach peace. Then when they need to kill someone, it's all "God will forgive you because I say so".

No Islamic teaching condones killing on simply "the need to kill someone". Islam is very strict about warfare, it is only permitted withing very, very small confines of self defense, invasion and tyranny. There is no joy in it, it is not cold blooded and all hostilities are to be ceased if the enemy surrenders or asks for negotiations.

Even in the act of war itself, the cutting of trees and burning of grass/farm land is prohibited, except for in a few extenuating circumstances.

If Muslims are to fight a war (as a last resort) even that is done with honour.

This idea that preaching peace means complete non-violence is not only simple but impractical. Violence is required sometimes but never is it to be exploited.

 

[Nietzsche]

No Islamic teaching condones killing on simply "the need to kill someone". Islam is very strict about warfare, it is only permitted withing very, very small confines of self defense, invasion and tyranny. There is no joy in it, it is not cold blooded and all hostilities are to be ceased if the enemy surrenders or asks for negotiations.

Even in the act of war itself, the cutting of trees and burning of grass/farm land is prohibited, except for in a few extenuating circumstances.

If Muslims are to fight a war (as a last resort) even that is done with honour.

This idea that preaching peace means complete non-violence is not only simple but impractical. Violence is required sometimes but never is it to be exploited.

I am 110% certain that you genuinely believe this. I am equally certain that if you change some of the proper nouns, that Christians also feel the exact same way. But this manner of rationalization falls short because of course a religious leader(or individual) will see the violence they commit as being well within that "very, very small confine". If you didn't believe(or were able to convince yourself) it was the only way forward, you wouldn't do it.

And that's the problem. It's child's play to be able to argue that in this set of circumstances, violence is acceptable. If it weren't so easy, religious terrorism simply wouldn't exist. Everyone is the hero of their own story, after all. But just thinking that doesn't make it so.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

I am 110% certain that you genuinely believe this. I am equally certain that if you change some of the proper nouns, that Christians also feel the exact same way. But this manner of rationalization falls short because of course a religious leader(or individual) will see the violence they commit as being well within that "very, very small confine". If you didn't believe(or were able to convince yourself) it was the only way forward, you wouldn't do it.

And that's the problem. It's child's play to be able to argue that in this set of circumstances, violence is acceptable. If it weren't so easy, religious terrorism simply wouldn't exist. Everyone is the hero of their own story, after all. But just thinking that doesn't make it so.

Nope. You are wrong.

There is no room for "interpretation", which you are alluding to. Islam explicitly forbids the killing of innocent people and defines that, both in peace time and war time. For example, Islam forbids the killing of religious leaders within communities during a war/battle, unless that person takes up arms against you and refuses to surrender. That's pretty straightforward. There is no room for interpretation in this.

And as I always do, let me quote the MI5, who have explicitly stated that this so called "Islamic extremists" are actually "Islamic novices" and that conservative/practicing muslims, i.e. Muslims who understand the faith, are the least likely to be radicalised.

I'm not going to speak about other religions but when it comes to Islam and the discussion of law, warfare etc, everything has been defined and explained for us.

These people who supposedly misinterpret verses from the Quran of actions from the life time of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, are liars and hired by various organisations to mislead people, especially those with no Islamic knowledge.

 

[Ingledsva]

Point taken , however people of all nationality flock to christian world in 2016 ,some even risk death , moreso in times of crisis is a safe haven so even after the slaughter of centuries millennia ago some good did come of it , in bigger picture . Today world is not so bad regarding war , stakes gone much higher now .

Actually they flock to countries with laws basically allowing them to worship, or NOT, as they see fit. They are not flocking to a "Christian" world.

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[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Actually they flock to countries with laws basically allowing them to worship, or NOT, as they see fit. They are not flocking to a "Christian" world.

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UN resolutions
10. Emphasizes that respect of religions and their protection from contempt is an essential element conducive for the exercise by all of the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;

11. Urges all States to ensure that all public officials, including members of law enforcement bodies, the military, civil servants and educators, in the course of their official duties, respect all religions and beliefs and do not discriminate against persons on the grounds of their religion or belief, and that all necessary and appropriate education or training is provided;

12. Emphasizes that, as stipulated in international human rights law, everyone has the right to freedom of expression, and that the exercise of this right carries with it special duties and responsibilities, and may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but only those provided by law and necessary for the respect of the rights or reputations of others, or for the protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals;

(a) The need to provide equal treatment to the combat of all forms of defamation of religions, thus avoiding hierarchization of forms of discrimination, even though their intensity may vary according to history, geography and culture;

(b) The historical and cultural depth of all forms of defamation of religions, and therefore the need to complement legal strategies with an intellectual and ethical strategy relating to the processes, mechanisms and representations which constitute those manifestations over time;

...

(e) The need to pay particular attention and vigilance to maintain a careful balance between secularism and the respect of freedom of religion. A growing anti-religious culture and rhetoric is a central source of defamation of all religions and discrimination against their believers and practitioners. In this context governments should pay a particular attention to guaranteeing and protecting the places of worship and culture of all religous solutions

 

[Ingledsva]

Point taken , however people of all nationality flock to christian world in 2016 ,some even risk death , moreso in times of crisis is a safe haven so even after the slaughter of centuries millennia ago some good did come of it , in bigger picture . Today world is not so bad regarding war , stakes gone much higher now.

Actually they flock to countries with laws basically allowing them to worship, or NOT, as they see fit. They are not flocking to a "Christian" world.

UN resolutions
10. Emphasizes that respect of religions and their protection from contempt is an essential element conducive for the exercise by all of the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;

11. Urges all States to ensure that all public officials, including members of law enforcement bodies, the military, civil servants and educators, in the course of their official duties, respect all religions and beliefs and do not discriminate against persons on the grounds of their religion or belief, and that all necessary and appropriate education or training is provided;

12. Emphasizes that, as stipulated in international human rights law, everyone has the right to freedom of expression, and that the exercise of this right carries with it special duties and responsibilities, and may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but only those provided by law and necessary for the respect of the rights or reputations of others, or for the protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals;

(a) The need to provide equal treatment to the combat of all forms of defamation of religions, thus avoiding hierarchization of forms of discrimination, even though their intensity may vary according to history, geography and culture;

(b) The historical and cultural depth of all forms of defamation of religions, and therefore the need to complement legal strategies with an intellectual and ethical strategy relating to the processes, mechanisms and representations which constitute those manifestations over time;
...
(e) The need to pay particular attention and vigilance to maintain a careful balance between secularism and the respect of freedom of religion. A growing anti-religious culture and rhetoric is a central source of defamation of all religions and discrimination against their believers and practitioners. In this context governments should pay a particular attention to guaranteeing and protecting the places of worship and culture of all religous solutions

What does that have to do with your post, - and my reply?

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