Its going to be a rough ride

[pearl]

You can't really just 'refuse to listen' to your opponent if you're looking for a fair debate.

In normal times I would agree. But that's exactly what happened during Obama's term, the nominee was refused a hearing, the reason being to wait until after the election.

 

[rstrats]

Vancouversailor,
re: "...Trump is a moron..."

How do you define "moron" as you are using it in your assertion?

 

[pearl]

Dick Cheney did before Obama or the Clintons.

Would he have done so if his daughter was not gay? I think it is in knowing his daughter that fostered an understanding homosexuality.

 

[PureX]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but it is interesting how we complain about the very people we vote into power.

Well, the system has been rigged, and the voters have been hoodwinked, and the media has been effectively bought off so that they never really get candidates that would represent them as they should be represented. They end up voting for what they think is the 'least worst', which is still bad. And we all know it, but don't know what to do about it.

Had we paid more attention when the system was being rigged, and the media was being bought off, and made or outrage known, then, we probably could have stopped it. Now, we have pretty much no influence at all. Which is why these politicians have become so emboldened to do whatever they please. And why they can get away with deliberately destroying our whole system of balanced government, to get what they want, and what their paying patrons want.

I look at the government as an umpire or referee. A baseball game would be complete chaos if there weren't umps making decisions and making players abide by the rules. We also think it is immoral if an umpire is corrupt and takes money to call a game a certain way. Same applies to politicians and public servants.

They don't care what we think. And they don't care what we do, if they know we can do nothing to stop them. In the end, it comes down to force. And for the people to enforce their will, they have to unite. So long as the dictators can keep us divided against each other, they can continue to do what they please.

 

[Revoltingest]

Would he have done so if his daughter was not gay? I think it is in knowing his daughter that fostered an understanding homosexuality.

We all are who we are as a result of our experiences.
And if this results in one person being more tolerant
& inclusive than others, then good for them.
This should not be dismissed, nor should intolerance
& oppression be excused in ostensible liberals.

 

[pearl]

How people want to be governed is determined by the people who are living, not those who have died before them. The moment we try to treat laws as unchangeable edicts is the moment that we ignore what it is to be human.

And that's why we have the Amendments. Human rights evolve within time and culture. To protect individual rights the Constitution protects the minority, even of one, from the tyranny of the majority.

 

[pearl]

It doesn't matter whether Dems wants to hear the nominees or not, Dems are out numbered by Republicans.

The reason for waiting until after the elections. There will be one more dem senator, already elected, seated in Jan.

 

[pearl]

That aside, everyone in the world except the 51 percent of Americans who elected him knows that Trump is a moron and the current situation in the US is not likely sustainable.

There's the problem. The Court, stacked with his Justices, and a religious agenda will be there for the next forty years.

 

[pearl]

Pffft. Your laundry list of boogeymen is laughable.

Take a breath, “Cassandra”.

In this case the future is easily prophesied by history.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But it's OK for modern liberals to inflict their beliefs upon others?
I don't like curbing civil liberties (the ones they dislike), high taxes,
massive bureaucracy, & talk of requiring service (military or social)
rankle me.
Every side always thinks it has The Truth, & that their agenda is
righteous, unlike the evil other side. Evil is as evil does, & it lurks
on both sides of the aisle.

Not that you're arguing this, but your point doesn't mean we should therefore treat all arguments as equal. Better we judge them on merit, and stop defending 'our side'.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not that you're arguing this, but your point doesn't mean we should therefore treat all arguments as equal. Better we judge them on merit, and stop defending 'our side'.

Good....the false false equivalency fallacy is one to avoid.
(Word has it that a rabid dingo invented that one.)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Given that this is an international forum with members from all over the world, you are addressing an audience that only to a small degree will be affected by your Supreme Court or legislative bodies. In fact, thanks to your current President who's driving ever broader wedges between the US and the world at large, the US will soon lose its position as the dominant world power. That aside, everyone in the world except the 51 percent of Americans who elected him knows that Trump is a moron and the current situation in the US is not likely sustainable.

Not 51%...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Good....the false false equivalency fallacy is one to avoid.
(Word has it that a rabid dingo invented that one.)

Lol...good enough. Wasn't making any judgements about your post, but...(that horrible word)...I think some can use an argument of both sides being equally bad on general terms to avoid taking a stand on specific issues.

For example, regardless of history or party position, I agree with marriage equality. If Dems support it then I support them. If Republicans support it, then I support them. If neither support it, then I'll not support either.

But what I won't do is watch my favourite party take a position and then follow suit.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Well, the system has been rigged, and the voters have been hoodwinked, and the media has been effectively bought off so that they never really get candidates that would represent them as they should be represented. They end up voting for what they think is the 'least worst', which is still bad. And we all know it, but don't know what to do about it.

The obvious solution is to run for office or become a journalist if you think it can be done better.

Also, in what way do you think the media has been bought off? I think the larger problem is that the media depends on advertisements for income which leads to sensationalism, but I don't see most journalists writing flattering stories in exchange for cash from the person they are writing about.

Had we paid more attention when the system was being rigged, and the media was being bought off, and made or outrage known, then, we probably could have stopped it. Now, we have pretty much no influence at all. Which is why these politicians have become so emboldened to do whatever they please. And why they can get away with deliberately destroying our whole system of balanced government, to get what they want, and what their paying patrons want.

There are moments when the people seem to still have influence. The complete destruction of Obamacare didn't happen because Republicans didn't want to face 10's of millions of voters who lost their health insurance because of their actions. We recently saw the reversal of policies dealing with families being separated at the US border. There are glimmers of hope here and there.

They don't care what we think. And they don't care what we do, if they know we can do nothing to stop them. In the end, it comes down to force. And for the people to enforce their will, they have to unite. So long as the dictators can keep us divided against each other, they can continue to do what they please.

They tend to care when they are voted out of office, but as you say we may be electing someone else with selective deafness when they are replaced.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

And that's why we have the Amendments. Human rights evolve within time and culture. To protect individual rights the Constitution protects the minority, even of one, from the tyranny of the majority.

There is also a high bar that has to be met in order to change the US Constitution which is a good thing. As US citizens we could throw out anything in the US Constitution if there were enough votes, so the majority can still be tyrannical, but I think most citizens see the value in protecting the rights of the minority because you never know when you may be in the minority.

 

[Revoltingest]

Lol...good enough. Wasn't making any judgements about your post, but...(that horrible word)...I think some can use an argument of both sides being equally bad on general terms to avoid taking a stand on specific issues.

For example, regardless of history or party position, I agree with marriage equality. If Dems support it then I support them. If Republicans support it, then I support them. If neither support it, then I'll not support either.

But what I won't do is watch my favourite party take a position and then follow suit.

Equality is so too often inferred.
It doesn't even matter when it's there.

 

[PureX]

The obvious solution is to run for office or become a journalist if you think it can be done better.

Also, in what way do you think the media has been bought off? I think the larger problem is that the media depends on advertisements for income which leads to sensationalism, but I don't see most journalists writing flattering stories in exchange for cash from the person they are writing about.

Because we have rigged the electoral system so that candidates have to spend enormous amounts of money to run a campaign, we have ensured that only the wealthy, or those who run on behalf of the wealthy, can stage a campaign. And there are plenty of journalists, already. The problem is that the news outlets they work for are not in business to collect and disseminate news, they are in the business to make money. The news is just a ploy to get eyes and ears on the advertising because it's by selling advertising that they make money. And over time, they have realized that phony news, and pandering op-eds on news events do that better than real news does. Also, big wealthy corporations know that if they spend enough money on advertising, the news outlets getting all that money will not be inclined to report things they don't want reported. So real journalists have no one to work for. Or they have to report only on the cheap, easy, sensational news that keeps those eyes and ears on the advertising and the corporate elite buying that ad-time.

Greed destroys everything it touches, and greed has totally infected our business, government, and news endeavors. They become more and more dysfunctional every year, and our whole society and culture suffers as a result.

There are moments when the people seem to still have influence. The complete destruction of Obamacare didn't happen because Republicans didn't want to face 10's of millions of voters who lost their health insurance because of their actions.

It's still happening as you write; as the republicans are gutting funding to medicaid and medicare and other social programs to try and cover the skyrocketing debt due to their tax cuts for their rich cronies. They have never stopped trying, and each time they try they gain more and more inroads.

We recently saw the reversal of policies dealing with families being separated at the US border. There are glimmers of hope here and there.

They smelled a unified reaction against it, and backed off (it was also a great smokescreen for gutting medicaid and medicare and social security, which may well have been it's only real purpose to begin with). The people have always had the power. But they have to act together to exercise it. Right now, the media is making it's money by constantly dividing us against each other. Outrage and righteous indignation sells ad-time. The politicians keep us divided against each other because it's the only way their horrible corrupt candidates can win elections. And the moneyed elites are keeping us divided against each other so we won't see what they're doing to us, and turn on them.

And all three are doing it together, very successfully. While we're still basically all blaming each other for everything, and thereby doing nothing to stop the people who really are doing it to us.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

The problem is that the news outlets they work for are not in business to collect and disseminate news, they are in the business to make money. The news is just a ploy to get eyes and ears on the advertising because it's by selling advertising that they make money. And over time, they have realized that phony news, and pandering op-eds on news events do that better than real news does.

Ask Dan Rather how that worked out for him. Journalists are fired or suspended for running fake stories. It can end their careers, at least at respectable outlets (i.e. not Fox News).

Also, big wealthy corporations know that if they spend enough money on advertising, the news outlets getting all that money will not be inclined to report things they don't want reported. So real journalists have no one to work for. Or they have to report only on the cheap, easy, sensational news that keeps those eyes and ears on the advertising and the corporate elite buying that ad-time.

There are plenty of news agencies that still report about the dangers of fossil fuel use and global warming despite the ad dollars from fossil fuel companies.

Greed destroys everything it touches, and greed has totally infected our business, government, and news endeavors. They become more and more dysfunctional every year, and our whole society and culture suffers as a result.
It's still happening as you write; as the republicans are gutting funding to medicaid and medicare and other social programs to try and cover the skyrocketing debt due to their tax cuts for their rich cronies. They have never stopped trying, and each time they try they gain more and more inroads.
They smelled a unified reaction against it, and backed off (it was also a great smokescreen for gutting medicaid and medicare and social security, which may well have been it's only real purpose to begin with). The people have always had the power. But they have to act together to exercise it. Right now, the media is making it's money by constantly dividing us against each other. Outrage and righteous indignation sells ad-time. The politicians keep us divided against each other because it's the only way their horrible corrupt candidates can win elections. And the moneyed elites are keeping us divided against each other so we won't see what they're doing to us, and turn on them.

And all three are doing it together, very successfully. While we're still basically all blaming each other for everything, and thereby doing nothing to stop the people who really are doing it to us.

What still amazes me is that people from the middle and lower class still vote for Republicans even after they show us day after day that they aren't looking out for them.

 

[Shaul]

Y'know, Cassandra was never believed in her predictions.

But she was always correct.

In this case, though, I hope "Cassandra" is only partly correct.

Hence my quote marks. pearl isn’t a genuine Cassandra because the prophecies are even true.

 

[PureX]

Ask Dan Rather how that worked out for him. Journalists are fired or suspended for running fake stories. It can end their careers, at least at respectable outlets (i.e. not Fox News).

One instance does not a trend, make. Neither does two in a ten year period. If you have to reach THAT FAR to claim an antithetical, it basically just ends up proving the original point.

There are plenty of news agencies that still report about the dangers of fossil fuel use and global warming despite the ad dollars from fossil fuel companies.

The truth just gets lost in the 'sea of lies', now. When someone is "reporting" whatever someone else wants to believe is news, everyone thinks they know what's going on, and no one really does.

What still amazes me is that people from the middle and lower class still vote for Republicans even after they show us day after day that they aren't looking out for them.

In the reality created and pushed by their "news" sources, it makes sense. Dishonesty has consequences. Especially when it becomes systemic.